Please use this thread to post feedback on the Death Knight class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.
Please use this thread to post feedback on the Death Knight class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.
Hello Death Knights!
We’d like to kick things off here with a talk about some future plans for both the Core and Unholy Death Knight trees. While all specs can expect iteration as we navigate through alpha and beyond, this update will focus on the two trees mentioned.
In next week’s Alpha, you can expect to see an updated layout to the Core tree. In its current iteration, the tree feels a little too linear, with lower variance in customization as you progressed down one of the branches of the trees. To alleviate this, we’ve added connecting nodes to Blood’s branch from both the Frost and the Unholy sides of the core tree before the 1st gate, and one after the second gate. We’re also adding more nodes above the first gate, to add some more flexibility when picking up utility options.
We’re also doing some talent re-arrangements to fix dependency issues (preventing players from picking up talents with 0 value based on their prior picks). Here’s a work-in-progress picture that might give a better idea of what that means.
In the core tree, we’re going to move forward with some known bugs. While most things that aren’t actually working should be marked as NYI (Not Yet Implemented), we missed one with Empower Rune Weapon adding charges (for Frost). It’s currently not giving a charge if you learn it in both the Core and Frost tree. This will be fixed in a future alpha build.
Rune Strike is intended to only be available prior to choosing a spec. Each of the specs first talent choices should replace Rune Strike. This will be fixed in a future build.
As we move into future builds, we want to tackle two main issues we’ve heard about from the community. The first is the issue of cooldown desyncs which is caused by a few different talents and some oddly timed base cooldowns. This will be our first priority. Secondly, after these changes make it to the alpha, we will want to tackle the overall structure of Unholy’s talent layout. The tree layout changing will take some time but we want to give an early heads up that we are actively looking at it and you can expect changes in the future.
Our initial goals with this include:
Some changes to expect in a future alpha build:
Thank you all for the ongoing feedback! It’s greatly appreciated, and we look forward to more as we iterate throughout the testing period.
Hey and thank you for creating a feedback post.
So far, I have played both Frost and Unholy DK on Alpha. I will try my best to provide a detailed but brief feedback based on my first impression, both for PvE and PvP.
Unholy in general will go through a rework and the 30/45/90 approach looks good. There are certain complications regarding the build. The most obvious complication is the wound system still being at the heart of the build. You need wounds for any type of unholy build at the moment. The talent Infectious Wound as of now is too much RNG and can hurt the main rotation of the build. I believe this talent needs a more “consistent” outcome that it can offer. The rival of this talent, “Festering Strike” also feels underperforming, since it’s flat physical damage increase does not offer good value when pitted against “Infectious Wound”.
Unholy in PvE can be much better imho. I love the idea of implementing Deadly Coil by default into Death Coil (upcoming rework for Unholy). The addition of “Death Rot” and “Improved Death Coil” talents definitely feel good. I personally think that this is a step in the right direction, and builder+spender synergies can be explored further, without complicating the rotation. Does Death Rot debuff count as a disease? If yes, then further synergy with “Morbidity” talent can create interesting outcomes. The biggest problem with a “Death Coil” centric build is the underperforming “Harbinger of Doom” talent. This has been a problematic talent for many years and it definitely needs a rework/buff.
Clawing Shadows is an amazing talent that feels great. The problems about its current location in the talent tree has been mentioned in the rework post and I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.
While Unholy will see a rework, I personally like the new “pet centric” build approach. I think this concept can be further explored, by introducing a new talent that can provide “Rune of the Apocalypse” runeforge effects to your ghoul. The PvP talent “Spellwarden” already proved that this can be implemented into the game. This brings another question: I currently could not see “Unholy Bond” talent improving the effects of Rune of the Apocalype in Alpha, is this working as intended (also will this improve the Spellwarden PvP talent effectiveness as well)?
Unholy still feels incomplete in PvP. The main problem of Unholy with regard to PvP is playstyle. In PvP, you need to use “Chains of Ice” frequently, which costs 1 Rune. That 1 Rune cost is too much for Unholy, since you need Festering Strike that costs 2 Runes to apply wounds (Unholy Frenzy is a very valuable CD that cannot be casually used). The talent “Pestilence” feels like a trap talent, since 10% chance for a wound in a death and decay window feels underwhelming. However, I can imagine a scenario where making Chains of Ice apply 1 wound to the target (100% chance) can create great value (will save runes) for Unholy PvP.
Another playstyle problem for Unholy PvP is Death Coil. Unfortunately Unholy DK’s mostly use “Death Strike” instead. Therefore, I personally think the new 30/45/90 approach is a step in the right direction, however, it still needs further consideration with regard to PvP. For example, talents such as “Death Rot” or “Improved Death Coil” feel good for PvE scenarios, and in “some” PvP scenarios where you are not focused, but your damage will be dramatically reduced if you have to spam Death Strike. Therefore, as a solution, Death Strike can may be implemented into “Death Rot” so you can retain your Death Rot stacks while also keeping yourself alive. The “Doomburst” version of the Death Rot talent can also be reworked, and make Death Coil flat apply 2 stacks of Death Rot instead. This way, if you are not pressured, you can choose to use Death Coil and build up damage faster, whereas Death Striking will result in a slower “Death Rot” damage buildup. You are effectively trading off between offense and defense. As of now, the spectrum is extreme when you have to Death Strike in PvP. With this change, the difference can be narrowed while retaining the option to make a meaningful choice.
Also, while we have to wait for the reworked version of Army of the Damned talent, I would like to higlight the importance of the 5 times nerfed “Raise Abomination” PvP talent. The reworked version of the Army of the Damned feels great for Apocalypse. However, when you select “Raise Abomination” talent for PvP, it does replace Army of the Dead and makes it a 1.5 min cooldown. Reworking Army of the Damned will be very important, since the Army of the Dead cooldown reduction may affect “Raise Abomination” PvP talent in a game breaking way.
There is a nother similar problem with the above mentioned statement. Will “Necromancer’s Bargain” PvP talent further reduce the cooldown of Apocalypse by 45 seconds as well? The reworked version of Army of the Damned will flat reduce Apocalypse cooldown by 45 seconds, which makes it a 45 second cooldown. In Alpha, we can still select 3 PvP talents. If I choose Necromancer’s Bargain and further reduce the CD of Apocalypse, it becomes 0 CD, which does not feel natural. As it can be observed, while PvE centric changed/reworks are made, PvP side of the spectrum definitely needs a rework as well.
It feels great to see “Will of the Necropolis” and “Abomination Limb” talents in the main Death Knight tree. As of now, Abomination Limb is too deep into the tree. Perhaps its location (the default Abomination Limb) can be changed and then the final talent can be the SL Unity legendary effect version of Abomination Limb, with the extra duration and damage buff.
Frost feels more complete compared to Unholy. The PvP aspect and PvE aspect of the talent tree is much more visible in Frost. You go left for 2h obliteration PvP build and you go right for more PvE oriented cleave/ST Breath version. I really liked seeing “Enduring Strength” and “Frostwhelp’s Aid” talents returning. However, Frost does have its problems.
My initial Alpha impression with regards to Frost PvE is Breath build being mega exciting. Having RoTFC and Biting Cold legendary effects combined with Chill Streak and Breath windows will ensure that Frost DK cleave damage becomes a powerhouse. Add 2x Empower Rune Weapon CD on top and you are looking at LONG breath windows and big cleave damage.
What about 2hander Frost PvE build? I tested it and it does not feel bad. The general DK talent “Cleaving Strikes” helps keep the Obliteration dream somewhat alive. However, I personally think 2 hander obliterate base damage needs a buff. The early Shadowlands Beta nerf to Obliterate is still hurting the build. “Improved Obliterate” talent can be buffed further to make obliteration a better choice for single target fights. Changing Glacial Advance cooldown can also help improving 2hander Frost builds. As of now, Breath build variations look like the top choice both for single target and AoE cleave fights.
Frost PvP does not feel bad, but it still has the same problems. Your enemies have to pay attention to 2 cooldowns: 1- Pillar of Frost, 2- Chill Streak (2 trick pony problem). That’s it. Frost does not offer real damage outside of these windows. I personally think this needs to change with regard to PvP. Having a Frost DK on top of a player should feel deadly at all times. “Enduring Strength” talent can be synergized further with “Obliteration” or “Enduring Strength” can allow for big obliterate procs to continue for a limited duration. “Bonegrinder” can be reworked so it caps out at 3 stacks and Frost strike consumes the charges instead.
In general, I like the Frost DK talent tree distribution (it may need a minor rework), however I feel like Frost PvP talents need a rework. First of all, Chill Streak still exists as a PvP talent. In order for a player to pick “Enduring Chill” or “Piercing Chill” talents, they have to pick Chill Streak. What would happen if a Frost DK player picks Chill Streak PvP talent on top of it? As of now nothing happens in Alpha. If this will be the case, then one of the Frost PvP talents becomes worthless. Frost DK definitely needs new PvP talents. A Remorseless Winter centric PvP talent that may offer extra damage or minor healing reduction can work wonders and help solve the 2 trick pony problem I mentioned at the start of this chapter. The legion artifact weapon power that allowed additional Death Strike healing during IBF (Icebound Fortitude) windows can be a nice PvP talent. There are many options possible. The removal of Heartstop Aura is problematic for Frost PvP and I think this can be solved either by improving consistent damage, or adding a third trick CD (remorseless winter windows etc-see above-) into the equation.
Overall I feel good about the DK in the current Alpha state. I do have some concerns and I have tried to clearly elaborate them here in this post. I hope this post can provide inspiration in some way and help bring a better Death Knight gameplay experience for Dragonflight expansion.
Frost Dks overall have gotten good talent trees, alot of variety builds, im excited to test it, feels def upgrade over shadowlands into right direction.
Hello Death Knights,
We’ve got an info drop for you. Here’s what we’ve been working on, and what you can expect to see in the next Alpha build for both the Class and Unholy trees.
In an effort to further increase choice, we’ve updated some talent positions, added two additional connections from Might of Thassarian and Merciless Strikes toward the center section of the class tree, reduced 3 rank talents to 2, and updated the lead-in talent to Abomination Limb with a throughput talent.
The following changes are not everything you’re going to see in the next build. Rather, these are highlights of the bigger changes (and a few more-subtle position changes with existing talent nodes).
Improved Death Strike
Here is a look at the updated tree with the new structure:
As we mentioned previously, we have updates to both the baseline and talent tree for Unholy. These will be available in the next Alpha update. The baseline changes focus on helping reduce the cooldown desync as well as baking in existing talents to help the flow and feel of the spec. Additionally, the Unholy tree itself experienced substantial iteration and has been mostly redesigned and restructured with 11 new talents.
Below is a list of changes previously mentioned, as well as new talents. The below list does not document each individual restructuring of existing talents, as that’s quite substantial, but we do have a screenshot of the tree below to help contextualize what can be expected.
Scourge Strike/Clawing Shadows
Army of the Damned
Improved Scourge Strike – Increases the damage of Scourge Strike by 10/20%
New Talent – Feasting Strikes: Festering Strike and Scourge Strike/Clawing Shadows have 15% chance to generate 1 Rune.
New Talent – Runic Mastery: Increases Maximum Runic Power by 10/20.
New Talent – Plaguebringer: Scourge Strike causes your disease damage to occur 150% more quickly for 5 sec.
New Talent – Magus of the Dead: Apocalypse and Army of the Dead also summon a Magus of the Dead who hurls Frostbolts and Shadow Bolts at your foes.
New Talent – Ruptured Viscera: When your ghouls expire, they explode in viscera dealing Shadow damage to nearby enemies.
New Talent – Commander of the Dead: Dark Transformation also empowers your Gargoyle and Army of the Dead for 30 seconds, increasing their damage by 40%.
New Talent – Eternal Agony: Death Coil increases the duration of Dark Transformation by 1 sec.
New Talent – Coil of Devastation: Death Coil causes the target to take an additional 35% of the direct damage dealt over 4 sec.
New Talent – Rotten Touch: Sudden Doom causes your next Death Coil to also increase your Scourge Strike damage against the target by 30% for 6 sec.
[NYI] New Talent - Plaguebearer: Inflict disease upon your enemies spreading Festering Wounds equal to the amount currently active on your target to 8 nearby enemies (45s cooldown, 30 Runic Power).
New Talent – Superstrain: Your Virulent Plague also applies Frost Fever and Blood Plague.
The new and updated Unholy tree looks like this:
Thank you very much for all of your discussion and feedback.
We look forward to hearing more from you about the updated trees.
Is it known that you cant create death knights ? you get empty error .
Complete notes for today’s update:
In the next alpha build the Death Knight core tree is being updated to better increase talent choice. In order to do this, we’ve made several abilities baseline and cut talents that were proving to be problematic for the overall health of the resource economy for the specs. The left side of the class tree had 4 talents all dedicated to resources, which felt a little excessive. This has been reduced 2 (specifics noted below). In addition to the resource talents being shifted around, we’ve also made Death’s Advance and Lichborne baseline.*
New Talent – March of Darkness: Death’s Advance grants additional movement speed.
Horn of Winter
New Talent – Insidious Chill: Your auto-attacks reduce the target’s auto-attack speed by 5% for 30 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.
Runic Corruption and Runic Empowerment
New Talent – Gloom Ward: Absorbs are 15% more effective on you.
In the next alpha build, Blood tree has undergone significant changes including updates to pathing, new connections, 6 new talents, updated existing talents, and 3 max rank talents have been reduced to 2 max ranks. Due to the sheer amount of changes to the talent tree we will just highlight some of the bigger changes to the tree below.
Improved Blood Boil
Improved Heart Strike
Dancing Rune Weapon
New Talent - Blood Feast: Anti-Magic Shell heals you for 100% of the damage it absorbs.
New Talent – Iron Heart: Blood Shield’s duration is increased by 2 seconds and it absorbs 20% more damage.
New Talent – Bloodshot: While Blood Shield is active, you deal 25% increased Physical damage.
New Talent – Sanguine Ground: You deal 5% more damage and receive 5% more healing while standing in your Death and Decay.
New Talent – Coagulopathy: Enemies affected by Blood Plague take 5% increased damage from you and Death Strike increases the damage of your Blood Plague by 25% for 8 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.
New Talent – Umbilicus Eternus: After Vampiric Blood expires, you absorb damage equal to 5 times the damage your Blood Plague dealt during Vampiric Blood.
Updated Blood Tree
In addition to Unholy’s latest changes we have a few updates we’d like to make to their talents that affect resource generation. The changes to the class tree should be a step in the right direction for better balancing Unholy’s resource economy, but we also want to target a few Unholy specific talents as well. Unholy has been a class with a higher downtime and while we think some downtime can be okay, it’s important to find a balance between too high and too low. The current alpha version swung that pendulum too far in one direction and we are looking to find a better middle ground that both feels fun and rewarding to play. Resource tuning will continue to be on going as we head into Dragonflight. As mentioned last week we are making efforts to prepare for tuning in Dragonflight as such Unholy will be receiving a few tuning tweaks to their talents.
Improved Death Coil
Commander of the Dead
Today’s complete notes:
Great changes for the Blood Dk Tree, especially the QoL ones.
Here is my feedback on what I was able to test.
More than anything the first 3 mentioned are just stuff we haven’t liked since they were created and when we expected to not seem them again we get them back at the cost of a talent point blocking new stuff. This being said I do see some new life given to Tombstone with Shattering Bone especially for snap threat but 1, its inconsistant, sometimes it triggers only 1 instance of damage when consuming multiple stacks and 2, at which point does the talent gets reworked if it’s only used because of it’s negative/cost part to trigger a different talent?
2. Cool (obviously subjective) stuff we could use to replace the above mentioned things:
3. General feedback.
I love Shattering Bone, I’ve asked for this for ages and suggested this in forums/discords in the past and it’s even better than what I hoped because you added a minigame that wasn’t necessairly there before, activelly using Death and Decay instead of only pressing if its free. This changes a bit how you play DK. Thank you for this.
In my head the fantasy of Blood DK can fall into 2 different categories: The bone and the blood/Vampire and this is more or less how the talent tree is divided while having the Rune blade fantasy linking both, it’s great. I just wished we would have a bit more things (new things) tied to our rune blade instead of the summon another copy and adds 8 seconds.
Amazing job with the tree, I will certainly miss the current playstyle but I understand why it was removed. As a lasting pet peve, I would love to see Death’s Caress animation/sound replaced with Icy Touch sound and animation (could be red to fit the spec) becuase this is such an iconic spell and deaths caress has been such a meme until this rework that it deserves its sound/animation.
Alright finger stretch FROST DK
Honestly Frost DK is in an awful position, I come primarily from a PvP perspective so for all I know it could be amazing in m+ and raid but I’m pretty sure it isn’t. Frost DK was at it’s most fun in WoD and when I look back at videos from then the big thing I realise is that obliterate was not a wet noodle without killing machine and killing machine procced a lot more.
This is about it’s performance but also about its FEEL which for me is much more important.
At the moment the playstyle is run in chains some people, blind someone and freeze them next to someone else and chill streak (god how I hate this ability). Then you pop your IWIN button and throw all your cooldowns at the enemy team, you play obliteration because even with pillar of frost your non-killing machine obliterates feel like hitting someone with a pool noodle. this gives you a window of 12 seconds where your obliterates will hit for 20% of someones health pool per hit in order to get killing machine to proc here you need to spend 2 globals which realistically with your haste buff from empowered rune weapon means you can probably get 4 obliterates off maybe 5. This is on a 1 minute cooldown, monk and warrior disarms are on a 45 second cooldown and last for 6 seconds meaning you would only get two obliterates off, not to mention the fact they can use another CC on you to completely mitigate your burst.
This is just how the game works yes but the problem is that now your 4/5 obliterates that were doing 20k damage are now doing 2k damage outside of pillar and killing machine and you have literally 0 kill pressure whatsoever, now you are a target dummy for 48 seconds. This feels horrible, it feels awful I honestly barely play my DK anymore, my favourite class in the game because of how this feels.
Lets look at a comparative spec: Ret paladin (both stack mastery versatility with minimal haste and crit and both have a heavy reliance on burst cooldowns) - Wings lasts for 30 seconds and is generally pretty comparable to obliteration pillar in power levels HOWEVER. Inside of wings ret paladin will judgement you (probably 10k) . hammer you (probably 12k damage non crit) , wake of ashes (14k damage non crit) and then hit you for about 15k with verdict whilst hitting you for another 10k with divine storm) this is 73k damage in 4 globals where frost DK would have hit you for 40k maybe 50k and i REITERATE that wings lasts for like 30 seconds and pillar lasts for 12 seconds. on top of this frost DK needs a lot more finesse to pull off it’s burst instead of just rolling your face across your keyboard as a ret paladin. Outside of this burst ret can heal and still provide decent damage while a frost DK is just pressing remorseless winter and spamming wet noodle obliterates to stack up the damage buff from runes spent - this brings me to my next point RUNES.
I understand that you guys are making all classes builder spender classes now, but what you HAVE to understand is the DK is that in REVERSE, your runes are your holy power equivalent, and your runic power is spent on filler abilities like frost strike and death strike. I think personally that this means the hardest hitting rotational ability in our kit should be the spell called OBLITERATE not fRoSt sTrIkE. It costs 2 runes which recharge very slowly outside of the proccable increases to regen rate.
I think the crux of the issue is that you have shifted waaaay too much of frost DKs power budget into pillar of frost and our AoE, nothing feels worse than seeing forst fever and abom limb being your top 2 damage in a 3v3 or RBG game (although more understandable with RBGs).
You have made 0 changes to frost DK playstyle this expansion and frankly that means that for the 7th year running I will be playing something else instead. You have 2 months to come out with some fixes for this issue, but this probably looked like a REEE I MISS MOP rant so you will probably ignore it. But perhaps I can suggest that you look at how many frost DKs are in the top 1000 rated arena players, last time I check EU it was 3.
Content creators I have watched for years have quit the game over the state of frost DK - Xodas, Hazzed, I mean when was the last time you saw bajheera play his frost DK. It’s sad and it makes me sad because I fell in love with this class and spec in WoD.
Sincerely - someone who is now maining ret instead
Unholy is in general feeling really good from my testing on beta. However, the opener is kinda awkward, especially with gargoyle when you pick festermight. You end up in a situation where you don’t want to scourge strike before your gargoyle window, since your festermight buff will run out before the apex of your gargoyle ramp… But this is kinda your only way to pool rp without further overcapping on festering wounds - which feels kinda bad. An easy fix from this (As mentioned by others) is to have your Gargoyle give 40-50 rp on use, similar to Breath giving resources on use for frost.
Another issue with Gargoyle, that even after the buff to its ramp, it is still kinda weak, and barely worth taking even in pure single target situations, which has become even worse with the 25% nerf to Command of the Dead. It deals about half the damage of army of the dead, a cooldown that while iconic and visually great, is almost entirely passive on the gameplay front.
Some theorycrafters have done sims, and with the commander of the dead nerf, garg deals about 5% damage overall in a pure single target situation. If the wish is to replicate the much beloved Dark Arbiter gameplay from legion as our single target capstone, Gargoyle would need another substantial buff (preferably to its base damage). Personally I think that a cooldown that rewards good gameplay and resource spending, should at least be as powerful as an entirely passive cooldown (AoTD). Interactive pet gameplay is something unholy has been missing ever since legion, and in its current state, Gargoyle is most likely not even worth spending a single point on in pure single target situations vs something like superstrain, festermight or ghoulish frenzy.
Playing Frost DK on beta thru leveling and doing dungeons (mostly heroics at 70) all I can say is wow, I hope some numbers tuning is coming soon because this spec feels so weak. I have to pop all of my cooldowns to do some relatively comparative damage to others in AoE situations and then get smashed in dps numbers on bosses. Playing a 2 handed obliteration build here which might be the issue but even taking FWF, absolute zero and limb makes me a presence in AoE situations every… what, 1 minute 30 seconds at the least? That’s assuming I also use PoF and ERW. It has very little damage right now and I’d assume in pvp it would only get worse considering it’s already the worst melee in arena right now.
Ideally the best change for Frost DK in pvp in terms of damage would be reducing its burst damage slightly while bringing up its consistent damage. Its consistent damage is what is what made it terrible in pvp in the first place since it had no kill pressure, but general numbers speaking, as of now in the current beta it needs more burst AND consistent damage. Chill Streak does less damage than SL and thats with the node that modifies its damage, thats also including the 30%+ vers people had (which would make Chill Streak hit at least 15% weaker on players compared to mobs. What?) Remorseless Winter feels like a meme button to press in single target.
Maybe PoF could be brought down to a 45 second cooldown once more, ERW brought down to 1 minute 30 second cd for shorter burst downtimes? Might of the Frozen Wastes should also be baseline. Maybe also having Obliteration and Icecap set apart, I can imagine a build with both of those being ridiculously fun.
Frost Strike feels like it’s doing a ridiculously low amount of damage, in tandem I’m looking at my Obliterate numbers (with all possible modifiers from nodes put onto it) and I could log into retail and see higher obliterate numbers on a level 60 Frost DK. Personally I’d love to see just baseline obliterate crit for how hard KM obliterate crits. Maybe KMr2 could just be baked into regular crits rather than specifically on KM procs. In leveling I found it hard to kill some bosses, all were doable but some forced me to kite for defensive cooldowns as it took so long and they hit so hard compared to me - some of them I’d even be kiting as another player would come along and just clean up the last 40% hp in basically 1/5th of the time it took me to get the boss down 60% of its hp. Here’s hoping that the Frost DK talent tree update we’ll hopefully be seeing soon will come with some much needed damage buffs. It’s got a fun playstyle, the damage just isn’t there to make playing Frost even slightly worth it when you could go to the specializations tab and press “Activate” right underneath the word “Unholy”.
Also, selecting the node for an extra charge of ERW does not give an extra charge of ERW. It basically does nothing atm
Edit: This is aimed towards Obliteration in general. I haven’t tried Icecap or BoS. Obliteration in general same premise applies. KMr2 should just be baked into regular Obliterate (aka it should do Frost damage 100% of the time on crits), Might of the Frozen Wastes should be baseline. In replace of those nodes perhaps a talent that reduces PoF cd or something. Obliteration is underperforming in PvE and Frost DK in general is very bad in arena, no point in keeping it as is right now imo
The unholy changes that just came in makes me really happy. After multiple years, we’ve finally gotten the ability to play gargoyle without it feeling clunky or interfering negatively with the spec. The length of our opener feels like it’s in a much more acceptable area now that Garg gives rp on use and is off the GCD - Awesome changes!! The resource flow feels great as well, we’re definitely moving back to being a spec with little downtime, and therefore a bit more decision making when we decide what to press.
I’d say Unholys biggest issues now are talent tuning - which is honestly a great place to be so early into the beta. Death rot after the nerfs is kinda underwhelming since it only increases our own shadow damage. A cool change could be that it also affects our pets sweeping claw ability and Gargoyle damage, since they both deal shadow damage. Not sure it would be enough to make it feels like more than just a gateway to festermight, but it would add some more flavor to it.
Same goes for morbidity. Adding minion dmg to it would also give it something that the talent right beside it (ghoulish frenzy) doesn’t provide.
Also harbinger of doom is a talent that has been pretty much useless since it was introduced in BFA. I assume you have a reason for not buffing it since it has been bad for this long. From a gameplay perspective, my main issue with is that 15% more sudden dooms is not something you feel, and is on average about 1 more death coil per minute. Furthermore, since our sudden doom procs doesn’t happen that frequently, we will realistically never get to accumulate 2 charges. So the ability to have 2 charges might as well not be there. Buffing the proc rate massively would also make the prerequisite for it (rotten touch) to be a bit more attractive. However, if it pushes us into a situation where we’re overflowing with resources again (since we already have enough), it may not be the best course of action. It would be nice if something would be done to make it more attractive tho.
Hello Death Knights,
We want to share some of the upcoming changes we have planned for the Frost spec tree in the next Beta build. While we were generally happy with the Frost tree and what it had to offer, we also recognize that there were some improvements that could be made based on our learnings over Dragonflight’s Alpha development.
The existing Frost tree suffered a bit from a lack of choice once a player locked into a specific build (often choosing between Obliteration or BoS, then making 1 or 2 choices with what talent points remained). To help alleviate this issue, the upcoming tree has received new talents, reworked talents, existing talents moved to more accessible spaces, updated pathing connections, and lastly several selection node talents have been decoupled and moved elsewhere within the tree (most notably Icecap).
This is what it looks like:
Below, you can find the new and updated talents. This doesn’t cover all of the positional and pathing changes for talents, but it does highlight some of the more notable ones.
Improved Frost Strike and Runic Command
Horn of Winter
Improved Killing Machine
Empower Rune Weapon
New Talent – Shattering Strike
New Talent - Icebreaker
Ist sad, the Might of the frozen wasted is still a talent and we still don’t get our shadowlands season 4 Tierset bonus, but the new patching and changes look promising, I will edit this reply, when it’s on beta/ptr an have tested it
Why are we still wasting a talent on 2H? - glacial advance is the most pointless ability. Please tune downthe damage from frost fever and chill streak and buff obliterate by like 400% - On beta right now my obliterate hits for 3k and costs 2 runes but rune strike hits for 2k and costs 1 rune?!?!
I don’t know what us frost DKs did to offend all of you devs but man this spec was ruined by legion
Necromancers bargain and army of the damned makes apocalypse cooldown 0 seconds in pvp, even though it’s really fun to play like that and summon maguses i wonder if it’s the intended design?. If it’s not intended and it could potentially be changed i would love to see gargoyle not having 3 minute cd so the ability can finally be used.
Quick list with feedback regarding the Death Knight class tree in general and the Blood tree in particular.
Death Knight (General): tier 1 talents should have more connections for better pathing and more choice - currently requires 12 points just to path down into the 2nd tier.
Insidious Chill: feels bad to apply and maintain with only auto-attacks in multi target situations. should work with all melee attacks including spreading via cleave e.g. from Death and Decay
Cleaving Strikes: feels like a wasted talent point in 1 or 2 target situations because it is practically impossible to talent out of in order to access the right side of the tree
Assimilation: feels a bit weak, the runic power component seems counter productive and incentivizes degenerate usage
Wraith Walk: should be more accessible, effectively costs 2 talent points in raid since the prior talents have little value
Sacrificial Pact: should be removed and replaced with something more generally useful. The 3 talent options (Sacrificial Pact, Control Undead, Enfeeble) are very situational and/or weak, often feel like a wasted talent point
Gloom Ward: pathing should be improved, effectively mandatory pick only to be able to path further down
Blood Draw: feels very weak, especially due to long cd
Death Knight (Blood): feels like the spec is mostly gaining passive buffs which have little impact on gameplay and therefore aren’t particularly fun or interesting. At the same time it feels like many other talents are inaccessible due to scarcity of talent points and restrictive pathing. The spec tree also doesn’t attempt to solve the fundamental issues of Blood which, among other things, historically prevented the spec from being competitive in M+ due to low upfront mitigation resulting in one-shots, as well as the heavy reliance on external systems to increase (single target) damage to make up for the low baseline damage and threat.
Death’s Caress: already feels bad to pick this talent for dungeons just to be able to pull mobs at range, the added cooldown makes it impractical even for this niche purpose. This button is basically never pressed for anything else, especially in raid, however positioned in a way to make it mandatory to path through to reach the right side of the tree, should be reworked and repositioned
Tightening Grasp: feels very bad as a tier 3 talent, especially considering the cd reduction is only 25%
Bloodshot: might result in degenerate play in raids, although other tank specs suffer a similar fate. Should increase all damage not just physical.
Blood Feast: pathing should be improved, effectively costs 2 talent points in raid because the prior talent (Leeching Strike) has low value with low target count
Blood Tap: pathing should be improved, effectively costs 2 talent points in raid because the prior talent (Leeching Strike) has low value with low target count
Crimson Scourge: feels bad to be unable to talent out of in 1 or 2 target situations where Death and Decay shouldn’t be pressed. this is a fundamental problem with the newly added talents adding power to Death and Decay which makes it mandatory to use in 1 or 2 target situations
Perseverance of the Ebon Blade: same problem as Crimson Scourge, Death and Decay does not feel good to use in 1 or 2 target situations
Sanguine Ground: same problem as Crimson Scourge, Death and Decay does not feel good to use in 1 or 2 target situations, this talent exaggerates this problem due to the random downtime between Crimson Scourge procs, resulting in time periods where the player is incentivized to stall pressing buttons in order to not lose damage/healing
Relish in Blood: feels too weak, historically never picked, should be reworked or replaced with something more interesting
Mark of Blood: feels too weak, historically never picked, should reworked or removed
Heartrend: thematically not very fitting as a predecessor of Purgatory. Probably better suited as a tier 2 talent instead
This is wrong and actually also the reason why I came here:
Death’s Caress generates 2 Bone Shield charges now at the cost of 1 Rune. It also generates 10 RP. That means you can spend 4 Runes in two ways:
Spend 4 Runes for 2 Marrowrends to generate 6 Bone Shield and 40 Runic Power
Spend 4 Runes for 3 Death’s Caress and one Heart Strike to generate 6 Bone Shield and at least 40 runic power, but with Heartbreaker which I assume you have, you generate more and in a multitarget situation you generate significantly more + gain massive cleave.
Now this is only true outside of DRW, since during DRW (+Everlasting Bond, a talent you will always have) you generate a lot more Bone Shield with Marrowrend, creating a lot of Ifs and whens.
This also makes me realize that the blood tree should have some competition for the three talent points spent on DRW/Insatiable Blade/Everlasting Bond. This is such a no-brainer to take that it defeats the purpose of a tree with options.