Feedback: Evokers

Please use this thread to post feedback on the Evoker class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

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Please consider reworking / removing Oppressing Roar before it gets out of hand in PvP. I, personally, am not looking forward to 12 second Kidney Shots. Among other things.

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there was no specific PVP testing yet, but i worry the ability "obsidian mettle " would be abit too strong as it has no cool down till it happen again , and it is perament, i would like to see this spell have , can be effective once per 15 second.

Another spell i worry about is Azure strike, as it is instant and not have resource you have to spent at all,. so you can spam it consider global cooldown, I would suggest to change it and add a tiny amount of mana as a resource to cast this spell.

There is a bug with you’re coming with me pvp spell , as you can move alot of not enemies npcs plus your group or other friendly players who are not with your group.

Thanks.

I cant find a thread about the race, so i would put this small feedback/suggestion here.
The visage form quest seems dull, as you have to get visage form, and here how you do that , it is in you etc…
I would like the dracthyr to know about the visage day ceremony, i dont know if they would need to do such as they are not real dragon but experiments so maybe to mention it instead.
What i mean about visage day is as say in Wowpedia article here :
Visage Day (short_story) and Visage Day

another thing is when you run around as dracthyr to explore SW and npcs say things to you there are some odd things.

For horde:
the npcs says things about deathwing attack the city, which he did on SW not orgrimmar, as well lady prastor was in SW and not in orgrimmar.

For alliance , it is odd they ask about alextrasa as it was meant to mock them about what the orcs done to her. so i assume it was meant to be horde only line.

Thanks.

2 Likes

As part of build 44795, there is now a 0.4 multiplier on Oppressing Roar in PvP - to translate it, it now only increases CCs by 20%. You see, this is why I was more in favor of reworking or straight up removing the spell, because now you essentially get 1 more GCD into most of your CCs if your haste value is high enough. For example, a HoJ goes from 6 seconds to 7.2, which, with moderate amount of haste, you can BARELY fit in one more GCD. Not to mention that you have to be super close for Oppressing Roar to take effect, so it’s insanely high risk for extremely minimal gains.

If it was up to me - after playtesting quite a bit with Evoker, I would make it equivalent to Demoralizing Shout from Prot Warrior, where you reduce the damage people do by some % in the exact same cone as it is right now. Evoker being really low on raw mitigation, and damage being insanely high, would be a nice compromise I think.

1 Like

Currently there is a bug that lets you queue a spell instantly after an empowered one if you spam it while finishing the empower, however, this feels way better for gameplay. Empower spells are basically like casts in terms of how they play so I think GCD should be changed to work like it does for normal casted spells. Having a half GCD when releasing the empower spells just causes friction in gameplay.

Empower spells also don’t scale with haste which feels bad, specially as preservation that has a lot of empowered spells to play with.

Some thoughts on Evokers so far.

Empower
As I mentioned in my previous post an issue I have is the GCD at the end of empower spell. Empower spells are basically long casted spells that you can choose to end early for a smaller effect. As such it would make a lot more sense to incur a GCD at the start of the spell, while also cancelling the GCD if you interrupt the spell; exactly like it does with normal casted spells. Having the GCD at the end, albeit a half one, makes pressing empower spells feel worse and causes friction in the rotation. Lining up a 3.3 second cast into a following instant spell is extremely satisfying and is not something that should be taken away from Evokers, additionally it adds the decision of queueing another casted spell or an instant one depending on the situation. Movement, pvp, other mechanics etc. etc.

Empower spells are not affected by haste either which feels really bad for a class that currently looks like it would enjoy haste otherwise. Especially bad for Preservation who has a lot of empower spells.

Hover
I would like to see Hover castable while casting spells similar to Shimmer, Ice Floes, Spiritwalker’s Grace etc. If only to try on alpha and see how it feels compared to current version.

Deep Breath
Deep Breath is a very cool ability, however it’s quite slow and feels clunky to use. As soon as you activate this ability, you are animation locked for roughly 3-4 seconds with no way to cancel it. I would like to see it either sped up, or allow us to cancel it at any point throughout the animation. Another band-aid fix, which I would prefer not to see, would be allowing defensive casts to be used while flying, like Obsidian Scales.

Class tree:
I really like this class tree. It is in my eyes probably the best class tree currently. I like that the capstones here aren’t super powerful, but more niche tools that can be strong in the right circumstances, but they don’t feel required in any content. This is very good for a class tree.

I like that the power gains are early in the tree and easy to obtain, but not entirely without sacrifice. For example, you can get 4% increased magic damage done as a healer, but you might have to drop some utility to get it and vice versa for the healing done as Devastation.

The pathing in the class tree is also pretty good, with niche talents being tangents so that you can pick them when needed and only having to drop 1 or 2 points in other places. This makes picking up these talents feel worth the minor sacrifice for what you gain.

Zephyr
I think this spell is amazing. It’s not so strong that it’s required, but has uses that makes it worthwhile in certain scenarios. As a small “logical” addition, since this spell creates and “updraft that lifts party members”, this should slow falling/prevent falling damage in the same way hover does.

All in all, I really like that there’s not too much power to be gained in the class tree.

Devastation Tree:
Capstones
The capstones in this tree are very underwhelming. The potential builds feel a bit limited with how weak the capstones are. Feels to me that the bottom left capstone “Feed the flames/Everburning Flame” won’t see play with current Fire Breath tuning. Which leads me to Fire Breath.

Fire Breath has a lot of interesting play, synergizing with Leaping Flames and Catalyze as well as having multiple talents to improve it, however as an empower spell with a 3,3 second cast at max empower, this feels very underwhelming to press on it’s own. With Leaping Flames it feels a little bit better, but that also makes the Engulfing Blaze node mandatory.

Firestorm
Firestorm is super weak, though I’ll write this down to tuning. This does however make a dungeon spec kind of look like pyre spam for the most part, not necessarily bad, but more options would be nice.

Shattering Star
Shattering Star makes the GCD at end of empower spells feel really bad. At the moment you cannot cast a shattering star into fully empowered fire breath without the talent extending shattering star. Outside of this, I like this button.

Eternity Surge is a really satisfying button. I like how the empower works with this, being able to get a quick cast off on a single target. The talent making disintegrate sometimes cause an eternity surge is also fun.

Pyre is a cool ability. Feels maybe a bit weak on ST(might be intended), but good in AoE.

Preservation Tree

I have not had a lot of time as Preservation yet, but this is what I’ve got so far.

Echo
Initially a cool functioning ability, but not sure how to feel about it. It is locked to the target Echo was cast on, limiting it’s usage, specially in a raid scenario. If it affected all hits from the affected spells it would make sense with this limitation, but currently only the target affected by echo gets hit a 2nd time. If echo was a buff on the casting player instead and then affected the next spell, though still only on the target of the new spell, that would make this spell more usable in more situations. Say I cast Echo on the mage, then use a fully empowered Dream Breath with the tank as a target, the tank will get the Echo healing. Probably not the solution, but currently it feels very weird to use. I really do like its interaction with Reversion that makes it synergize with the talent Grace Period and it’s potential for a big ramp in raids.

Dream Flight
Read Deep Breath :smiley:

Stasis
I like this spell a lot. There are a lot of different ways to play and build the power of this spell which is a very good thing. I would however prefer to be able to trigger it early and not REQUIRE 3 spells to be stored before you can unleash it.

Temporal Anomaly
The animation of this ability is great. However without additional support talent, this spell costs A LOT of mana for what it does. It has a cast time + a travel time and only heals 3 targets every tick. I assume this ability is supposed to be a trade off, costing a massive amount of your mana for a massive amount of healing, but at the moment it just doesn’t heal that much.

I would suggest making this spell instant baseline(like frozen orb) and I would replace the instant cast choice node with an option to place it on a specific location(like the pvp talent for frozen orb). The choice being choosing the location versus healing faster.

I’ll stop here for now and return later if I find more things to talk about!

In today’s update:

  • Class Tree
    • Damage of all abilities reduced by 8% except Azure Strike, Shattering Star, and Unravel.
    • Disintegrate damage reduced by an additional 5%.
    • Living Flame damage reduced by an additional 12.5%.
    • Enkindled reduced to 3% per rank (was 5%).
    • Scarlet Adaptation damage cap reduced by 19.5% (matches total Living Flame damage reduction).
  • Devastation
    • Pyre damage reduced by an additional 14%.
    • Azure Strike damage increased by 5%.
    • Shattering Star damage increased by 7%.
    • Arcane Intensity reduced to 8% per rank (was 10%).
    • Might of the Aspects reduced to 7.5% per rank (was 10%).
    • Volatility reduced to 10% per rank (was 15%).
    • Charged Blast reduced to 5% per stack (was 7%).
  • Preservation
    • Temporal Anomaly absorbs damage, rather than healing. Absorb shield stacks up to 3 times and lasts 15 seconds. Now only shields 2 allies at a time (was 3).
    • Temporal Anomaly will immediately slow down upon reaching an ally, even if they are full health. Speed adjusted to 10 yards per second base, 2.5 yards per sec when reaching an ally.
    • Temporal Anomaly mana cost reduced to 7.5% base mana (was 11.5%).
    • Temporal Disruption removed.
    • Flow State renamed to Rush of Vitality.
    • New: Flow State – Empower spells cause time to move 5/10% faster for you for 5 seconds. In Resonating Sphere’s old position.
    • Nozdormu’s Teachings causes Temporal Anomaly to shield 1 additional target, for a total of 3 targets each pulse.
    • Resonating Sphere now an A/B choice against Nozdormu’s Teachings. Causes Echo to be applied by Temporal Anomaly at 30% value.

It has been mentioned in the US evoker feedback forums too, cancelling a cast to avoid a mechanic as evoker especially on channels like Disintegrate where you pay the full essence cost upfront feels really bad, there also seems to be an issue with targeting and Eternity Surge, where if a party member kills your target while you’re empowering you lose your full empower and the spell goes on cooldown without casting even if there were targets still alive nearby that should have been cleaved by the AOE. A good suggestion was to have the Disintegrate cost be paid over the channel, so it cost 3 essence but you only pay 1 essence each tick of damage it deals, otherwise perhaps raising the damage may make it feel a little more impactful and more worth the 3 essence investment of standing to full channel the spell.

2 Likes

im outing me as german potato with the following sentence:
my english is not the yellow from the egg:

Living Flame no traveltime while playing with Firestorm reset:
I tried to put Firestorm into my build. I have one thing i didnt liked. When I skill in addition that living flame has a chance to reset Firestorm CD and is an instant cast - I think the dps effect of living flame shouldnt have any traveltime because if your living flame travels while u want to cast a firestorm anyway and you are at midcast and get the proc, than you still cast firestorm but at the end of the cast the proc goes away. <<< this is very clunky and feels like not intended in any way

Hover while casting:
Hover should be possible while casting, because its almost too painfull if u have to interrupt at midcast

Firestorm:
Firestorm feels very weak - it is a stationary skill - when tanks ignoring this aoe it was almost waste of time even casting it

Shattering Star:
the effect of shattering star is nearly zero - it doesnt hurt if u dont even skill it - also at ST in my opinion at the current state ( i think of Ice Fury when i want to use such spells - there has to be way more value)

Dragonrage:
Dragonrage is cool but immo the effect of extending the effect is after using both empored spells at 0 because there is no chance to extend it afterwards.

Empowered Spells:
firebreath cast is way too long in my opinion - it shouldnt have the same casttime like the other empored blue spell in my opinion or vice versa - because the 4 seconds where u can buff the speed of living flame in a aoe situation where u want to combine attacks nearly useless to me - i think of extending the buff like at least 8 seconds so ppl can use it not only for one cast in a preparing aoe situation

thats my 2 cent and i hope some of that gets into a deep dive - good day to you sir!

Jpsxxraucher/jpmdc

Hello everyone,
my current EXP with the Devastation class:

It current state feels clunky in several ways.

Firestorm/Fire Breath/Eternity Surge:
Firestorm is a pain to hardcast when your tank gathers up mobs and moves all the time or chainpulls w/e
Breath and Surge have the same problem but with FireStorm you can hover at least.
Interrupting any of those casts due to movement/boss abilitys/out of range etc feels super unsatisfying.
→ Hover not interrupting the current cast and/or beeing able to cast empower spells while hovering would be very nice

25yd range:
I think the original Idea of having a very mobile,moving much Nuker is a good one but I feel pain everytime I need to run out with a mechanic / the grp moves and other things bc my long casting spells just interrupt or get canceled. I know here that experience and observating pre movement can help but I see the problem mainly in a raid enviroment when we need to get out into a range camp to play a mechanic. And disconnecting from boss and not doing anything feels always bad.
And if you need to use Hover to get around this, then its not a mobile, much moving Nuker anymore. Hover is then just there to counter the poor max range we have.

Empowered Spells generally:
The original Idea was to have a spell where it matter if you wait 2 3 or 4 seconds to cast. But in the current state its just a very very long cast bc the max lvl is mostly the best to use it.
Would love to see different things on the several empowered levels.
Lets take Fire Breath as an example: Now its just the duration/dmg. So we always want maximum emp. level. If duration and dmg would stay the same we could’ve several additional buffs to really feel the spell empowered like enabling more cleave or get spreading a debuff through a grp.

Stats:
Currently I myself dislike the mastery but that could mostly be due to mobs and bosses die very fast in heroic dungeons. Not having Crit/haste feels almost like you are breaking your own legs here. Criting enables so many talents and casting much faster results in a more divere and forgiving rotation right now. Sure Dragonrage is there to play around with the mastery but in the end Ruin is just there to let us deal % more dmg when the boss is lower.
Would’ve love to see a Masterytrait which interacts with the core princip of the class: Movement/Range/Empowering Spells
Reverse Execute just feels so random and boring : /

Current Scaling in the current PTR/BETA Build:
Damage feels underwhelming compared to other classes. We should be the fast moving turret whith high risk / high reward damage.
Right now I’m just running and try to catch up to my current tank, waiting for him to line the mobs up and when that happens the other classes have killed 50% of that pack already so i just hit one spell of disintegrate and hope for a Scintillation proc so the Healer wouldn’t need a spyglass to find me behind him in the damage meters :wink:
So im mostly feel like a wet noodle und not like a Dragon with big dragon-ish Nukes :smiley:

In Single Target it gets a bit better IF we have all our cooldowns ready and have nice procs. But when we dont have that? wet noodle again.

I really hope we will see some more insights on the future design and changes to the Spec/Class bc right now I wouldn’t want to bring a Devastation Evoker to my grp or raid sadly.

Cheers,
Kandera

Ok after playing a bit, i must join the voice that says the 25 yard range is VERY awkward, not sure if i could ever get used to it.

Also, disintegrate being interuptable by anything feels so punishing.

I had to wait to be able to use that 3 essence ability and i got something that bumps me / i have to move and 3 essences wasted… i cant even cast hover during it to salvage the cast. It’s weird …

Actually for a class with wings i feel so imobile, the empowered spells and disintegrate + the low range SHOULD be compensated by movement. I feel i should be able to cast everything while moving all the time and hover should just be a movement boost …

THAT would help a lot.

2 Likes

same feeling here, i feel like a turret. So much casting spells, low range, the fire breath cone is not very large. I don’t feel powerfull at all. When i play the healer spec and there is another evoker as a dps, the damage are very low

And as a healer, there’s always a caster (or often a hunt lol) who is away from the others (sometimes because of the mecanics). I need to be between the casters and the tank / melee ; so, either I take care of the distant or I take care of the others. The powerfull spells can’t hit most of them. It’s a bit frustrating.

If it stays that way, i will not play it in raids or keys, but in the open world (quests, crafting, gathering …). To much frustration there

1 Like

subject: Human form during fights

Hi,

Just wanted to say that one might love better human form, if so, one can realy like to stay in human form more often in fight:
— could breath spells just transform u during the breath, then transform u back ?
----- or maybe having Visage not on gcd: it would be nice to be able to create macro attaching Visage to Living Flame for example.
---- or a Glyph attached to Living Flame to turn back human if u’re not.

I could get used to turning back to human form every in-between packs in dungeons, but with Hover … u’re quickly back to dragon form.

Btw: Really love the Glide in human form, would be so cool to see Hover be the same !

2 Likes

Joining my voice to the chorus:
The range is super awkward, Evokers feel the disavantages of melee with all the stuff having to make them move, and the disavantages of ranges with having to stop casting to move all the time and hard casting all the things.

Damage wise it feels super underwhelming. Going for a single color build - Red for AoE and Blue for Single Target - makes you absolutly terrible in the opposite, and only mediocre at what you specced for rancing the meters with healers.

Hove should work like Shimmer: Dracthyr have 6 limbs, hover just makes them use the wings. It would feel better and more mobile it all other spells were castable in movement, with hover giving you a boost and only stopping for the empowered spells.

3 Likes

Could you explain this one a little more ?

I found it a little hard to follow. I know you are saying to use hover during a cast without interrupting it so you can move and not lose the cast.

Once hover is activated you can cast all your abilities while moving though (except for empower abilities).

Either have it so that all spells minus the Empowered ones can be cast while moving, and pressing Hover works like Demon Hunters Fel Rush, or have Hover outside of the GCD and castable without interrupting other casts just like how Shimmer or Fire Blast work.

1 Like

He is saying that every spells should be castable while moving ALL THE TIME and hover should just act as blink / movement speed.

Couldnt agree more.

Ah, I see. I ned to give it a bit more time to be able to properly comment. But have to admit, the range, casting and frequency of moving combo is right now proving to be a real source of discomfort for me also.

1 Like

Keirmot has a really good point ! The class would feel way better if you could Hover while casting/empowering without breaking it half the time (the other half might be due to ping?)

But in a more general sense, i feel like empowering is … not ideal ? In DPS spec at least, Devastation, you only have 2 things you can Empower … an AoE who’s DoT is the only part that gets better as you empower more and more, so you need a fight that’s going to last for this AoE to become usefull to empower in single-target scenario and usually won’t empo it in multi-target. Or you have the blue spell which has the same damage but more targets as you empo’ it … idk, the empowering mechanic seems like a bait often ? You don’t really want to empo spells, you use them in the minimum required to throw them out, or fullblast because you’re not in combat yet i guess.
(Maybe extending the duration or dragonrage, thanks to the Animosity talent, longer the more empowered your spell is, might feel a bit better ?)

Ruby Embers doesn’t seem to scale very well … it looked almost insignificant level 60, but it’s like i don’t even notice it anymore once 70, and here i was thinking i’m big brain for stacking 3 of the HoT on me before engaging a rare …

Suffused with power, the deal 4% more damage is … why does it exist ? Like … in which condition do you NOT take it without thinking ? Therefore, not a “choice”

Did i Mandela effect the fact that the red dragonbreath also healed friends ? Because i’m pretty sure it did at some point, and was trying to use it that way the first few days, without any success obviously, but it sounded cool to me that Evokers Devastation were an off-heal type DPS, even not for much … Like, it could litteraly be just apply/refresh Ruby Ember, but would be cool !!

Currently you really only have two variations of the pretty much same build as far as DPS goes, and which skill you use depends on number of target (Azure Strike + Pyre for AoE, Living Flame and Disintegrate in Single or Two targets cleave) your only “freedom” in your build choice being “do i Shattering Star, Firestorm, or somehow go for both ?”
I’d love a bit more … flavour and impact in the choices ? Which i guess is hard in the sense that you can pick multiple end of tree talents at the end of the day anyway, but a more DoT oriented one, a more empowered for big damage one, and a more filler one could be more impactful decision wise than 2% here, 2% there, same buttons with same mappings everywhere~