Feedback: Druids

Most of you? I dont know a single Feral who played EoFS and Apex. So your argument is flawed.

It still needs a different glow. If you dont play with external WAs they just overlap, even more so with Clearcasting. Yeah its location is poor, but I mentioned that aswell, it should be on the side like Lunar Inspiration, as a choice, not a forced-choice.

Also, as i wrote, EoFS says ‘finishers’ but doesnt work on PW or Rip, either this is a tooltip error or an ability error.

Uh are we just gunna sleep on feral being totally disgusting in PvP?

Indeed. That would be impossible, since they’re both non-covenant legendaries and can’t be used together.

No, it looks like you’re trying to claim I said something I didn’t for the purpose of picking a fight. Presumably because I disagreed with you.

However, I think I understand what you meant now when you said:

I assumed you wanted the talents themselves changed rather than the UI effect that shows when one or the other has procced. If it’s a change to the UI effect you want, then sure, I’m in support of that. I use weakauras and have the UI mostly hidden in combat, so it doesn’t affect me, but if the same effect is being used to show different procs, that’s confusing and most likely an oversight on the part of the devs.

I still think EoFS needs changes, however.

Hi long time Druid Just Thought I’d give some feedback and some ideas for the Druid class and spec trees.

I feel like Hibernate should just be baseline to the class as I’m almost sure it will never be played and become a dead talent. Which is kind of sad since i feel like it takes away from the druid classes flare. Although, I like the idea that you can just talent out of abilites you don’t need i feel like this does apply to this ability in particular.

Cyclone needs to be more accessible for ferals as its really out of the way.

Rather than changing and removing starfalls niche of the large ring around the Chicken. Add Hurricane back in the class tree and have it act how starfall did in BFA or whatever its getting changed to. Now that the Eclipse system is changing to never having to leave a certain eclipse this could give a good reason into going into solar ecplise. As well you already have a mob in ruby sanctum before the last boss who casts an ability called thudnerstorm i believe and you can just use that for the ability animation just smaller :slight_smile:

Lastly In the Resto tree Flourish and VI is not a good choice node and i feel like it could be better as flourish is almost always better apart from pvp. I have an idea to fix this by having a second choice node.

Choice node 1 - To Replace flourish in the Choice nade
Verdants infusion - Swiftmend no longer consumes a heal over time effect, and extends the duration of your heal over time effects on the target by 10 sec.
Verdants blossom - Swiftmend no longer consumes a heal over time effect, and increases the rate of your heal over time effects by 25% for 8 sec.
Choice node 2
Flourish - Extends the duration of all of your heal over time effects on friendly targets within 60 yards by 8 sec, and increases the rate of your heal over time effects by 100% for 8 sec.
Enrichment - Extends the duration of all of your heal over time effects on friendly targets within 60 yards by 8 sec, and makes all HOTs give a 9% DR or Absorbs shield.

Hello again,

I got another mastery redesign idea for resto druids that might be more interesting than my previous iterations.

Mastery Harmony - Each HoT effect increases your healing on the target by X% and over healing done by your HoTs plant a Living Seed on that target, which accumulates X% of HoT overhealing done up to X% of your max health. Living Seed will bloom and heal your target when his health falls below 100% - n*X% health. X - mastery rating, n - number of HoT effects active on the target.

So for example, you have 1 HoT on your target and 10% mastery rating. This means when your target falls below 90% health Living Seed will heal for 10% of your max health (or less, depending on overhealing done). If you have 2 HoTs Living seed will proc at 80% health. 3 HoTs - at 70% health, and so on.

Please upvote if you like this Mastery redesign idea for restoration druid.

Hello again, Feral Druids.

We have some upcoming changes to the talent tree to share with you. Thank you very much for all your feedback on the current version of the talent tree. There have been lots of thoughtful, informative posts in places like this thread and the Druid forums that really helped us understand your experiences with the tree and what you’re hoping to do with it. It’s very much appreciated.

Left Side and Right Side of the Talent Tree

We heard your feedback that the left and right sides of the tree feel too heavily weighted toward single target and AOE respectively. We like the two sides of the tree having a clear identity, but we want players to have paths to get talents they want from either side in either situation, so we’ve moved talents around to facilitate taking some talents from both sides in both ST and AOE.

Energy and Combo Points

Opening up both sides of the tree to both ST and AOE builds also let us give the two sides of the tree different flavors of resource generation. If you want to empower Tiger’s Fury and generate more combo points, those talents are on the left. If you want more Energy, there’s more of those talents on the right.

We want investing in Energy or combo points to be intentional choices players make, rather than something they pick up automatically on the way to other talents. With that in mind we moved Tiger’s Tenacity (formerly Eye of Fearful Symmetry) and provided alternative pathing options to reach Feral Frenzy and Apex Predator’s Craving.

Berserk

We want Berserk to be a powerful, broadly valuable, rotation-impacting cooldown. It currently suffers in AOE because none of Feral’s AOE builders benefit from Berserk, so we updated it to make Swipe generate a bonus combo point the same way Shred does. Changes to Tiger’s Tenacity (formerly Eye of Fearful Symmetry) and the new Relentless Predator also give consistent options to players who are looking for more resources during Berserk.

Tuning

We’ve made tuning changes to some talents in this revision, and while there will be more tuning to come, we want to speak to some of what we’re trying to accomplish. In general, we don’t want any talent to be so powerful or impactful that all players feel obligated to pick it. That dampens choice and build diversity. This brings us to Convoke the Spirits and Soul of the Forest.

Convoke is an extremely powerful single button to press in Shadowlands, and it remains so in Dragonflight. Its current version with Celestial Spirits is too strong for 2 talent points. Our first attempt at tuning this was to not include the cooldown reduction from Celestial Spirits, but we hear you that a 1 minute Convoke is appealing and fits well in rotations, and that the Convoke bonus in Ashamane’s Guidance is underwhelming, so we re-added it. To bring down the power of the current version, we’ve removed the ability for Convoke to cast Tiger’s Fury. There are several talents that benefit Tiger’s Fury, and removing it from Convoke allows us to keep those strong because Convoke isn’t increasing its uptime dramatically.

Soul of the Forest is a power outlier because of the massive Energy generation it provides, pushing it into “obligatory” range. We’d like investing in Energy to be something players can choose to do at multiple points throughout the tree, so we’re toning down Soul of the Forest.

Miscellaneous

Double-Clawed Rake has been moved to make it easier to pick up. Lunar Inspiration has been moved to a more natural place for a DoT cleave build. Scent of Blood’s benefit was very niche, so we replaced it with Relentless Predator, which reduces the energy cost of Ferocious Bite, to provide an energy generation option with more general value. Infected Wounds has been moved under Sudden Ambush.

New Tree Layout

Here’s the new tree layout and a list of changes in the next build:

Row 2:

  • Primal Claws (formerly Piercing Claws) moved to Row 2.

  • Primal Claws no longer grants crit. Each point now grants a 10% chance for combo point generators to generate an extra combo point.

Row 3:

  • Merciless Strikes (formerly Improved Bleeds) now increases Swipe damage against bleeding targets by 10%, down from 20%. There are other talents to boost Swipe elsewhere in the tree, and we don’t want this to be an autopick in AOE.

  • Predator moved to row 3.

  • Double-Clawed Rake moved to row 3.

Row 4:

  • Protective Growth moved to row 4. Damage reduction increased from 3% to 5%.

  • Tireless Energy moved to row 4. No longer grants haste. Points now increase maximum Energy by 30/60 and passive Energy regeneration by 10%/20%.

  • Pouncing Strikes moved to row 4.

  • Lunar Inspiration moved to row 4.

Row 5:

  • Rampant Ferocity (formerly Ferocious Frenzy) moved to row 5.

  • Berserk now causes Swipe to generate an additional combo point during Berserk.

Row 6:

  • Infected Wounds moved to row 6.

  • Dreadful Bleeding moved to row 6.

  • Relentless Predator is a new talent in row 6. Relentless Predator reduces Energy costs of Ferocious Bite by 20%. This includes both the base cost and the additional Energy that can be spent for bonus damage.

Row 7:

  • Tiger’s Tenacity (was Eye of Fearful Symmetry) changed to a 1 point talent and moved to be part of a choice node with Raging Fury (look at that choice icon!). Now causes Tiger’s Fury to grant 1 combo point after your next 3 finishers (up from 1 for your next 2 for each point).

Row 8:

  • Frantic Momentum changed to a 2 point talent and moved to row 8. Now grants a 3%/6% chance per combo point spent to increase your Haste by 10% for 6 sec.

  • Cat’s Curiosity now recovers 25% of energy cost for abilities it affects for each point, up from 15%.

Row 9:

  • Convoke the Spirits can no longer cast Tiger’s Fury.

  • Soul of the Forest now grants 3 Energy per combo point spent, down from 5.

  • Rip and Tear: Applying Rip to a target applies a Tear that deals 6% of the new Rip’s damage over 6 seconds. (Was a flat amount.)

Row 10:

  • Moved Feral Frenzy & Apex Predator’s Craving to row 10 and added some routing options.

  • Unbridled Swarm is now a single point talent and grants a 60% chance for swarms to split.

  • Ashamane’s Guidance now also reduces Convoke the Spirit’s cooldown by 50%.

Renamed Talents

  • Improved Bleeds is now Merciless Strikes

  • Ferocious Frenzy is now Rampant Ferocity

  • Eye of Fearful Symmetry is now Tiger’s Tenacity

  • Bite Force is now Lion’s Strength

Removed Talents

  • Scent of Blood

Thanks again for all of your testing and feedback. It’s especially valuable to read about the builds you create, the thoughts that go into your decisions, and what you experience when trying to build for a certain strategy.

4 Likes

Thank you for the Feral changes.

However you guys still really need to take a good look at the Druid class tree. The pathing options are awful, Furor and Heart of the Wild are both generally unwanted over Nature’s Vigil, and too much of their core utility that had been baseline for years have been made into talents. At the very least the talent paths to get them should be tweaked.

5 Likes

Insanely happy with these changes it’s moving in a really awesome direction and I can’t wait to get my hands on it to play with it further.

I don’t want to feedback on this too much until I’ve actually had practical hands on to the tree but one note I do want to include is that

Convoke is an extremely powerful single button to press in Shadowlands, and it remains so in Dragonflight. Its current version with Celestial Spirits is too strong for 2 talent points. Our first attempt at tuning this was to not include the cooldown reduction from Celestial Spirits, but we hear you that a 1 minute Convoke is appealing and fits well in rotations, and that the Convoke bonus in Ashamane’s Guidance is underwhelming, so we re-added it. To bring down the power of the current version, we’ve removed the ability for Convoke to cast Tiger’s Fury. There are several talents that benefit Tiger’s Fury, and removing it from Convoke allows us to keep those strong because Convoke isn’t increasing its uptime dramatically.

I think this section somewhat misses the mark, currently the goal when playing convoke is to always cast convoke while you have tiger’s fury up in order to prevent it from casting tiger’s fury and increasing your odds of more bites, made even more encouraged as Convoke and Tiger’s Fury naturally sync CD.

I don’t see anything in the tree currently that would change this from being the case, and in fact with Raging Fury (was Behemoth) it encourages it even more. I think if your goal is to take some of the power out of convoke the spirits which is a goal I wholeheartedly agree with you probably need to rethink this particular approach.

One further thing that I hope gets looked at that I don’t think I’ve mentioned before is accessibility of utility in cat form, things like innervate and rebirth taking you out of cat (or bear this is relevant for guardian too) is not very cozy and makes it more unpleasant to use than it probably should be

Thanks for the follow up and I look forward to crafting further feedback!

4 Likes

Hello Restoration Druids!

We’ve made a few adjustments to the updated Restoration Druid tree based on recent feedback, and we’d like to discuss the upcoming changes you can expect to see.

Node Positioning:

We’ve changed the positioning of a few key nodes to better reflect their power level. For example, Nurturing Dormancy will be moving below Gate 2 and Rampant Growth will be moving above Gate 2. These shifts are also intended to open a few improved pathing options for builds that may have seen some pathways particularly limiting.

Final Gate:

The positioning of nodes in the final gate has changed quite a bit. Much of the same structure is in place, but there are more connections between nodes. We felt it was better to have nodes always leading you further down in this case. Unbridled Swarm has also been reduced to a 1-point node with its full effect.

Cenarius’ Guidance:

The last Not Yet Implented (NYI) spell on the Restoration Druid tree will be ready for testing in the next build. Like the Feral Druid tree, this restores the full functionality of the Celestial Spirits legendary as well as offering a bonus to Incarnation: Tree of Life depending on your choice in the preceding node.

Here’s a look at the new layout:

  • Cenarius’ Guidance. New Talent, row 9. During Incarnation: Tree of Life, you gain Clearcasting every 6 sec. The cooldown of Incarnation: Tree of Life is reduced by 1.5 seconds when Lifebloom blooms or 1.0 seconds when Regrowth’s initial heal critically strikes. Convoke the Spirits’ cooldown is reduced by 50% and its duration and number of spells cast is reduced by 25%. Convoke the Spirits has an increased chance to use an exceptional spell or ability.

We really appreciate the feedback you’ve provided. Thanks again!

2 Likes

Personally I think berserk sickle was great. Wish we could keep that instead of +1 pt swipes.

1 Like

Hello guys!

As I was testing Balance druid I encountered some issues with the new design of mastery. It gives a nice bonus on targets affacted by dots, but in a multy target cenario, where we deal with multyple enemies, let’s say 8 or more targets, I have to put every moonfire one by one, which means it’s 8 GCDs and no other spellcasts. With Twin Moons it’s still at least 4 GCDs which also seems awfully lot. I think a talent, which would let us put moonfire on multiple targets, or it would let us spread an existing moonfire, would let us cast less moonfire and more other spells in an aoe situation.

Also the stackable Star Fall was the funniest iteration, would be glad to see it comes back.

About the class tree I feel like there is a tons of utility, but very few spells that interacts with our DPS spells. And Nature’s Vigil is a cool utility spell, but it does not feel right as the final spell for Balance. It could be somewhere on the way, but I think somethink like Convoke would feel better, and a Balance last row talent would interact with it, the way our Night Fae Cov Legendary does on live.

The balance tree is also feels separated in the middle between Aoe and Single target, which feels good, so I can bring the right tools for the right job, but the bottom of the tree is just too many options and too many points required. I would put Elune’s Fury on the AoE side, and would make it work only like our 2 piece setbonus works on live right now. The new mastery would allow more frequent use of it which would result in more Astral Power and more Star Falls to cast and more Celestial form thanks to the Primordial Arcanic Pulsar talent. But my base suggestion here would be to dump some of the old and boring spells, and make us choose form less, but more meaningful talents.

Thanks for reading, and happy gaming to you all!

I’m just here to say i’m liking the feral changes so far so big thumbs up, but is there a possibility to be allowed to cast Rebrith in our feral forms once again? After being guardian for SL i’m feeling very handycaped having to go out of my feral form in m+ per say just to ress someone.

May i also suggest to add Leader of the Pack as a sort of utility for feral? i know it’s a PvP talent and all, but it would help out a bit with the lack of any utility that other druid classes can’t.

Also, as many have said, the Druid class tree feels very awful if i must say, Furor will just never be taken as it stands from here, and i’m seeing the same with HoTW. The fact i have to pick Hibernate as a talent don’t feel all that good, same goes with Cyclone really.

6 Likes

These Resto alterations seem to really free up the point cost at the bottom. Can’t wait to get in and test.
Ty for this change <3

Dear Blizzard,

i have played resto druid in arena on the beta DF-server.

Compared too shadowlands the class feels way more passiv, clunky , and depending on throuput (numbers).

We lost for example the rake stun and the roar/bash mechanic which makes rdruid even more passiv than in shadowlands.

The overlapp from verdant infusion and flourish and the lose of the swiftmend conduit will make us also weaker in a faster meta.

Please rework the talent tree once more.

8 Likes

Completly Agree with the Rake stun pouncing strikes should be added to the class tree to allow other specs to have the ability since its acts as pounce.

As well VI and flourish isnt a fun choice node

“Cenarius’ Guidance. New Talent, row 9. During Incarnation: Tree of Life, you gain Clearcasting every 6 sec. The cooldown of Incarnation: Tree of Life is reduced by 1.5 seconds when Lifebloom blooms or 1.0 seconds when Regrowth’s initial heal critically strikes.” Might be nice to put nourish in there

1 Like

Agreed with Yoogy, resto druid has somewhat passive gameplay. I can remember many times in arena, especially in S3 and S4, when I had 7+ HoTs on my teammate who died in 1 second from 100% to 0%. If Swiftmend on CD your teammate can still die in 1 sec burst windows. As far as testing goes in DF Solo Shuffles, it is still the same.

Honestly, I’d gladly grab double Swiftmend talent if it was a choice node with Verdant Infusion.

There is just too much burst in the game and DF brings even more burst into the playing field and in this environment HoTs have little value because they don’t heal much within 1 sec of burst windows.

Update

A possible solution for dealing with 1 sec burst windows.
Since most of our healing comes from HoTs something similar to Monk’s stagger can be introduced for resto druids. For instance:
For targets affected by at least one of your HoTs that fall below 40% health n*X% of the incoming damage is absorbed and spread out over 4 secs. X - mastery rating, n - number of HoTs active.

5 Likes

After playing some solo shuffle on the beta…

You seriously need to add a serious amount of dispel protection to resto druids or straight up make the hots undispellable or add a CD to offensive dispels. Everyone’s just spamming dispel and you can’t heal.

4 Likes

Immediate thoughts are that first tree section (8 point gate) is still overloaded and imbalanced, making protective growth and lunar inspiration too expensive. Some questionable pathing possible as well (e.g. ToW without PW or just not picking PW in general). The change towards resource management sounds very nice though.

I’d suggest adding the extra Swipe CP to Pouncing Strikes, making that baseline and cleaning up Berserk to say “Pouncing strikes is active” or similar. PS feels a bit too mandatory without having great value outside of berserk considering its placement. Predator fit there much better, defining the default way that feral deals with short lived enemies.

Primal Claws doesnt even sound fun because it’s too much RNG and will often be wasted with new extra CP generation effects on berserk and more accessible Symmetry (now Tiger’s Tenacity). It would probably be better as a one pointer granting ~10% crit to generators and swapping places with Protective Growth. The extra CP from crits would help ST feel smooth with bad gear while being easily replaced with Protective Growth in high end content. It would also create a 2-3 target specialization for Swipe via significantly increased CP generation (while not mattering much vs 4+ enemies), directly competing with LI/double rake on the other side of the tree.

I preferred Tireless Energy to be more about the maximum energy, e.g. to smooth out (lack of) SotF+Apex procs or make ramp up/down time less of an issue. The energy regen feels too strong and simple for the otherwise playstyle oriented first section.

something like this idiod.video/63t9rr.jpg

The other sections are very nice and even without any improvements feral may be one of the best spec tree atm with legitimate playstyle choices and situational adjustments.

2 Likes

Very true. Resto druids desperately need some purge protection on a CD. I mentioned this numerous times to no avail. I think Invigorate can be slightly modified to give a short time purge protection:
Invigorate - Places Invigorated buff on your target, which makes your HoTs complete their healing 100% faster and make them immune to purge effects for 8 secs.

1 Like

The latest feral changes are looking very good indeed. I particularly like the clear division between energy and combo points. It’s something that I felt was needed, and should satisfy both sides of the feral community - those who seek faster paced gameplay and those who prefer the current slower pace. On a personal level, I love the idea of being able to pick one or the other depending on how I feel at the time.

I need to get a feel for how it is to play before I give more detailed feedback, but since the Convoke casting Tiger’s Fury issue has already been raised, my first thought is that the changes are good. If the goal is to make TF more powerful in DF than it currently is in SL, restricting its uptime in ST while enabling it to be at (or close to) 100% in AOE is another move towards strengthening feral’s AOE without making us OP in ST.

However, IF that’s the goal, I wonder if the Predator and Raging Fury talents need to be looked at because it seems they will provide very high uptime even without resets from adds dying or an extra cast per minute from Convoke.

I also disagree with Guilty over it being a bad thing that Convoke is powerful. Looking at its position as the capstone talent in the ‘premium’ spot in the centre of the tree (shared with Incarn, and I’ve commented numerous times about Incarn’s relative weakness), it seems that it’s intended to be powerful, and a big points investment. Of all the capstone talents, it’s the only one that requires a specific 3-point path to reach it (all the others have multiple paths). To me, that screams ‘powerful talent - costly investment’.

Also, my feeling is that it’s only bad that Convoke is powerful in SL because it locks us into a single covenant and denies us the key choice that was supposed to be the selling point of SL. A single powerful talent doesn’t do that - since we’ll be taking Survival Instincts anyway, it just locks us into a 2-point haste node that some of us will love and others will stare at and wonder if they really want Convoke that much.

Of course the best way to mitigate Convoke’s power is to rework Incarn to make it its equal. :slight_smile:

4 Likes