Feedback: Demon Hunters

Another momentum opponent

Let me prephase this by saying that Im quite confident I will continue to enjoy dh. I am a fervent momentum opponent, however, so seeing how you double down on momentum, Im afraid.

Let me explain what I dislike about the momentum playstyle. I picked dh first and foremost for the class fantasy, secondly for the mobility and qol. I like having few buttons, and I love being able to dash around the battlefield if need be. Playing momentum requires me to use the mobility for damage, however, and when I need it, its not available. I tried playing momentum a couple of raid nights, and I found myself often simply walking to my volcanic heart spot, almost being overrun by paladins of all classes on their ponies. That doesnt feel good at all (well, it did for the paladin, he had a good laugh). Its especially frustrating in m+ with so many ground effects and small hitbox mobs.

Now I get that momentum is meant to be part of the DH fantasy of zooming around, but I would argue that this can be achieved with animations even. I feel quite dashy already, with a blade dance every couple of seconds. I feel dashy when I use fel rush to stay on the boss or getting far soaks last second before dashing right back, on rashok and magmorax for example. As for the latter, I lose these moments when I have to use fel rush for damage, so momentum sometimes even works against that fantasy.

As mentioned, I had hopes that with the talent rework, momentum goes away completely. I’ve given up on that hope now since you doubled down on it. That is okay, I acknowledge there are players who actually enjoy it, and I respect that. My fear is now that there are so many talents for it that you simply cant avoid some of them, making you dip into that playstyle. Please don’t let it come to that.

I would also ask you to not make the gap too high between momentum and no momentum. This tier, I already accepted my output to be below momentum players (albeit marginally) because I’d rather lose my raid slot to someone else before I play momentum. I raid mythic, and we are among the top 500 guilds afaik, so there is a certain pressure for performance, although not very much so. Luckily, Im the only dh in my guild. The other 2 stopped playing because of momentum and their unwillingness to accept a dps loss, so chaos brand is whats keeping me quite safe for the moment.

One last suggestion I want to make is for a new playstyle/fantasy idea, which is probably out of the question for 10.2, but might be pondered for the next expansion and beyond. I realize you cant simply delete the momentum package, because you’ll need a replacement. I would like to propose an aerial playstyle that focuses more on dh having wings, somewhat inspired by illidan’s air phase. Im not talking about perma flying, but maybe we could start with talents not unlike priest’s new ultimate penance? Let dhs fly into the air and unleash a 6 second channel of fel barrage or eye beams everywhere on a big cooldown. Frankly, after seeing ultimate penance, I was 70% positive that the talent rework for dh will encompass fel barrage to do a very similar thing. Imagine my face when I not only saw that it didnt, but also found momentum support =(

As for the tier set, I dont really care. i hardly know what mine does even now, its a passive get and forget, so if the tuning is right, I wont mind the next one either. Please dont make it about momentum though lol.

Finally, please add customization options for our demon forms. Same treatment as warlock pets got maybe. While youre at it, please scale the size of glaives when in demon form. I feel myself almost forced to use the warglaives of azzinoth because all others look like teeny tiny toys in the hands of the demon form and it looks ridiculous imo.

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Delete Momentum. Fel Rush should be pure utility, not a DPS maintenance buff.

If you want to give us some skill based movement ability, do something cool with The Hunt. At the moment, it’s weak and clunky. E.g. make it like druid Orbital Strike or those Evoker spells, so it’s easy to use effectively on mob packs.

This is an senseless take.

Momentum is the greatest Talent in our entire tree for one simple reason: It enables a completely different playstyle, which is far from the monotonous norm of other Melee specs. It is fast, fluid and feels amazing to play.

Momentum is the best thing that ever happened to Havoc. I picked it in Legion, and I’ll continue to pick it to this day.

just adding… would really like “Consume Soul” got a small update aswell… in M+ it do cloase to 90% overheal and only 10% actual heal…

Any chance we could get a Shield effect?. 10-15% of overheal that last 30sec or until damage away.

With the PTR build that went live moments ago:

    • Spectral Sight cooldown is now 1 minute 30 seconds (was 1 minute, and 30 seconds with rank 2 talented).
    • Spectral Sight cooldown reduced to 30 seconds (was 1 minute/30 seconds), and Haste now affects its global cooldown.
    • Demonic’s duration for Demon form reduced to 5 seconds (was 6 seconds).
    • Elysian Decree has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
    • Fodder to the Flame has been moved to the Demon Hunter class tree.
    • Fodder to the Flame now increases Spectral Sight cooldown by 30 seconds in addition to previous effect.
    • The Hunt initial damage increased by 22% and damage over time damage increased by 30%.
    • Sigil of Flame now moved to Demon Hunter baseline.
    • Sigil of Flame initial damage increased by 200%.
    • New Talent: Live by the Glaive – When you parry an attack or have one of your attacks parried, restore 2% of max health and 10 Fury. This effect may occur once every 5 seconds.
    • Unnatural Malice, Relentless Pursuit, Extended Sigils, and Misery in Defeat have been removed.
    • Unrestrained Fury is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max Fury by 20 (was 10/20).
    • Shattered Restoration is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Shattered Soul healing by 10% (was 5/10%).
    • Illidari Knowledge is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and reduces magic damage taken by 5% (was 3/6%).
    • Will of the Illidari is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases max health by 5% (was 3/6%).
    • Rush of Chaos is now a 2-rank talent (was 1) and reduces Metamorphosis cooldown by 30/60 seconds (was 60 seconds).
    • Quickened Sigils no longer reduces cooldowns of Sigil skills.
    • Erratic Felheart now reduces cooldown of Fel Rush/Infernal Strike by 8/15% (was 10/20%)
    • Flames of Fury has been adjusted – Now a 2-rank talent (was 1). Sigil of Flame deals 35/70% increased damage and generates 1/2 Fury per target (was 2).
    • Havoc
      • Dancing with Fate is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Blade Dance final slash damage bonus is now 25% (was 20/40%).
      • Blind Fury now increases Blade Dance’s final slash damage bonus by 25/50% (was 20/40%).
      • Blind Fury now is now a 1-rank talent (was 2), Eye Beam generates 40 Fury per second (was 20/40) and has 10% increased damage and duration (was 10/20%).
        • This change has been reverted.
      • New Talent: Demon Hide – Increases magical damage dealt by 5%, and reduces physical damage taken by 5%.
      • New Talent: Dash of Chaos – For 2 seconds after using Fel Rush, activating it again will dash back towards your initial location.
      • New Talent: Scars of Suffering– Increases Versatility by 4% and reduces threat generated by 8%.
      • New Talent: Chaotic Disposition – Each time you deal Chaos damage, there is a 7.77% chance to duplicate 33% of the damage, up to 3/7 total times. 2-rank talent.
      • Eye Beam damage increased by 15%.
      • Fel Barrage damage increased by 100%.
      • Isolated Prey now causes Immolation Aura to always critically strike (was 30% increased damage).
      • Throw Glaive now triggers Cycle of Hatred’s effect when Furious Throws is selected.
      • Soulrend is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and causes 100% of damage to be dealt over time as Chaos (was 60/120%).
      • Shattered Destiny now increases Demon form duration per 10 Fury spend (was 8).
    • Vengeance
      • New Talent: Ascending Flame – Sigil of Flame initial damage is increased by 50%. Multiple applications of Sigil of Flame may overlap.
      • New Talent: Illuminated Sigils – Sigil skills have 1 additional charge. You have 20% increased chance to parry attacks from enemies afflicted by Sigil of Flame.
      • Agonizing Flames is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases movement speed by 10% (was 10/20%) and Immolation Aura duration by 50% (was 25/50%).
      • Extended Spikes is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases duration of Demon Spikes by 2 seconds (was 1/2 seconds).
      • Burning Blood is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and increases Fire damage by 10% (was 5/10%).
      • Darkglare Boon is now a 1-rank talent (was 2) and Fel Devastation refreshes 20-40% of cooldown (was 10-20/20-40%) and refunds 20-40 Fury (was 10-20/20-40 Fury).
      • Chains of Anger now increases duration of Sigil effects by 2 seconds in addition to its previous effect.
      • Soul Carver now generates 3 soul fragments on initial strike (was 2).

Not a fan of the shattered destiny nerf.

Not a fan of the undocumented demonic nerf that we already had last week.

Other than that, seems pretty good overall.

Read the US forum.

So much more feedback there.

But it seams like you wanna stay with the TG set bonus… that will lead to a TG build most likely.

To make TG even better in ST fights then allow it to hit the same target? It will jump to 2-3 other targets but if there is non it will return and hit same again.

Stacking soulrent for total damage done.

This would make it better.

Maybe even a talent. “magnetic glave”

PLEASE do not make Mortal Dance a choice node with Deflecting Dance. This is absolutely terrible for PvP. Just make Mortal Dance baseline, it already is for other classes such as Hunters, Monks, Warriors for their key spells.

Wasn’t necessary.

The redesign for Fodder will be extremely clunky because Spectral Sight reduces your movement speed which can lead to terrible, unnecessary deaths. Spectral Sight was initially created as a mirror anti-stealth ability, meaning it slows you as you use it. If you want to keep the current design changes, REMOVE the SLOW on your character during Spectral Sight and REMOVE it cancelling out from crowd control

Suggestion: Move Fodder talent elsewhere and make it a 2 choice talent whether it works the same way as before or the new way with Spectral Sight. In certain situations, especially PvP, Fodder via Spectral sight will feel extremely bad.

This was also not necessary.

Could make this a smaller bonus and have it deplete fury slower. It just goes off way too fast for a 90 second cooldown. We are tired of small windows of damage.

The rest is pretty alright overall, but PLEASE make Mortal Dance baseline, this is literally a PVP ONLY talent, and will heavily impact choosing between survivalbility or having an antiheal effect (which nearly all melees have baseline already built into their main dmg spell).

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The choice between Momentum and Inertia is very good, and offers a clear-cut decision of playstyle.

I’m mostly concerned about Fodder to the Flame. I get the fantasy of you using Spectral Sight to detect the Demon, but this is -very- clunky to use in the middle of combat.

Wouldn’t it be wiser to enable Fodder to become a choice node with itself? So that we can pick between the passive variant, and the new active variant of the ability?

I personally would prefer to keep Fodder of the Flame precisely as it was before - getting that feeling of a Demon trying to take you down at an (in)opportune moment was very nice, and gave a good dopamine sensation during combat.

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They also overnerfed fury gen, it’s basically impossible to make a no momentum/inertia build that doesn’t suffer from massive downtime.

I don’t understand why only US Forum feedback gets responses by Blizzard…

Might be due to our “Class Dev” sits in the US and the Feedback post is atm 535 replys and 8,6k view’s

and EU is 31 Reply and 1.3k View… death just like our Class forum in EU…

There is also another problem with nerfing shattered destiny, you might not be able to fit 2 death sweeps anymore, unless you have a lot of haste.

This is NOT a good change.

I’m kinda annoyed with fel rush being tied with inertia / momentum when we have other mobility talent.

I understand that the DH design is centered around mobility - and that’s fine - but it clashes with some encounters design and the way dungeon are done

I don’t want to pick a talent needing me to fel rush that I wont be able to use plainly when there are mobs that are condensed and packed that I could aggro all the time.

I don’t want to pick a talent needing me to fel rush when the boss encounter is designed strongly against it ( Sludgefist in castle nathria is an example. Those chains were anti-fel rushing )

I also dont want to ‘creatively rush’ into a wall or some other " out of the box thinking " to avoid dashing too far away so I can proc those talents, it feels dumb.

I also dont want to use fel rush all the time when there is still this bug that send you miles away like a canon ball and that could end up making you aggro a whole wing of a dungeon

I don’t want fel rush to be removed from those talents either, so there is a fix that can be done :slightly_smiling_face:

Include all the " movement " related talent with inertia or fel rush - some of them are under exploited - and I’m thinking about felblade, or vengeful retreat -for example .

  • Fel blade should proc momentum AND inertia. ( since Fel blade make you stay within target range, it remove the risks of pulling stuff or dying from some anti movement mechanism )
  • The Hunt should proc inertia
  • Vengeful retrat should proc inertia

The CD is not the same - yes - but at least it offers some alternative when you’re in situation that are not fel rush-compatible and this is strongly needed.

Otherwise, the changes in general are good and welcomed, thank you .

I really like all the magic damage talents. It looks like a magic damage build will be possible if the tuning is right. Big thumbs up for that one

Some nice changes! Love baseline FE, AFI and Inertia, could be really fun. Fodder feels really bad to use with an utility.

Also I really think the colors and animations of The Hunt and Elysian Decree should match demon hunters, doesnt fit at all.

Eye beam feels a little weak now, I think for an ability so iconic to the demon hunter blind fury could be baseline? I feel it’s currently a button we press just to get into demonic and needs to feel more impactful, this will free up space to move bottom choice nodes in our tree so we can access them and complete certain builds without losing out on other core/must take talents

i think fodder should be its own button so we aren’t clashing utility with damage

the hunt re-colour or glyph? i would like to see it tied in with our fel theme

Overall I like all other changes, good work!


Could really use the old Shadowlands Blur CD back instead of any shield talents.

Used to be 43s. Would be reasonable to at least make it 45-50 seconds.

Vengeance Demon Hunter with 30 seconds CD on Immolation Aura feels very very very very ver bad. Revert it back pls.

Removing Fodder altogether is completely terrible as is in the newest notes. This spell is heavily relied upon in PvP for survivalbility and getting a big buff up for yourself. Please return the choice node with Collective Anguish, it wasn’t going to harm anybody…

Also please remove Mortal Dance as a talent and make it baseline for Blade dance. Thanks :slight_smile: