Feedback: Delves

Having run a few more - I like the variety of gameplay inn the different delves - which shows some genuine innovation.

The pacing of the delves is quite variable - a couple (such as fungal follow) feels too slow (and tedious) but most land quite well. For those which have a faster pacing - they are fairly enjoyable and (at least in initial runs) offer enough novelty to keep my interest.

Being offered a reward chest that I cannot open due to having no keys - is weird and annoying. I suggest as a minimum just not having the chest if we have no keys.

That said the key mechanism feels just as bad as in previous World of Warcraft game modes which have gated access in this way. Not having a key (and thus getting limited rewards) makes it feel like there’s no point to doing a run without a key - and being asked to farm other content just to do one will, I predict, taint the enjoyment of both the delves and the content we’re asked to farm.

I’d every much prefer a M+ model where the weekly vault is used to gate the best rewards and discourage degenerate levels of farming.

On final bosses with major AoE attacks Bran tends to run to the boss and eat the AoE and get himself One shot. In The Dread Pit this happened so frequently as to render him completely unavailable for the entire duration of the fight.

When Exiting a completed delve I sometimes get a warning that I “will lose progress” which is confusing as it suggests the delve is unfinished.

I’ve had a little play of delves for myself. Mainly on my Survival Hunter. and wanted to give some thoughts.
I really love the idea. Each of the delves I’ve played (I think 6 or 7) feel unique and interesting and to hear that each of them still has another 2 options to try feels like it’s gonna be a varied play style to progress through. The length of each of them feels reasonable for the supposed rewards. Regarding progress, I can see myself enjoying the process of practising each delve to get better as I gear up and go to higher difficulties. I do think some parts are unnecessarily annoying – the spores knockback and hitbox, using the flamethrower in the mines, and the mobs in Sinkhole with the grappling hook but these don’t take away from the gameplay, just feel frustrating when other problems are involved.
The biggest problem is the difficulty. Tiers 4,5 and 7 are all roughly the same difficulty, (6 somehow feels easier) and that difficulty is insane. I think it’s mostly in the damage that mobs do to you, a mob by itself seems to die at a pretty reasonable rate. I’m spending most of my time finding and spamming my defensives and CC’s just to stay alive so much so that I barely get into my rotation. In one of them (I think nightfall sanctum) I didn’t even get past the first pack without depleting my lives across every difficulty. I tried this again on my DH (a historically more sustainable spec) and had the same problem. In all situations, if you pull a large pack, you’re probably dead. I do think the tuning needs to come down.
However, I feel like Brann’s healing could also be improved. Picking potions up from the floor is cool gameplay but is useless in really high-damage situations, some more powerful direct healing or support (shields etc) would be helpful.
I’m also noticing issues with threat. Some of the “affixes” cause problems with threat. The spores in Fungal Folly etc have their own hitbox, so my pet often attacks them once they explode and that causes multiple issues once I move on to the next pack. Also, pets can’t seem to taunt many enemies – rares, elites, bosses- at the time when it is most necessary for them to take the threat. Obviously, with the damage these do, the pet is dead instantly anyway.
More specifically, the totem/candle/breath delves are really interesting but I’m noticing it’s tough to find the items to top these up, mostly it’s just unclear but the air totem took ages to spawn from the purifiers.
I also think there have been some missed opportunities in some of the delves with traversal. The fungal folly has the cool mushrooms that take you to interesting places where nothing happens. This is the same in some of the others.
I am really excited about the future of delves but it has brought up two questions about gearing/progression. Firstly, We were told that the max item level of drops would be around Heroic raid level but the recommended item level for tier 7 is not far from the base item of LFR, how are we going to make that jump in only two difficulties? Secondly, how are players going to get powerful trinkets, weapons (with effects) and rings if they solely plan on playing delves? Are there gonna be items specific to delves that we can get in those slots or are we expected to still play raids/mythic+ to get any powerful trinkets/rings/weapons, for use in delves or otherwise?

Zekvir
If thats the big shadowy guy he sometimes really pulls you on long range even if you are not in his LOS. Sometimes even through stones/walls.

Powers
Those “anima powers” needs to go from Delves. Instant PTSD plus no one really wants to run Delves and go “Oh no today I couldn’t complete this Delve because I didn’t get +66% HP, +15% Haste, 25% vers, and crit by 20%”. Scrap that idea completely. We tested it in SL didnt work. Give those powers to Brann but not players.

Final bosses
They feel always the same just more HP and do more damage. Would be nice to have weekly affixes for bosses that will add some new special abilities each week so its not repetitive (if that’s not a thing)

Tiers above 8
On tier 10 I experienced that in Delves there were spawned additional Nerubian mobs (saw them in Kriegvals Rest) but they might have weird spawn points. Example: There are two groups of 3 mobs in a room close to each other and right on them were those Nerubians spawned so it made me pull 9-12 mobs because Nerubians had spawn on top of other mobs which was impossible to kill on Tier 10. Tier 10 and 11 felt completely impossible to finish as DPS. Had to switch to tank to beat them. Was literally getting one-shotted.

Welcome addition
Would welcome more puzzle chests, rewards behind closed doors that require some puzzle solutions, more hidden loot behind jumping puzzles.

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  • With the lasted Beta Build Bran seems to have developed an issue where if I die within the dev Bran will lose all interest if following me about if I have to cross water, use the mushroom “jumps” or any similar system.
    Prior to the 1st death he will happily follow me no matter what but after a death he will only come with me in delves where my character can keep her feet firmly on solid ground at all times.
    When I don’t he will generally stubbornly hang out near the entrance. Where this happens the intermediate spawn points stop working any any subsequent deaths will always send me to the entrance.

  • When tyring to leave the delves the hitbox for the exit seems to often me maligned with the graphics creating a minigame of figuring out where to click to get out.

  • Hearthstones do not work inside the delves.

Hey i got a feature recommendation!
As a dps player you have long q times for dungeons and other activities. As such i went into a delve while i was looking for group, hoping to do something with my time while waiting. I got a queue pop mid delve and took it. When i came back i was ported out the delve. I would love to see that you would be able to, especially as a dps, join queued content and when you come back you are still in the delve.

Another option is to pause the queue but still count down the timer so that when you leave the delve you are higher priority. This is a feature that i currently love as a DPS on remix that i can join a scenario (that you dont need tanks and healers for and therefore lower q) and when you leave you almost always have an instant dungeon pop. Makes you feel like you arent wasting time as a dps player which is a nice change of pace.

After leveling and doing some delves, the one thing that really bothers me is that you can’t hide the nameplate of Brann and when doing Kriegval’s Rest or Waterworks the item you carry around blocks your mouse. This might be due to being beta, but it blocks me sometimes clicking targets or items and after a while it becomes quiet annoying.

Other then that I like the idea of delves, but I agree they sometimes might take a bit to long?

the new changes seems to make delves even more diffucult or is it just me?
Brann doesn’t throw as nearly as many potions now, and now we can only die a limited of 5 times before being booted out of the delve.

I tested the death limit - and it doesn’t kick you out - nor does it reset progress the only change is the chest icon get’s crossed out - I assume to signify no or less rewards.

I’m unclear at the moment if the tooltip is just badly worded or if the “retreat” mechanic is broken.

Lots of interesting posts, I just want to give my feedback.

There are indeed a few points here and there that needs some attention, previous posters can do a better job then I do, but overall I have a blast in the delves.
Is it Spiral Weave you need to hop from point to point to avoid the webs, I am not sure with the name, but holy cow that delve is a ton of fun, it gives me the feeling i play the WoW version of everybody’s favorite spider.

For me personally Delves could be bigger, maybe with some extra bosses here and there, I would love to see a “SuperDelve” where you get that raid feeling.
I am not sure if it is allowed to mention this here but imagine this:

Azeroth gets into your mind and guides you thru a series of quests to a location somewhere on(not inside but on the planet) Azeroth.
Here some being is talking to you to set the mood, and invites you to go inside the Delve, and bring back a certain item, lets say the Heart of Azeroth from the past.

This item needs to be brought to an NPC and that NPC knows some interesting stuff to open it up, and then the heart guides you to another Delve and when entering that Delve you come into a huge building that is pretty straightforward and not a puzzle to go thru and here you encounter more delve end bosses.
Every boss unlocks at the end a chest, and bosses can be skipped, but the more bosses you kill the greater the reward, but the catch is that if you start the Delve at level 5, and kill the boss on that level, the next boss will be level 6, and after that kill that next boss will be a level higher.
So the Delve itself gets more difficult the more you progress in the Delve.
And ofcourse at the end if you kill all bosses there will be amazing treasures to be found, with the chance of dropping an epic mount/pet/item and the more you do this super delve the bigger the chance gets you get that epic drop.

When that epic item drops, the chance reverts back to zero, and you need to do the delve an amount of time again to get a really high chance on that epic mount/pet/item again.
That item can be sold on the Auction House in the case someone gets it again.

Not sure if the above ever will be in the game, but hey someone can have a dream. :grinning:

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I seem to have an issue with Brann that if his level is higher than 3, if I logged off and come back on later to do a Delve, he’s down to level 3 even though he has abilities that are available at higher levels.
Right now he should be level 6, got the Utility Curios unlocked but his level is back down to 3.

Hello everyone! We’d like to share some updates for you on Delves.

Tuning and Experience

Across the board we’ve increased the XP rewards from delves during level up as they felt a bit too low.

We’ve also done a general tuning pass across all tiers and will continue to monitor difficulty for all specs and classes. From your feedback and from our testing we saw that delves became particularly punishing throughout level up, and that many specs felt like they had to be several item levels higher than the recommended item level to survive.

We’re continuing to review the tuning for classes that are struggling in delves. We’ve seen your feedback on which classes are having a hard time. We also have our own data that shows performance in each delve by class and spec. We’ll be using your feedback and our data points to help improve the experience for players that are struggling. Keep it coming and we’ll keep you updated!

Bountiful Delves

We are in the middle of reviewing how we want bountiful delves to work at max level. Here’s what we’ll be rolling out:

  • Bountiful Delves will be consumed upon completion.
  • Bountiful Delves base chests are upgraded in quality.
  • Locked chests are still there, but will go away if you lose all of your lives.

Our goal with Bountiful Delves being consumed is to encourage players to see more delves and their variants. We’re modifying how many keys players can get per week while also increasing the base rewards from Bountiful Delves so they’re still worth running even without any keys.

We’re still working on balancing these numbers so please give us feedback as these new systems come online!

Brann Bronzebeard

We’re continuing to do work to tweak Brann and improve the experience with him and understanding what he’s doing from the moment to moment gameplay. These will be rolled out throughout upcoming patches.

  • Moved several of Brann’s “big” abilities to be unlocked at earlier levels.
  • Modified the number of abilities Brann has to be more readable
  • Brann’s “ultimate” abilities will now go on a rotation with each other to ensure he consistently uses them throughout combat. This means Brann’s use of his bigger abilities will be more focused and spread out to avoid a situation where it feels like Brann isn’t doing anything.
  • Dwarven Medicine will now heal player pets.
  • We’re aware of an issue of curios and Brann’s levels being reset and are looking into the root cause of this.

General

  • Player class cooldowns will now reset after wiping to a boss encounter.

Tak-Rethan Abyss and The Sinkhole

  • The Aquatic Hex will no longer apply slowfall.

The Dread Pit

  • The Skardyn Lure for one of the variants will now pull skardyn even if they’re in combat. Other parts of this mechanic have also been tweaked.
  • Removed the nerubian web spreaders from the skardyn variant.

Skittering Breach

  • Moved the web spreaders to be within the cave system of the delve to give our other mechanics some breathing room.

Hello everyone! You can now obtain Restored Coffer Keys from Zandelvari for use in Bountiful Delves on the This Goes to Eleven realm.

tier 8 was supposed to give heroic raiding gear, but it actual just give normal raiding gear. not sure if it’s supposed to be coming form the vault or not.
It’s weird that you get something 3 ilvl higher, when the rec ilvl is 600

Hello everyone! We’ve got some more delve news.

We’ve activated Season 1 of Delves on our Alleria and Khadgar realms. This means players can begin to access tiers 4 and up naturally to experience our seasonal progression. It also means the Great Vault is activated for players to see our new World slot! Xekvir’s lair is still planned to only be accessible when the season goes live after the expansion launches.

Please hop on in and try out our sneak peak of Delves Season 1!

Known Issues:

  • Delver’s Journey may not properly fill up your seasonal progression bar. We’re investigating a fix for this.

Heroic gear from highest delves and Mythic gear from Delve Weekly vault pls, or this is dead on arrival and pointless to play. Even if you make only level 13 delve give heroic gear, it should be accessible. If Delves dont match m+ and raiding in gear, then they are NOT another pillar of the game - they are obsolete content.
You can make the level 13 delve as hard as you like to match other content.

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On Alleria realm the campaign is bugged for 1 week almost and we cannot finish it to test the delves at level 4 or higher, The quest New Candle, New Hope is not working, fix it so we can test this, i have been reporting this for the past week but no changes.

It is pointless for you -and my main- and for about 5-10% of the playerbase, who do mythic raids and 8+ m+. For the rest -and my alts- it will be a great addition to the game, also soloable content should never-ever provide gear comparable to grouped content, in fact I am still salty about how easy it is to get myth track gear from m+ compared to raiding.
It is refreshing to have a game system, which is progressively gets harder and provides gear that I don’t have to bother on my main, but would still play the heck out of it with my alts to keep them so-so up-to-date if I have to tag-in an m+ or raid with them. Also the casuals (about 2/3 of our roster (relatives, friends)) in my guild who only show up for the catch-up/alt runs finally won’t only have outdoor gear and no idea what a game mode that provides challenge looks like.

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I ran a few 10-11s after the changes this week both on my mage (frost and fire) and DK (blood). The balance is way better than it was previously but it still has a long way to go.
The amount of unavoidable and avoidable damage is still unbalanced, the unavoidable damage is too high for classes with active defensives and/or without self-heal, while the avoidable damage could get higher.
On frostfire frost mage I ran 3 10s and 2 11s, only 1 10 was inside the death count and an 11 was unfinishable as the end boss (Kobold one, can’t remember the name) had some unavoidable, or constantly recasted abilities that I couldn’t live through and I only had damage to burst it down to 10% on my best try, before I gave up on the 12th attempt.
On sunfury fire out of the 3 11s I tried I was inside the death limit once and outside, but finishing the other two. With very carefull pulling it is possible but I went to play with my dog several times between pulls while waiting for the combustion cd to come back during the run.
On deahbringer blood DK I ran 2 11s, both inside the death limit, died only once when I stopped paying attention for a while and haven’t moved out of a fixate effect for about 10 seconds. There were some close calls but I had a way-waaaay easier time with DK than on mage still.
Bran’s healing is still unnoticable except for the glowy orb ultimate.
The amount of forced movement and charge/shadowstep abilities is still too much as they cannot be played around.
But all-in-all all of these problems are for the optional high delves, on the max reward level it is easily doable, but we need more avoidable damage abilities and less unavoidable damage to have a more balanced experience and more of a skill challenge and not an ilvl challenge.

I wanted to try out the tank changes in a delve with my Blood DK, and something broke in the delve scaling. In an 11 my tank got autoattacked for 1,8-2,5 million damage, went back in an 8 tha autoattack damage was arounf 1,5 million.
Thought it was a tank only problem with the changes, so I tried with my mage, 1,2 mill autoattack on 11, and 550-600k autoattacks on an 8.
Soooo I tried it with a shaman healer as well: 650-700k autoattacks in an 8. It is needless to say, the furthest I got was on my mage when I was able to kill one mob with full offensive and defensive cds.
The scaling has to be looked at, as it is right now, it is unplayable.

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I’m going to edit this post, this isn’t what I originally wrote but I’ve decided to re-evaluate.

This idea that your gear in Delves “scales” is nonsense. I appreciate them doing this for testing purposes but the difference between a full set of 600+ gear and the gear you start with is absolutely enormous. Don’t make the mistake I did of leaping into the harder delves in the starting Greens you are given in the Beta. Make sure you are fully kitted out.

However, even when fully geared, there is a COLOSSAL disparity between certain specs and classes. Tackling a level 8 Delve on a Feral Druid feels near impossible whereas it is a total breeze on an Arms Warrior, Survival Hunter or Unholy DK.

There is definitely more work to be done. Level 9 (and 10 and 11, I imagine) is frankly ridiculous on any class. The damage the mobs start outputting becomes far beyond what could be deemed ‘reasonable’. Brann can’t keep up with the healing either.

Still can’t get past a level 9 as a Survival or BM Hunter. Kriegval’s Rest for example, the Giant Candle in the centre of the 3rd room is guarded by a Spider with 26 Million HP and a boss with 45 Million HP. They one shot my Pet and 2 hit me. How is this reasonable? What possible counterplay is there other than grouping up?

I’m fully behind the idea of Warbands being utilised more here. Taking a member of your Warband to fill the Tanking role, for example, would be hugely beneficial for solo players.

Update

Completed a level 11 Underkeep Delve on Unholy DK, finally.

9’s on Prot Warrior, Enhancement Shaman and Survival Hunter

My criticism has still not changed. The damage taken is still wholly unreasonable for most classes.