As of right now the 3 highest rated locks clearly stated that they aint playing the class due to glaring problems (that were post hundreds of times in both EU and US forums).
Besides them, players like cdew and venruki said that locks are a joke at 120 (yes im not talking about pre patch im talking about the expansion itself).
Problems across the specs:
-Demonic circle not being baseline
-Mana
-Lack of slow
-0 tankyness and damage reduction (demo is better in this field)
-Lack of utility overall
There are problems within each spec ON top of this.
Demo:
-Too much hardcasting
Destru:
-Damage reliant on CB wich means vs good teams will be easy to shut you down (a slow/mobility could maybe fix this)
-Lack of backlash (like in legion) from getting hit
Affliction:
-Of all the 3 its the squichiest (demo has SL and destru has mastery damage reduction)
-Too much hardcasting (ua and haunt if you talent)
-Burst is dispellable and has more casting in it that any other class (Fmage= 1 instant+1cast, sp is instant with procs, ele+boomie are instant etc etc)
-No dot protection
-Too reliant on Darkglare and deathbolt wich aint viable in pvp (swap dark soul as baseline cd and keep darkglare as talent if you want)
-Dot duration is too low
-Filler damage (shadowbolt) being impossible to use in arena while Drain life ooms you.
To add more, i have try all spec for dungeon and have done a lot of pvp in affli.
Demono :
Demono is ok for AOE, by ok i mean i fell like im doing my part. Single target dps Demono is garbage for like 1.5* more button to press than 80% of other class/spec. U work more but ur dps is still trash.
Affli :
Affli is super garbage in aoe, the only time ur doing ur part on aoe is when singularity is up, when its not and other dps with you have at least decent aoe ur useless. The only way atm for a affli to shine in aoe is if everyone with you is trash, then u have time to ramp up.
Affli single target is rly strong, but honestly, i have seen some rogue/dh compet with me in single target even if i stay first there are not so far away, meanwhile in the same time those class do very insane damage in aoe.
Destro :
Destro is all around trash and frustrating, aoe bad, single bad, very poor ability to dps when mooving, everything is bad about destro. Cast a 3sec chaos bolt for so little damage is depressing.
Survivability :
U better avoid everything as lock because we have poor soak ability, and for pvp there is no burst we can tank, even with all defensive ability on, our only way to survive a burst is to completly avoid damage. Because of that Demonic Circle is mandatory in many many situation and we will still die soon after because melee on us got a 100% uptime dps and we have 0 tankiness.
Atm the only thing lock would be in a good spot is Raid Boss if there is not too many add. Sadly the only thing to do a bit challenging atm is mythic0 and we are not desired at all.
Honestly, i play demo because i want to play a class with 3 dps spec, i like dps, its the only thing i like to do, and what i exept with a 3 dps spec class is that at least one is all around a bit above average.
Demo life in wow atm is log on, do ur daily and u can logoff for the day. Still 2 week to go like that.
Demono :
Demono is ok for AOE, by ok i mean i fell like im doing my part. Single target dps Demono is garbage for like 1.5* more button to press than 80% of other class/spec. U work more but ur dps is still trash.
Affli :
Affli is super garbage in aoe, the only time ur doing ur part on aoe is when singularity is up, when its not and other dps with you have at least decent aoe ur useless. The only way atm for a affli to shine in aoe is if everyone with you is trash, then u have time to ramp up.
Affli single target is rly strong, but honestly, i have seen some rogue/dh compet with me in single target even if i stay first there are not so far away, meanwhile in the same time those class do very insane damage in aoe.
Destro :
Destro is all around trash and frustrating, aoe bad, single bad, very poor ability to dps when mooving, everything is bad about destro. Cast a 3sec chaos bolt for so little damage is depressing.
Survivability :
U better avoid everything as lock because we have poor soak ability, and for pvp there is no burst we can tank, even with all defensive ability on, our only way to survive a burst is to completly avoid damage. Because of that Demonic Circle is mandatory in many many situation and we will still die soon after because melee on us got a 100% uptime dps and we have 0 tankiness.
Atm the only thing lock would be in a good spot is Raid Boss if there is not too many add. Sadly the only thing to do a bit challenging atm is mythic0 and we are not desired at all.
Honestly, i play demo because i want to play a class with 3 dps spec, i like dps, its the only thing i like to do, and what i exept with a 3 dps spec class is that at least one is all around a bit above average.
Demo life in wow atm is log on, do ur daily and u can logoff for the day. Still 2 week to go like that.
Bring back Mop/Wod Demo
Blizzz fix the warlock please...
Blizzard pleas.
Warlock affliction does not have aoe because seed of corruption applay only corruption and i must one by one targeting mob and apply main dot Agony pleas change this them seed of corruption apply 2 dots agony and corruption or with talent Sow the Seeds apply 3 dots agony corruption and Siphon Life on all mobs. Agony must generatie more soul shard because they are still missing and i can't do dps becouse i can't apply unstable affliction and desthbolt don't do damage. Agony corruption unstable affliction siphon life must do more damage. Haunt should increases dame 20% and apply on all targets.
Warlock affliction does not have aoe because seed of corruption applay only corruption and i must one by one targeting mob and apply main dot Agony pleas change this them seed of corruption apply 2 dots agony and corruption or with talent Sow the Seeds apply 3 dots agony corruption and Siphon Life on all mobs. Agony must generatie more soul shard because they are still missing and i can't do dps becouse i can't apply unstable affliction and desthbolt don't do damage. Agony corruption unstable affliction siphon life must do more damage. Haunt should increases dame 20% and apply on all targets.
So I see a lot of good feedback for Blizzard on the forum posts.
But I wonder if they will act on it or not, in a timeley manner?
I would describe myself as a capable raider, doing most mythic raids and high keys on multiple characters each expansion (since Vanilla).
If they do not for the first 1-2 raids, i need to re-roll to a more competitive class - I do not want to be the burden, slowing down the guild progression, and not be invited to higher mythic plus keys.
Do you guys think they will work on it or not?
Not talking only talking about the damage tweaks, but also the general feel of the classes!
I, myself was quite fast at getting 340 ilvl, and now we are running/training the dungeons for when M+ comes out.
So for what I have experienced sofar in BFA:
Affliction
Single target I feel the rotation works quite well.
However sometimes I need to decide on pooling shards for deathbolt, or keeping up 1 UA on the target.
Sould I not be able to keep one UA on target, while pooling shards? (would make it feel ALOT better)
Two target cleavee it works okay - however I cant pool enough shards for deathbolt while keeping up 2 Unstable Afflictions.
It feels super unsatisfying using shadowbolt while 2 target cleaving.
Often I find myself cursing at agony due to it slow shard generation.
With 3-4 target cleave, I am semi starved on shards.
It is super stressfull, you need agony on all targets, and if not in luck, apply corruption manually, due to the short detonation range of seed.
Still on 3-4 target cleave, i find myslef using deathbolt and shadowbolt, due to the slow shard generation.
5+ (AoE) I need to maintain agony on 4+ targets to "spam" seed. In my oppinion I should be ignoring which targets I put my agony on (even if I loose the stacks), since it should be more important getting seeds out at this point. But with the current shard generation and low seed damage, i need to re-agonly the excact same target, also if we have 10 mobs to do competitive dps.
The closer my fellow raiders get to my gear level, I get more and more destroyed on the meters.
Destro and Demo is just unusable. Affliction is a bit behind, when I have all my cooldowns ready.
Demo
Around 65% of the damage affliction can do with 340 gear.
Destro
Around 50% of the damage affliction can do with 340 gear.
I'll see if I can do more detailed feedback on demo and destro later this week.
But I wonder if they will act on it or not, in a timeley manner?
I would describe myself as a capable raider, doing most mythic raids and high keys on multiple characters each expansion (since Vanilla).
If they do not for the first 1-2 raids, i need to re-roll to a more competitive class - I do not want to be the burden, slowing down the guild progression, and not be invited to higher mythic plus keys.
Do you guys think they will work on it or not?
Not talking only talking about the damage tweaks, but also the general feel of the classes!
I, myself was quite fast at getting 340 ilvl, and now we are running/training the dungeons for when M+ comes out.
So for what I have experienced sofar in BFA:
Affliction
Single target I feel the rotation works quite well.
However sometimes I need to decide on pooling shards for deathbolt, or keeping up 1 UA on the target.
Sould I not be able to keep one UA on target, while pooling shards? (would make it feel ALOT better)
Two target cleavee it works okay - however I cant pool enough shards for deathbolt while keeping up 2 Unstable Afflictions.
It feels super unsatisfying using shadowbolt while 2 target cleaving.
Often I find myself cursing at agony due to it slow shard generation.
With 3-4 target cleave, I am semi starved on shards.
It is super stressfull, you need agony on all targets, and if not in luck, apply corruption manually, due to the short detonation range of seed.
Still on 3-4 target cleave, i find myslef using deathbolt and shadowbolt, due to the slow shard generation.
5+ (AoE) I need to maintain agony on 4+ targets to "spam" seed. In my oppinion I should be ignoring which targets I put my agony on (even if I loose the stacks), since it should be more important getting seeds out at this point. But with the current shard generation and low seed damage, i need to re-agonly the excact same target, also if we have 10 mobs to do competitive dps.
The closer my fellow raiders get to my gear level, I get more and more destroyed on the meters.
Destro and Demo is just unusable. Affliction is a bit behind, when I have all my cooldowns ready.
Demo
Around 65% of the damage affliction can do with 340 gear.
Destro
Around 50% of the damage affliction can do with 340 gear.
I'll see if I can do more detailed feedback on demo and destro later this week.
Bring back Mop/Wod Demo
Affliction main.
Two things:
1: Slightly increase our AOE capability.
2: Let me spec Drain Soul and Deathbolt together (whilst keeping Haunt!). DS is my preferred play style but I’d like the additional burst that Deathbolt brings.
Two things:
1: Slightly increase our AOE capability.
2: Let me spec Drain Soul and Deathbolt together (whilst keeping Haunt!). DS is my preferred play style but I’d like the additional burst that Deathbolt brings.
29/08/2018 18:59Posted by ÁjszmenBring back Mop/Wod Demo
Bring back wod demo and buff us then i shut up.
Affliction main.
Two things:
1: Slightly increase our AOE capability.
2: Let me spec Drain Soul and Deathbolt together (whilst keeping Haunt!). DS is my preferred play style but I’d like the additional burst that Deathbolt brings.
Two things:
1: Slightly increase our AOE capability.
2: Let me spec Drain Soul and Deathbolt together (whilst keeping Haunt!). DS is my preferred play style but I’d like the additional burst that Deathbolt brings.
I must agree here with Flintty. During these past days, I did a bit of mythic+ and none of the warlock specs come even close to doing enough AoE. Lightforged Dranei racial on warriors outdpses me on trash in mythic plus.
1: Increase AoE capabilities. My suggestion is buffing the 60 row or adding an ability like restoration druids Essence of G'Hanir just for dots. Make it a short CD that increases the dot tick rate of Agony, Corruption and Siphon life for a short time. For example, you're doing a pack, you've dotted up all the mobs and you pop the ability and you're doing damage. Now, you're doing no damage even if you're specced into Creeping Death.
2: You need to remove cast time from Shadowfury. While I still do not understand why is it there in the first place, the problem with it is that when you need to cast it, either the player/mob has already cast the ability you wanted to stop.
3: Remove Shadow bolt or actually make some interaction with other spells. I really don't want to sit and hard cast a spell that is basically nothing, has no use in PvP nor PvE and is there as a filler. I personally don't like it and many other players don't. I have yet to hear anyone who likes it.
4: Reduce the cost of Burning Rush or increase our survivability. We no longer have health to spare.
5: Replace Nightfall, Shadow Embrace and Grimoire of Sacrifice. They're useless in every situation and I do not see you making encounters ever where they will. Drain Soul should be baseline and as I do understand that many people do not like playing it, I'd much rather have Drain Soul than Shadow Bolt as when you have to move you do not lose 100% of the damage.
Personal opinion:
You have created so many dungeons to be melee friendly that it's impossible, while yes, I do understand that the casters have advantage over them from being far away, that is not reflected anywhere. I enjoy mythic plus a lot and that is my favorite pastime and being unable to participate in higher content currently because of the restrictions of what I am playing are not enjoyable. Affliction Warlocks are considered mobile, but by who? You actually do considerably less and while doing less in the first place, it is, to say the least, frustrating. I really hope to hear from you and what have you decided to do.
So unfriendly environment in dungeons coupled with my dps has made me quite sad these past few days and I really don't want to hear "Whoah you burst a lot." or "Affliction broken", just because I can do amazing burst on single target once every three minutes.
Kind regards,
Korkax
1: Increase AoE capabilities. My suggestion is buffing the 60 row or adding an ability like restoration druids Essence of G'Hanir just for dots. Make it a short CD that increases the dot tick rate of Agony, Corruption and Siphon life for a short time. For example, you're doing a pack, you've dotted up all the mobs and you pop the ability and you're doing damage. Now, you're doing no damage even if you're specced into Creeping Death.
2: You need to remove cast time from Shadowfury. While I still do not understand why is it there in the first place, the problem with it is that when you need to cast it, either the player/mob has already cast the ability you wanted to stop.
3: Remove Shadow bolt or actually make some interaction with other spells. I really don't want to sit and hard cast a spell that is basically nothing, has no use in PvP nor PvE and is there as a filler. I personally don't like it and many other players don't. I have yet to hear anyone who likes it.
4: Reduce the cost of Burning Rush or increase our survivability. We no longer have health to spare.
5: Replace Nightfall, Shadow Embrace and Grimoire of Sacrifice. They're useless in every situation and I do not see you making encounters ever where they will. Drain Soul should be baseline and as I do understand that many people do not like playing it, I'd much rather have Drain Soul than Shadow Bolt as when you have to move you do not lose 100% of the damage.
Personal opinion:
You have created so many dungeons to be melee friendly that it's impossible, while yes, I do understand that the casters have advantage over them from being far away, that is not reflected anywhere. I enjoy mythic plus a lot and that is my favorite pastime and being unable to participate in higher content currently because of the restrictions of what I am playing are not enjoyable. Affliction Warlocks are considered mobile, but by who? You actually do considerably less and while doing less in the first place, it is, to say the least, frustrating. I really hope to hear from you and what have you decided to do.
So unfriendly environment in dungeons coupled with my dps has made me quite sad these past few days and I really don't want to hear "Whoah you burst a lot." or "Affliction broken", just because I can do amazing burst on single target once every three minutes.
Kind regards,
Korkax
We just need more mobility or slow (instant shadowfury) in pvp, cant do anything againts melees in arena. The ladder represent there is no warlocks in 2v2 atm, just 1-2.
Affliction:
Shadowfury - Should be instant
Demonic Circle - Should be a base spell not a talent
Demon Skin - Needs a Buff (or give us Soul link for all specs)
Seed of Corruption - Buff up dmg and reduce casting time (only in PvE)
PvP = No surv, lack of mobility (trained hard by melee classes, takes too long to setup proper dmg)
PvE = Totaly good apart from AoE dmg, it needs a small buff and reducing a cast time of SoC would solve the problem as it's hard to get into the Mythic+ grp even with good gear.
Shadowfury - Should be instant
Demonic Circle - Should be a base spell not a talent
Demon Skin - Needs a Buff (or give us Soul link for all specs)
Seed of Corruption - Buff up dmg and reduce casting time (only in PvE)
PvP = No surv, lack of mobility (trained hard by melee classes, takes too long to setup proper dmg)
PvE = Totaly good apart from AoE dmg, it needs a small buff and reducing a cast time of SoC would solve the problem as it's hard to get into the Mythic+ grp even with good gear.
Hello everyone!
Introducing myself: (skip if not interested)
I am a dedicated arena player since the start of Burning Crusade. I played multiple classes over the years and got a lot of insight into every spec of the game. I managed to hit 2828 as my highest rating with WLS at the end of MoP, as a Warrior. After that I put less effort into Arena because the class design of Arms Warrior went in a wrong direction for me, becoming one-dimensional. The class I ended up with having the most fun on was Warlock. I liked playing with Warlocks before and I always enjoyed the class design and fantasy behind it.
I am not going to give one-sided feedback, I will do my best to be objective and take into account how possible changes may affect other classes in PvP and my ultimate aim is to have a balanced, competitive arena environment with a lot of comp variety.
That said, I hope you approach my Warlock specific feedback as objective. Don’t think about it from only your classes point of view but think about how that may affect other classes as well.
Feedback and Approach:
This feedback is only covering the Affliction Specialization.
In the past, Warlock have always been a stationary, tanky caster with a toolkit that allowed high impact when reading situations properly and having good awareness. Your goal was to decelerate the enemy team and mitigate as much burst as possible. Warlock games usually lasted longer, because you tried to out-sustain other teams via good defensive play and rot them down, draining the healers mana pool or overwhelming them by pure AoE pressure. The chance of winning increased the longer a match went on.
On the flipside, the class always had a hard time against melee cleaves and if you weren’t able to kite properly, had bad positioning or used a CD at the wrong time, you just fell over.
Considering what the class identity once was, we lost most of it due to the pruning. I will now present possible solutions that could not only bring the unique Warlock identity back but might be very effective ways to address the issues we are currently suffering.
Possible Solutions
Look at the solutions one by one, I don’t say we should get everything back but I will list all abilities that defined Warlock and had great impact, matching the class fantasy just perfectly.
Soul Link: for 20% passive damage reduction we need due to the lack of mobility.
Connecting to a Warlock is easy for almost every class. You can safe your mobility spells like Charge and Shadowstep until Warlocks use their Demonic Circle: Teleport. The Circle itself is usually positioned behind a pillar right in front of the starting room of your team, where your healer should be positioned. You can barely gain more distance than that because your circle is always at one end of the Arena and only a few are big enough to run further away once you teleported. Usually you stay behind the pillar to catch a heal and after a second or two the enemies will reconnect. Most good Warlocks try to run sideways then to gain some distance from the healer so melees can’t focus kick or CC him easily without using a gapcloser. Due to that high uptime we need a passive damage reduction.
Some people argued that it would be the right way to not buff Warlock defense but nerf Melees, so Warlocks can survive.
And here comes the objective part I was talking about: If you nerf melees to a level where Warlocks (with no passive damage reduction and high uptime) can survive the paintrain, how would they ever be able to kill classes that can gain distance, like Mages? If you would nerf Melees to a point where the weakest class can survive them, they would never be able to kill stronger classes (assuming same levels of skill).
(need to split into two posts because exceeding the character limit of 5,000)
Introducing myself: (skip if not interested)
I am a dedicated arena player since the start of Burning Crusade. I played multiple classes over the years and got a lot of insight into every spec of the game. I managed to hit 2828 as my highest rating with WLS at the end of MoP, as a Warrior. After that I put less effort into Arena because the class design of Arms Warrior went in a wrong direction for me, becoming one-dimensional. The class I ended up with having the most fun on was Warlock. I liked playing with Warlocks before and I always enjoyed the class design and fantasy behind it.
I am not going to give one-sided feedback, I will do my best to be objective and take into account how possible changes may affect other classes in PvP and my ultimate aim is to have a balanced, competitive arena environment with a lot of comp variety.
That said, I hope you approach my Warlock specific feedback as objective. Don’t think about it from only your classes point of view but think about how that may affect other classes as well.
Feedback and Approach:
This feedback is only covering the Affliction Specialization.
In the past, Warlock have always been a stationary, tanky caster with a toolkit that allowed high impact when reading situations properly and having good awareness. Your goal was to decelerate the enemy team and mitigate as much burst as possible. Warlock games usually lasted longer, because you tried to out-sustain other teams via good defensive play and rot them down, draining the healers mana pool or overwhelming them by pure AoE pressure. The chance of winning increased the longer a match went on.
On the flipside, the class always had a hard time against melee cleaves and if you weren’t able to kite properly, had bad positioning or used a CD at the wrong time, you just fell over.
Considering what the class identity once was, we lost most of it due to the pruning. I will now present possible solutions that could not only bring the unique Warlock identity back but might be very effective ways to address the issues we are currently suffering.
Possible Solutions
Look at the solutions one by one, I don’t say we should get everything back but I will list all abilities that defined Warlock and had great impact, matching the class fantasy just perfectly.
Soul Link: for 20% passive damage reduction we need due to the lack of mobility.
Connecting to a Warlock is easy for almost every class. You can safe your mobility spells like Charge and Shadowstep until Warlocks use their Demonic Circle: Teleport. The Circle itself is usually positioned behind a pillar right in front of the starting room of your team, where your healer should be positioned. You can barely gain more distance than that because your circle is always at one end of the Arena and only a few are big enough to run further away once you teleported. Usually you stay behind the pillar to catch a heal and after a second or two the enemies will reconnect. Most good Warlocks try to run sideways then to gain some distance from the healer so melees can’t focus kick or CC him easily without using a gapcloser. Due to that high uptime we need a passive damage reduction.
Some people argued that it would be the right way to not buff Warlock defense but nerf Melees, so Warlocks can survive.
And here comes the objective part I was talking about: If you nerf melees to a level where Warlocks (with no passive damage reduction and high uptime) can survive the paintrain, how would they ever be able to kill classes that can gain distance, like Mages? If you would nerf Melees to a point where the weakest class can survive them, they would never be able to kill stronger classes (assuming same levels of skill).
(need to split into two posts because exceeding the character limit of 5,000)
Fel/Demon Armor: for giving us a choice.
It is fun to use self buffs for different situations. Fel Armor for some Intellect and 0.5% selfheal each second and for some self-sustain and Demon Armor for armor and 15% more healing taken against heavy melee cleaves where the healer needs to pump tons of hps into us.
Not much to say, having the choice in different situations is always a great feeling. Can you go with the offensive Fel Armor for a little more damage or do you need to use Demon Armor for the defense? Make your own decision.
/Update 16.09: Because of the feedback below I would like to share the idea of just making it a passive so we avoid unpruning and new spells appearing.
Death Coil: should be baseline to give some short instant CC when we need it.
It was always the Key for good swaps, following a stun of your melee with a 3 sec Death Coil or using it when you are about to die to gain a little room to breathe.
/Update 18.09: Death Coil should stay in the 75 row as it is right now but Demonic Circle should be upgraded to be baseline and the the empty spot could be replaced by Howl of Terror, giving us the opportunity to chose between reduced shadowfury cooldown, Mortal Coil, Howl of Terror.
Shadowflame: 4 sec slow for 70% in a frontal cone. 30 sec cooldown. We could use that before porting to not have everyone in our face again a second later.
Warlock would probably be too annoying having a passive slow on corruption or something like that. Nevertheless, it would be really helpful to have a short slow like Shadowflame that we can use before teleporting so we actually win just a few seconds.
/Update 16.09: Regarding the feedback below about unpruning, you could as well add a passive AoE on our Demonic Circle: Teleport, that creates a shadowwave around us when teleporting, slowing enemies in 10y range for 70% for 4 seconds.
Soul Swap: Using a Soul Shard to inhale all dots with the current duration left and be able to exhale them for 10 seconds on another target.
The timeframe where we can cast UAs are pretty rare while getting tunneled. Most of the time you need to run away or fake kicks. On higher levels people are not faked that easily. They start holding kicks and its kind of a huge mind game. You basically end up faking multiple times until you have to refresh dots or run/teleport away to not die. Faking two melees and maybe a Restoshaman holding his Windshear for the last line of interrupt might lead to a scenario where you can barely get casts off a whole game. That said, Soul Swap would actually allow us to get one UA cast off and use two other Soul Shards to spread it. This would prevent us sitting on 5 Shards, overcapping the whole game while fakecasting and running away. It feels really bad to never be able to use your main resource of damage and I think this would be a great solution.
/NEW 20.09 - Agony half gcd: We once had curses on half a global cooldown. That would make the very slow gameplay of affliction way more enjoyable right now. Shamans, Druids and Mages can dispel curses and we have to use a global and wait for it to stack up again to be relevant. Dotting multiple targets and keeping the dots up takes most of our time in 3v3 as well as in PvE on AoE fights. So making curses half a global cooldown would make things feel way better for every scenario in the game.
Goodbye
Thanks to everyone who took the time reading my Feedback. It’s not about being strong or weak, it’s about playing classes that feel great. Getting trained to the ground and not having a single way to answer is a scenario we face pretty often right now and that is definitely not something you want to experience as a player. Balancing is a hard task and changing one class can always lead to some kind of butterfly effect, but who else would you trust to make this happen if not our Devs, with years of experience, at the start of a new expansion when everything is possible.
Much love,
Wicked
PS: More feedback and great ideas from other players can be found here
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17623892754
It is fun to use self buffs for different situations. Fel Armor for some Intellect and 0.5% selfheal each second and for some self-sustain and Demon Armor for armor and 15% more healing taken against heavy melee cleaves where the healer needs to pump tons of hps into us.
Not much to say, having the choice in different situations is always a great feeling. Can you go with the offensive Fel Armor for a little more damage or do you need to use Demon Armor for the defense? Make your own decision.
/Update 16.09: Because of the feedback below I would like to share the idea of just making it a passive so we avoid unpruning and new spells appearing.
Death Coil: should be baseline to give some short instant CC when we need it.
It was always the Key for good swaps, following a stun of your melee with a 3 sec Death Coil or using it when you are about to die to gain a little room to breathe.
/Update 18.09: Death Coil should stay in the 75 row as it is right now but Demonic Circle should be upgraded to be baseline and the the empty spot could be replaced by Howl of Terror, giving us the opportunity to chose between reduced shadowfury cooldown, Mortal Coil, Howl of Terror.
Shadowflame: 4 sec slow for 70% in a frontal cone. 30 sec cooldown. We could use that before porting to not have everyone in our face again a second later.
Warlock would probably be too annoying having a passive slow on corruption or something like that. Nevertheless, it would be really helpful to have a short slow like Shadowflame that we can use before teleporting so we actually win just a few seconds.
/Update 16.09: Regarding the feedback below about unpruning, you could as well add a passive AoE on our Demonic Circle: Teleport, that creates a shadowwave around us when teleporting, slowing enemies in 10y range for 70% for 4 seconds.
Soul Swap: Using a Soul Shard to inhale all dots with the current duration left and be able to exhale them for 10 seconds on another target.
The timeframe where we can cast UAs are pretty rare while getting tunneled. Most of the time you need to run away or fake kicks. On higher levels people are not faked that easily. They start holding kicks and its kind of a huge mind game. You basically end up faking multiple times until you have to refresh dots or run/teleport away to not die. Faking two melees and maybe a Restoshaman holding his Windshear for the last line of interrupt might lead to a scenario where you can barely get casts off a whole game. That said, Soul Swap would actually allow us to get one UA cast off and use two other Soul Shards to spread it. This would prevent us sitting on 5 Shards, overcapping the whole game while fakecasting and running away. It feels really bad to never be able to use your main resource of damage and I think this would be a great solution.
/NEW 20.09 - Agony half gcd: We once had curses on half a global cooldown. That would make the very slow gameplay of affliction way more enjoyable right now. Shamans, Druids and Mages can dispel curses and we have to use a global and wait for it to stack up again to be relevant. Dotting multiple targets and keeping the dots up takes most of our time in 3v3 as well as in PvE on AoE fights. So making curses half a global cooldown would make things feel way better for every scenario in the game.
Goodbye
Thanks to everyone who took the time reading my Feedback. It’s not about being strong or weak, it’s about playing classes that feel great. Getting trained to the ground and not having a single way to answer is a scenario we face pretty often right now and that is definitely not something you want to experience as a player. Balancing is a hard task and changing one class can always lead to some kind of butterfly effect, but who else would you trust to make this happen if not our Devs, with years of experience, at the start of a new expansion when everything is possible.
Much love,
Wicked
PS: More feedback and great ideas from other players can be found here
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17623892754
Added the idea to make Agony half a GCD because it would speed the super slow gameplay of affliction up a bit and getting all your dots dispelled would no longer hurt that much.
This would fit PvE perfectly as well because it feels really slow to dot mob after mob in a trashpack or in an AoE Bossfight. Most things die when your Agony just reached maximum stacks.
This would fit PvE perfectly as well because it feels really slow to dot mob after mob in a trashpack or in an AoE Bossfight. Most things die when your Agony just reached maximum stacks.
So much great feedback here, really hope someone on blizz reads this. Ill add my thoughts:
Malefic Grasp mop version is sorely missed. Shadowbolt is slow, lacks depth, and most importantly has zero chance to get through in pvp. In mop and wod Malefic Grasp was a drain that also increased dot tick rate (like tier 100 talent today). This made things way more interesting because...
- You could do short casts and still get some dmg
-It shifted the timing on single target dots which made rotation less predictable, while not random.
It gave the rotation a single target dmg modifier so dots could be kept in check for cleave, (though that doesnt seem to be a big issue now anyway).
A nuke version could make dots instantly deal say 3 secs of their dmg (less for ua) when hit, but this would still be impossible in pvp for little reason.
PVP Stuff others mentioned but i still wanna reiterate:
All our tools to spend shards without casting were taken away. Soulburn Soulswap from mop, casting circle (nerfed to uselessness) and instant seed of corruption honor talent, pruned for no reason at all. Affliction in arena right now is sitting on 5 shards praying the enemy melee go on someone else so you can actually use your resources. This is unfun, underpowered, and makes no sense on a class with a single spell school. The whole point of instant spenders/casting circle is to do less dmg, but give you a choice to output atleast some instead of sitting there refreshing dots.
a LOT of our defensive power was taken away since mop (and every expansion since) with no return. Whilist some of it was overabundant cc that was prevalent for all classes at that expansion, the rest was essential to be able to survive melee, whos mobility skyrocketed in legion:
-Baseline demonic circle and death coil. Circle at the very list should be made baseline with how mobile melee became.
-Soul link baseline for non demo speccs.
-Healthstone being a full heal.
-Healthstone heal from allies helping warlock.
-Templates giving high versatility and armor which are unobtainable as cloth wearers today
-Drain life heal nerf after legion (while clearly overpowered in 1v1 and pve, in 3v3 arena it gave us a way to sustain behind pillars if heal couldnt catch up to gateway ports).
Its fine to not bring all of this back, but a lot of it has to return, or else we'll stay as defunct mages with no blink nor freeze nor poly.
Lastly, in pve, while overall a fun class to play, espescially in high m+ keys, some tools that just made the specc feel better were pruned.
Soul swap gave us the ability to take dots from a dying target and reapply them to a new one, rewarding attenttion and skill. Soulburn:soulswap let us apply our baseline dots instantly at the cost of two soulshards, sacrificing dmg efficency for quicker ramp. These two tools made the specc feel much funner to play while still not approaching burstiness. It didnt eliminate weakness, but simply made it feel better.
Malefic Grasp mop version is sorely missed. Shadowbolt is slow, lacks depth, and most importantly has zero chance to get through in pvp. In mop and wod Malefic Grasp was a drain that also increased dot tick rate (like tier 100 talent today). This made things way more interesting because...
- You could do short casts and still get some dmg
-It shifted the timing on single target dots which made rotation less predictable, while not random.
It gave the rotation a single target dmg modifier so dots could be kept in check for cleave, (though that doesnt seem to be a big issue now anyway).
A nuke version could make dots instantly deal say 3 secs of their dmg (less for ua) when hit, but this would still be impossible in pvp for little reason.
PVP Stuff others mentioned but i still wanna reiterate:
All our tools to spend shards without casting were taken away. Soulburn Soulswap from mop, casting circle (nerfed to uselessness) and instant seed of corruption honor talent, pruned for no reason at all. Affliction in arena right now is sitting on 5 shards praying the enemy melee go on someone else so you can actually use your resources. This is unfun, underpowered, and makes no sense on a class with a single spell school. The whole point of instant spenders/casting circle is to do less dmg, but give you a choice to output atleast some instead of sitting there refreshing dots.
a LOT of our defensive power was taken away since mop (and every expansion since) with no return. Whilist some of it was overabundant cc that was prevalent for all classes at that expansion, the rest was essential to be able to survive melee, whos mobility skyrocketed in legion:
-Baseline demonic circle and death coil. Circle at the very list should be made baseline with how mobile melee became.
-Soul link baseline for non demo speccs.
-Healthstone being a full heal.
-Healthstone heal from allies helping warlock.
-Templates giving high versatility and armor which are unobtainable as cloth wearers today
-Drain life heal nerf after legion (while clearly overpowered in 1v1 and pve, in 3v3 arena it gave us a way to sustain behind pillars if heal couldnt catch up to gateway ports).
Its fine to not bring all of this back, but a lot of it has to return, or else we'll stay as defunct mages with no blink nor freeze nor poly.
Lastly, in pve, while overall a fun class to play, espescially in high m+ keys, some tools that just made the specc feel better were pruned.
Soul swap gave us the ability to take dots from a dying target and reapply them to a new one, rewarding attenttion and skill. Soulburn:soulswap let us apply our baseline dots instantly at the cost of two soulshards, sacrificing dmg efficency for quicker ramp. These two tools made the specc feel much funner to play while still not approaching burstiness. It didnt eliminate weakness, but simply made it feel better.
ilvl 362 affli main here with over 7 days played on level 120
I cant really enjoy affli or destro right now. Except [affli] single target bossfight i dont really like the gameplay of warlocks. It feels slow and not rewarding in kind of damage. Playing a frost mage and affli warlock since years and its just annoying. Class and spec's changed a lot over the last couple of years but at this point im almost done with warlocks.
In dungeons i feel pretty weak as affli or destro. While most class just cleave or press frozen orb as a frost mage, i really strungle as affli to do dps while trash.
Even as destro it doesn't feels good too. Without playing catalysm & channeling demonfire it makes no sense to play this spec. Affli in avarage m+ feels just bad. Ramp up time is to long. Because of that i don't play affli any more in dungeons.
In my opinion warlock should have more spells baseline to be a bit more variable in different situations. As i said, without playing catalysm & channeling demonfire you can't aoe at all. Sure, we have Havoc, but with gcd it just feels slow and boring. Even damagecd's like darksound [not baseline LOL] have gcd. There is so much time you lose on fight because dots or cd's have 1s gcd it just adds more ramp up time and it feels like playing a lvl 10 char.
At this point i want to make sure, that i welcome other warlock feedback like:
Also warlocks in PvP are not satisfied at all. While being a targetdummy in 2v2 or 3v3, you can't avoid damage at all. I played above 2200+ in different expansions but now it seems to be impossible for me to get there without being a rank1 blizzcon champion or pvp only player. While focused all the time, you can't cast because every melee has atleast one stun and one interrupt +movementspeed/gabcloser.
As warlock you are limited because teleport is not baseline and the only ability to get away for some seconds. Except the gateway there is nothing you can do at all. It is very frustration to play versus two melee's which train you all the time and you can't cast because they spam all interrupts and stuns at you +doing ridiculous damage. It doesn't makes sense to NOT focus a warlock in arena because he has no real escape.
Since felhunter can't dispel magic, blanket cs are gone, deathcoil gone, howl of terror gone, instant shadowfury gone, i dont see any point to play this class in pvp except the weekly pvp chest. Im hoping for changes until 8.1 or i unsub.
In the last couple of years most hybrids / melees got so many utilitys and also didnt get their "class abibilitys" removed. For example ret pallys or ferals couldn't interrupt for a long time. Another example: warr's / shaman got a stun. On the other hand blizzard decided to remove so many warlock abilitys but maked every melee one interrupt / stun:
- howl of terror completly gone
- teleport basline gone
- deathcoild without adding DR on fear completly gone
- soullink complitly gone
- increased stamina for warlocks gone
- selfheal from corruption basline gone
- SL baseline gone, so no passiv selfheal
- spamming drainlife since everyone can interrupt is just awful
- demon skin completly gone
- fel armor completly gone
- felflame completly gone
- shadowflame completly gone
- shadowfury 1.3s cast, was instant LOL
I cant really enjoy affli or destro right now. Except [affli] single target bossfight i dont really like the gameplay of warlocks. It feels slow and not rewarding in kind of damage. Playing a frost mage and affli warlock since years and its just annoying. Class and spec's changed a lot over the last couple of years but at this point im almost done with warlocks.
In dungeons i feel pretty weak as affli or destro. While most class just cleave or press frozen orb as a frost mage, i really strungle as affli to do dps while trash.
Even as destro it doesn't feels good too. Without playing catalysm & channeling demonfire it makes no sense to play this spec. Affli in avarage m+ feels just bad. Ramp up time is to long. Because of that i don't play affli any more in dungeons.
In my opinion warlock should have more spells baseline to be a bit more variable in different situations. As i said, without playing catalysm & channeling demonfire you can't aoe at all. Sure, we have Havoc, but with gcd it just feels slow and boring. Even damagecd's like darksound [not baseline LOL] have gcd. There is so much time you lose on fight because dots or cd's have 1s gcd it just adds more ramp up time and it feels like playing a lvl 10 char.
At this point i want to make sure, that i welcome other warlock feedback like:
01/09/2018 20:08Posted by Flintty
1: Slightly increase our AOE capability.
2: Let me spec Drain Soul and Deathbolt together (whilst keeping Haunt!). DS is my preferred play style but I’d like the additional burst that Deathbolt brings.
20/09/2018 15:41Posted by WhickedAdded the idea to make Agony half a GCD because it would speed the super slow gameplay of affliction up a bit and getting all your dots dispelled would no longer hurt that much.
This would fit PvE perfectly as well because it feels really slow to dot mob after mob in a trashpack or in an AoE Bossfight. Most things die when your Agony just reached maximum stacks.
Also warlocks in PvP are not satisfied at all. While being a targetdummy in 2v2 or 3v3, you can't avoid damage at all. I played above 2200+ in different expansions but now it seems to be impossible for me to get there without being a rank1 blizzcon champion or pvp only player. While focused all the time, you can't cast because every melee has atleast one stun and one interrupt +movementspeed/gabcloser.
As warlock you are limited because teleport is not baseline and the only ability to get away for some seconds. Except the gateway there is nothing you can do at all. It is very frustration to play versus two melee's which train you all the time and you can't cast because they spam all interrupts and stuns at you +doing ridiculous damage. It doesn't makes sense to NOT focus a warlock in arena because he has no real escape.
Since felhunter can't dispel magic, blanket cs are gone, deathcoil gone, howl of terror gone, instant shadowfury gone, i dont see any point to play this class in pvp except the weekly pvp chest. Im hoping for changes until 8.1 or i unsub.
In the last couple of years most hybrids / melees got so many utilitys and also didnt get their "class abibilitys" removed. For example ret pallys or ferals couldn't interrupt for a long time. Another example: warr's / shaman got a stun. On the other hand blizzard decided to remove so many warlock abilitys but maked every melee one interrupt / stun:
- howl of terror completly gone
- teleport basline gone
- deathcoild without adding DR on fear completly gone
- soullink complitly gone
- increased stamina for warlocks gone
- selfheal from corruption basline gone
- SL baseline gone, so no passiv selfheal
- spamming drainlife since everyone can interrupt is just awful
- demon skin completly gone
- fel armor completly gone
- felflame completly gone
- shadowflame completly gone
- shadowfury 1.3s cast, was instant LOL
Damn forgot about shadowflame slow and demon armor. that was some fun stuff back in the day.
Wheaten above reminded me that interrupt is probably too important of an ability to be tied to pets. While its not a huge issue for aff and dest nowdays, it makes demo basically a no go for any high key cuzz youre saying you cant help with interrupts.
Suggestion:
Make interrupt baseline, felhunter will have purge and a shared cd interrupt originating from the felhunter itself, which mesns you can use it if you value being able to lock healers out of line of sight. That will make pet choice much more interesting in pvp and m+, where purge, self dispel, succubus cc and voidwalker aoe dmg all have interesting niches.
Wheaten above reminded me that interrupt is probably too important of an ability to be tied to pets. While its not a huge issue for aff and dest nowdays, it makes demo basically a no go for any high key cuzz youre saying you cant help with interrupts.
Suggestion:
Make interrupt baseline, felhunter will have purge and a shared cd interrupt originating from the felhunter itself, which mesns you can use it if you value being able to lock healers out of line of sight. That will make pet choice much more interesting in pvp and m+, where purge, self dispel, succubus cc and voidwalker aoe dmg all have interesting niches.
Hello everybody ! I’m a warlock player who’s playing and enjoyin it since Vanilla. Yeah, I started back in 2005. I was in a top-ladder cyclone bg during s3-s7. After that I quit the game and came back at the end of the s5 of legion. So far, I have been playing semi-casual. Current state of the game and mechanics for me is, kinda … I don’t know, worst… I guess Is the right word.
After reading a large number of posts including the dude above I decide to picture my vision of the warlock. I completely agree with adding back Demonic / Fel armor, while Demonic armor would increase not only the armor but also the incoming healing for n% . If Fel armor would increase n% of int and some leech or give passive hp/s it would be ok too I guess.
Also, I’m believe that Demonic Circle: Teleport or Mortal Coil should be a baseline spell. Giving us shadowfury that you need to cast is like “what??”.
I also think there should be some abilities(pvptalents/passives/talents) similar to:
1. Firestone which increases crit chance and generates some soul shards on crit.
2. Spellstone which increases haste and chance on a tic of drainlife/drainsoul/ to grant a soul shard.
3. Felstone which increases mastery and a chance to summon an additional imp/demon or like legion weapon trait when imps expire they add some dmg to demons.
For the current state of the game, talking about warlocks survival Soul Leech and Soul link passives have to be adjusted to right numbers.
Also talking about an Affliction spec, I think there should be a slightly increase of base duration of a DoTs (Corruption/Siphon Life is a 15s duration, which is kinda low I guess)
For the demonology spec, I would like to see only 1 talent for a quick rework, which is Doom. Lowering the duration for 10-15s with current dmg and it should be just fine. Otherwise, right now it is completely useless (in pvp).
And for me definetly something wrong with a hardcasting shadowbolt for 1.7s
Overall that was a quick review of a warlock state by me. Everything I write above is my personal opinion, it doesn’t have to be the truth!!
If this post gets some good attitude I’ll bring upfront also a talent review and some azurite ideas for the Afflition and the Demo specs and would also include some pvp talents. Hope some of devs would see and put these on a discussion table. Thanks everyone.
PS: Drain Life trait should be nerfed it is @#$ !
PSS just played a funniest arena game: so i basically put fel lord,dogs,vilefiend, felguard,casted a tyrent and warrior was standin still, nothing happens, he killed me in a def stance AHAHAHHA. I just smashed altf4 cuz its the best solution out of there. If theres no solution coming - unsub is the way to go
After reading a large number of posts including the dude above I decide to picture my vision of the warlock. I completely agree with adding back Demonic / Fel armor, while Demonic armor would increase not only the armor but also the incoming healing for n% . If Fel armor would increase n% of int and some leech or give passive hp/s it would be ok too I guess.
Also, I’m believe that Demonic Circle: Teleport or Mortal Coil should be a baseline spell. Giving us shadowfury that you need to cast is like “what??”.
I also think there should be some abilities(pvptalents/passives/talents) similar to:
1. Firestone which increases crit chance and generates some soul shards on crit.
2. Spellstone which increases haste and chance on a tic of drainlife/drainsoul/ to grant a soul shard.
3. Felstone which increases mastery and a chance to summon an additional imp/demon or like legion weapon trait when imps expire they add some dmg to demons.
For the current state of the game, talking about warlocks survival Soul Leech and Soul link passives have to be adjusted to right numbers.
Also talking about an Affliction spec, I think there should be a slightly increase of base duration of a DoTs (Corruption/Siphon Life is a 15s duration, which is kinda low I guess)
For the demonology spec, I would like to see only 1 talent for a quick rework, which is Doom. Lowering the duration for 10-15s with current dmg and it should be just fine. Otherwise, right now it is completely useless (in pvp).
And for me definetly something wrong with a hardcasting shadowbolt for 1.7s
Overall that was a quick review of a warlock state by me. Everything I write above is my personal opinion, it doesn’t have to be the truth!!
If this post gets some good attitude I’ll bring upfront also a talent review and some azurite ideas for the Afflition and the Demo specs and would also include some pvp talents. Hope some of devs would see and put these on a discussion table. Thanks everyone.
PS: Drain Life trait should be nerfed it is @#$ !
PSS just played a funniest arena game: so i basically put fel lord,dogs,vilefiend, felguard,casted a tyrent and warrior was standin still, nothing happens, he killed me in a def stance AHAHAHHA. I just smashed altf4 cuz its the best solution out of there. If theres no solution coming - unsub is the way to go