Feedback: Evokers

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Evokers in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team

1 Like

Evoker Feedback,

  • Chronowarden

Love the Warp effect to hover, visually amazing best part of this talent tree, however cant help but feel it should be passive for all specs , makes it hard to not want to pick ChronoWarden because of this reason
gameplay wise i feel Eruption is still a VERY long cast for what its worth, if i were to compare this to other casters, i cant help but feel the 2 second cast is too long for the damage output
a suggestion to resolve this Chrono Flame could in addition reduce the cast time of Eruption by 20%
this would make the rotation “flow” better

  • Scale Commander

not much to say with this hero talent, its visually great, love the extra beams or the noticeable damage increase.
the only outlier i can point out is the lack of choice for " nimble flyer / slipstream "
nimble flyer taking 10% less AoE damage has much to be desired to even consider taking it. it feels very very pointless node choice
a solution maybe give it an additional effect of increasing movement speed or range of hover?

  • Flame Shaper

love this fantasy, focusing on fire and shadowflame, feels great with the versatility of dealing damage or healing.
the only gripes i have with it is the consuming Firebreath option, it is counter productive. … fire breath ticks grant us instant living flame procs and if we consume it we lose out of a lot of instant procs and have to go back to CASTING a full living flame

1 Like

Devoker and aug PVP feedback

with the beta going live and finally being able to test evoker it is a shame to see that we will still suffer the same fate of current retail pvp making the spec very niche and played by a smaller player base.

Both of the new hero talents are awesome and do truly add to the spec and make it feel more fluid, however a major concern is for when you vs classes that have many pets there is no way for you not to split your mass disintegrate or engulf and rot down a single target without any of the enemy pets taking the brute force of your pump and making you hit like a wet noodle.
maybe a talent?

changes for scale commander
Deep breath could use either the recall talent built in or an option to cancel the deep breath animation, It is incredibly hard to get any useful impact from the stun to either quickly set up a dragon rage burst or quick sleepwalk due to the fact you just zoom around.
Also increase the turn cap

my wishes

Sleepwalk to become an instant cast so we do not get punished every time we have to push up while keeping dream catcher (pvp talent) as a cast time due to the fact it’s spammable CC.
Improvements to our survivability (we push up in a range lobby and get punished for it)
Maybe a sneaky 35 range increase talent?
Time stop should become baseline spell and should act like a demon hunter nether walk where you are still able to receive healing but cannot interact.
Divide and Conquer is still waiting to fixed!
improvements to the range of our interrupt
revert the change from Spatial paradox back down to two minutes or increase the duration of the effect.
Mortal strike effect

Thank you for listening to my ted talk :slight_smile:

2 Likes

This, could be me but compared to most other classes in pvp (specialy on flameshaper) gameplay feels too slow, I can hardly survieve most classes bursts. I feel like I lack the defensives, specially against ranged.

As any range class can kite/ountrnage me, and for the most part has more defensives. Can’t really outrun them either.

Evokers need a slight range increase.
with rated battlegrounds now being a major PVP option

can we please look at increasing the range of ALL evoker specs

2 Likes

I am down for this if they are gonna skip on defensives, yes.

Some honest constructive feedback about the Preservation Evoker TWW Season 1 Tier Bonus:

Preservation struck gold with the hero talents, but we need to talk about possibly changing the tier set. With all the focus around empowered spells in the hero talents (which is amazing), the playstyle would most likely revolve around echoing those. This is commonly seen as a huge improvement to the DF S1 & S4 reversion-focused playstyle.

Without the tier set, reversion falls way behind in throughput and its niche might be for the Golden Hour value and perhaps Grace Period, which is ideal. Therefore, a tier set that is buffing reversion would perhaps just put it on par with the empowered abilities in terms of Echo value. This results in a worse gameplay loop and a close-to-net-zero throughput increase from equipping the 2-piece.

The 4-piece, due to it affecting only 1 reversion per time (please don’t make it echo), will also see little to no value if we continue the damage and healing patterns seen in DF. Most of it will go towards overhealing, and it feels clunky and unimpactful.

Preservation’s design going into The War Within looks extremely promising, and the Hero Talents are hitting spot on. It’s an amazing time to pick up Pres, but let’s drive the design home with a tier bonus that builds on the unique and rewarding gameplay that you have already established.

1 Like

Evoker Devastation (First biggest impressions)

  • Animosity nerf to 16 sec extension: currently, being able to extend Dragon Rage to over 20sec is the norm, and with that we are barely average in terms of DPS output. That nerf alone feels to heavy to bear.
    Potential remediations: Remove the 16sec limitations, or reduce Dragon Rage CD by 30sec.

  • Scale commander, with Deep Breath as a cap stone feels odd and not impactful enough: The mechanism to control the direction of the DB feels nice, however in a normal DPS rotation, it is very counterintuitive and inefficient to incorporate DB given the animation time. Also taking into account that some terrain glitches might make you blocked, it will result in a huge DPS loss.

1 Like

I think that Maneuverability would be better as a choice node instead of a capstone. Is not a simple change in how an ability works, because it also involves movement and controlling your character in a different way.

Not sure if Dracthyr feedback comes here but here is the most requested things i gathered:

  • Allow playing permanently in visage form only temporarily transforming into dractyr like the demon hunter does during the eye beam
  • Allow chosing one transmog for visage and another for dracthyr form
  • More transmog slots for dracthyr form if possible for chest, wrist, hands and legs
  • Alow dracthyr turning back to visage after all skills
    (Possibly the chosen identity is not working correctly since after hover and soar the dracthyr does not automatically return to the visage form)
3 Likes

i wish we could just toggle the visage form in combat and stay in the chosen form

… or make Visage a NON GCD ability and allow us to macro it

I have been enjoying the Beta so far and I am hoping to play an Augmentation Chronowarden Evoker when the expansion launches. So far I have found the Chronowarden quite visually underwhelming considering it was one of the first Hero talent trees to be announce. The play style feels exactly the same apart from the changes to tip the scales with the haste buff which is good. I really wish that Chronoflame was completely bronze or sand Graphicly as I feel this one small change would definitely add to the class fantasy, eruptions would also be great to have more of a bronze magic themed anamation in chronowarden. Also if their was some kind of graphics for prescience such as sand flying towards the target to give an idea of who you have buffed, this would really help visually to see who you want to be close too especially in raid. At the moment the whole spec it kinda looks and feels exactly the same as it dose now. Please lean into the Bronze time magic fantasy a bit more as it’s a new kind of magic that has been added in dragon flight their is a massive potential for class fantasy =D. There is a lot of graphics already in game that could be used. Really hoping this spec is given some love as kinda feels forgotten about atm. Also I love the way warp feels but there is a slight delay before teleportation, really want it to be as instant as blink as the slight delay kinda knocks you off track, still like the cool warp animation but not the delay. Also please allow us to remove, shoulders and belt in Dracthyr form or add more visible armour slots in Dracthyr form. As mentioned above, allow playing permanently in visage form only temporarily transforming into dractyr like the demon hunter does during the eye beam. A lot of the time u can’t choose your acest mogs as either the shoulders and belt look rough or clippy in Dracthyr form, or the limited shades of the gross dracthyr armour don’t match your mog =[. Finally what has happened to spatial paradox? not sure why this was taken away but when in a movement phase of fight myself and the healers find it very useful, please bring it back =D.

Interesting… Animosity seems to be bugged as it’s removing all my willingness to play the spec.

2 Likes

Continuing the discussion from Feedback: Evokers:

I would like to second this point. Especially in light of the set bonus reducing the cd of eternity surge.

The extension being capped at 2 sets of empower spells feels horrible. On live the norm is 3 sets of extensions and with luck and good skill expression you can hit 4.

With the new set bonus hitting 4 will be very easy without pi during a bl window with proper play. And hitting 3 will be the norm.

It feels very bad to have the reduced cdr on eternity surge only to slam into a hard cap animosity.

Please consider either removing the cap or changing it to 24 seconds.

I personally feel that
24 seconds would allow the set bonus to feel useful and powerful while still maintaining the state goal of reducing the attractiveness of power infusion for the class.

As a separate point i would add as well, that as a Dev evoker the most fun I have ever had on this spec was chasing that 4th set of empower extensions. It felt incredibly when I would hit it and was some of the most fun gameplay the spec offered especially on hard DPS checks like mythic rashock or razagaths shields. Removing it has removed a core element of fun from the class, and I don’t believe the stated goal of reducing the attractiveness of external haste effects such as power infusion is worth removing the fun from the spec. It is not necessarily my place to suggest an alternative but I would have preferred a change to haste scaleing on the class instead rather than the hard capping of animosity.

I would just like to reiterate that the hard cap on animosity feels awful and to add to that. The reason behind the nerf also feels horrible. I would prefer a fun class that didn’t scale at all with haste but maintained it fun. Than one that has had the fun removed.

1 Like

From a PvP perspective, the Scalecommander spec lacks single-target power. It’s decent in group PvE content like Mythic+ where Dragonrage is available but falls short in single-target situations. On the other hand, Flameshaper is great for PvE but performs poorly in PvP due to its clunky mechanics. While it can hit hard once all debuffs are lined up, this is unrealistic and difficult to achieve in a PvP setting.

I frequently find myself being out-ranged and out-healed by pure DPS melee classes like Warriors and Death Knights. Additionally, Retribution Paladins are doing more ranged damage than Devastation, making it impossible to kite effectively. I’m being out-ranged and out-damaged by what feels like an almost immortal melee class. While I understand this is the beta, I hope the healing capabilities of pure DPS classes are adjusted. Under no circumstance should pure DPS classes like Warriors and DKs be able to heal more than a ranged DPS hybrid.

I played the beta devastation evoker, felt good. The only reason I stopped using an evoker in season 2 was because it takes a lot of damage very quickly and feels like you’re not wearing any armor. I hope Blizzard fixes this because evokers are very fragile Even played some delves with devastation and it was a nightmare comparing it with other classes i did delves with.

2 Likes

Preservation Evoker

General Feedback regarding Hero Talents

Damage Output
Chronowardens Damage output in m+ is higher than Flameshapers damage output. This feels counterintuitive, since Chronowarden seems to be the more support orientied tree and flameshaper the more damage oriented tree. In a highkey m+ environment i would feel pushed to play Chronowarden, just because of the higher damage output.

This gets exascerbated by having to chose between using engulf offensively vs. as a healing spell. While chronowarden gets all its damage buffs mostly passively or as part of its healing gameplay, Flameshapers damage is mostly centered around engulf. So if you use engulf for healing you get almost no damage benefit from it at all.

It would be nice to either offload some of flameshapers damage to talents not centered around engulf or buff engulfs damage, to compensate for it not beeing used offensively all the time. Or nerf Chronowards passive damage, so its more in line with flameshapers damage output.

Defensive Abilities
Chronowarden offers you up to 20% Damage reduction when hovering. In a highkey m+ environment i would feel forced to play Chronowarden to surive specific dungeon mechanics. It would be nice to either remove it or give Flameshaper a similar Damage reduction or shielding option.

Chronowarden Feedback

Threads of Fate
This talent feels weird to play arround. If i wannt to promote optimal dps for my team i feel nudged into pressing all my empower spells one after another to give thread of fate to three dps. This seems like it could promote bad gameplay, where you send your healing spells (Dream breath and Spirit bloom) just to buff tread of fate, instead of using them for their intended purpose.

The effect also seems very weak. In my testing in m+ it seemed like it only adds about 1% dps to the overall dps of my damage dealers dps in a key. It feels like there is not enough incentive to give this buff to players and extend it.

Flameshaper Feedback

Traveling Flame
This talent doesnt offer meaningful gameplay additions in my opinion. I cant think of a scenario where i would want to engulf a target just to extend its dreambreath duration. it seems like a little addon, that isnt really interesting.

Titanic Precision
Feels not very impactful as preservation evoker. It doesnt proc from azur strike as preservation, so this talent only really works for living flame. living flame is a spell you mostly dont use during boss encounters as a preservation evoker, you mostly use it to dps but rarely to heal. so on hard bosses, you would get almost no use of this talent as preservation evoker. As a result of this this talent feels almost meaningles for preservation evoker. It would be nice to either rework this talent or add reversion to it, since reversion can proc an essence burst as prevoker.

Enkindle
Enkindle feels pretty unimpactful for healing spells as preservation evoker. it only applies to the healing portion of echo. In m+ where you mostly use echo and not emerald blossom, it feels like this talent doesnt have any healing impact at all. Same goes for any healing build not playing around emerald blossom.

Exactly what i felt, agree with all of that

I have been testing a lot on beta for the past one and a half weeks and wanted to give some feedback. Excuse my rough English, please.

Feedback for Preservation Evo

First off, I want to say that I really like both of the Hero Talents. The choice of trying something new (Flameshaper) or going with something more familiar (Chronowarden) feels good. The changes to the pathing of both the Spec and Class tree, in my opinion, are a good change and improve the accessibility of both trees.

I also want to give quick feedback on the Prev Tier set. The look is S Tier, but the bonuses are underwhelming. The 2-piece bonus is extremely weak because Reversion, without the current tier set, just doesn’t have enough output. The new 4-piece bonus doesn’t just feel bad but also feeds the problems from the 2-piece. When I first saw it, I was hyped because it would have been a stronger version of our S4 Tier set with the 2-piece as a bonus. But the fact that it can’t be echoed is kind of a letdown and feels really bad. Of course, if it could be echoed, it would be too strong, but that could be adjusted. As it is now, it’s just a “forget about it” thing that adds almost no value. As a result, it’s going to be on the Pres itself in almost all cases.

Chronowarden:

Chronowarden is nice because it takes good parts from DF and improves on them. The return of the S2 and S3 tier set in this hero tree brings some familiarity while also improving its gameplay by adding all the bonuses to the tree. One of the highlights for me is the new hover Blink in that tree. It’s only a small thing, but it feels really nice.

My only real negative for this tree is the interaction between Tip the Scales with Temporal Burst and Threads of Fate. This may only apply to people who like to min-max, but in my opinion, they counter each other and incentivises bad gameplay. For Aug, you use them during cooldown windows where it works, but as a Pres, you use Tip the Scales as an emergency button or as a setup, not during DPS windows, at least not regularly. What I mean by that is if you want to use Tip the Scales efficiently as a Pres, then you get almost no benefit from Threads of Fate, and if you use it for Threads of Fate, you get no real healing benefit from Tip the Scales.

My idea for this would be to split the buffs so that Aug prefs DPS and Pres prefs healer. If no DPS or healer is there to buff, the caster becomes Threads of Fate itself. This would make it so that in raids, you can buff a healer during healing-intensive parts where you would use Tip the Scales anyway, and in 5-man content, you wouldn’t feel forced to use it during DPS cooldowns. Also the power of this node feels abit weak but that could be adjusted.

Flameshaper:

I really like Flameshaper. I am playing it a lot at the moment and am a big fan of our new button, Engulf. It’s really nice to have some really good spot healing with added AOE from Consume Flame. Also, being able to share Renewing Blaze is super cool, maybe a bit strong on tanks, but please, if you nerf it, do it by role so that it only heals tanks less. We don’t want a PI case here.

The new HOT, Enkindle, feels kind of weak at the moment. It’s only a healing amp for Engulf, which is fine, but it makes the choice node between Expanding Lungs and Fan of Flames not really a choice. Expanding Lungs will be better in almost all cases.

There are two things where I don’t know if it’s a bug or just not intended. The first one is that Engulf can’t be stored in Stasis, which I don’t understand. If it is intended, that would negate many new combo potentials. The second thing is that if you echo Engulf, the echoed Engulf does not apply Traveling Flame, which is odd because Golden Hour gets echoed too.

Also, there is a bug in the game at the moment where Consume Flame’s healing isn’t reduced beyond five targets, which is cool but really overpowered in raids.

New Hero Talents for Devastation Evoker - PVP Feedback

I’ve played hundreds of hours on the beta with my main Devastation Evoker, and I’d like to share my thoughts from both a PVP and PVE perspective.

Scalecommander Talent:

  • Pros: This talent excels against melee opponents thanks to the controllable Deep Breath and the shorter cooldown in PVP.
  • Cons: It lacks single-target power, feeling underwhelming overall. The damage from Bombardment is very minimal, often less than 1% of total damage in arena solo shuffle matches. In Mythic+ dungeons, Bombardment also contributes about 1% of total damage, which is disappointing since it’s central to the Scalecommander theme. While the proc rate is acceptable, a significant damage buff is needed to make it competitive.

Firestorm and Left Side Changes:

  • The recent changes to the left side of the Devastation tree, particularly regarding Firestorm, have been fantastic. It feels rewarding to use, though there are complaints about the visual clutter it creates, especially when multiple Firestorms overlap.

Flameshaper Talent:

  • PVE: It’s enjoyable and adds a fun dynamic.
  • PVP: It’s decent but heavily reliant on maintaining DoTs, which are frequently dispelled. With the lengthy 30-second cooldown on Fire Breath, this design feels frustrating. Flameshaper needs either another cooldown reduction method or an anti-dispel mechanic, similar to Shaman’s Flame Shock or Affliction Warlock’s Unstable Affliction, to be viable.

General Devastation Feedback:

  • The Flameshaper spec feels too reliant on casting and is unviable in melee-heavy environments.
  • Devastation Evokers are still too squishy. We need more instant crowd control and abilities to use while stunned to mitigate our vulnerability when Hover is on cooldown.

Augmentation Chronowarden:

  • I’ve noticed that Augmentation Chronowarden feels very smooth and delivers more upfront and sustained damage than Devastation. Given its massive utility, Augmentation now feels like a much more viable and desired spec than Devastation. I’m unsure if it’s intended for Augmentation to outdamage Devastation as a support spec or if further tuning is required to even out the numbers.

Your feedback and suggestions are valuable in refining these talents. Let’s continue to work together to improve the Devastation Evoker experience in PVP!