Feedback: Hunters

WE DO NOT WANT TO USE HUNTERS MARK IN OUR ROTATION

just stop it please

2 Likes

The hunter’s mark change is disastrous!!!

Please consider reverting!

This is a HUGE utility nerf in PVP that the class does not need - 20sec CD in combat means that if a rogue uses cloak of shadows or is dispelled, you cannot re-apply hunter’s mark again for 20sec! This 5% damage increase above 80% will be absolutely meaningless in PVP anyway, and the price to pay for it is too big.

I don’t play PVE much but I imagine using Huner’s Mark as part of the damage rotation would feel horrible too.

Again, please reconsider this change. I feel this is not the way to give hunters utility.

4 Likes

Yikes, I did not even consider the effects on PVP player.

Players will have 1 million health in full PVP gear (scaled to max ilevel) in PVP.
The hunter’s mark bonus will apply to the first 200K of that health (above 80%)
The first 200K damage will be increased by 5%, so 10K.

Net result: your party will do 10K more damage overall on a 1mln health player, but your Hunter’s Mark will have 20sec CD in combat for that!

1 Like

Please look into BM and defensives.

I think we are in a good place now compared to Season 1.

Let’s iterate on the Hunter’s Mark Chance - some thoughts:

First of all, i like the direction of the idea. Back in the day, hunters had exactly the job to mark priory targets were the raid had to focus on and often do the pulls. So, to give Hunter’s a tool fill this role again is nice. It fit’s also really well the class fantasy of the spec. Hunt down stuff.

Now. The current iteration is kind of weak. I mean, it is not nothing. But yeah: 1% overall is not much.
One solution which came up would be to add 5% dmg below 20%. This would be nice, but would not fulfill the class fantasy aspect of marking what have to be focused on. The current iteration either does not fulfill this, because sometimes you want to focus on a mob in the middle of the fight, when the health is lower than 80%. On the other hand, a continues dmg buff on one target would be a boring solution. So, some ideas:

Overall suggestion: get Hunter’s Mark of the GCD or give it a dmg amp for the hunter to compensate its use. For example, the hunter which cast the hunter’s mark get a small haste or crit buff for some seconds or the dmg of the next ability is increased.

1st idea:
Hunter’s Mark increases all damage dealt to the target by 10% for 40sec. 2min. CD

2nd idea:
Hunter’s Mark increases all damage dealt by 10% until 20% of the targets health got consumed.

3rd idea:
Hunter’s Mark, as long its on the target, increases all damage dealt by 3% (equals more or less Druid Buff)

4th idea: Skip hunter’s mark and give each pet family its own raid buff (Ferocity 5% physical dmg, Cunning 5% magic damage, Tenacity some DR or other defensive buff)

I absolutely hate having our raid buff tied to an ability i dislike using, especially when you compare it to similar raid buffs like the dh and monk ones. It does not feel good to use and is not fun to use. And it was quite demotivating to see the raid buff we got after i saw the announcement that we got one. i have no suggestions on how to fix it, but in its current state it does not feel good or fun to use.

2 Likes

bad because a healer can dispell it and can allow the target to instant restealth and the hunter will have 10% less damage on the target

Bad because hunter mark can be dispelled by a healer and allow the target to restealth while the hunter have 10% less damage overall

Bad because hunter mark is dispellable and nerf hunter damage by 3% when no hunter mark

bad because it force hunter to take a pet in M+ when the best option for multiple target is to run lone wolf

1 Like

I logged on the PTR and the change to hunter’s mark felt really bad:

  • When killing normal mobs/questing it makes no sense to use hunter’s mark for the bonus. If a mob has 500K health, I get a total of 5k damage extra if I use hunter’s mark. It’s not even worth the global! The other classes have passive raid buffs (3% vers, increased physical damage taken, etc.) and they don’t need to press a button for every mob when they want to take advantage of it. It’s just always there.
  • In PVE you need to reapply this until the boss/mob gets below 80% health. I hate this. Making hunter’s mark a rotational ability is not fun at all.
  • In PVP it gets dispelled along with other debuffs, or you don’t have the GCD to use it just for such a small value, or you want to save it for the utility if the enemy team has stealth classes/mages/night elves.

Overall, in all kinds of content (both casual and end-game) this change does not feel fun.

Even worse, if this goes through, even if I never want to use hunter’s mark for the damage portion, I will be essentially “nerfed”, because hunter will be balanced from now on with the assumption that it brings a “raid buff” and “extra damage”.

None of the people I’ve spoken to likes this change. There has to be a better way.

4 Likes

I thought we had this discussion during Shadowlands already. Poor implementation, the button is both annoying and awkward because of the cooldown.

Going the way of Feral Druid’s Dire Fixation by making a special attack tied to a specialization apply it automatically wouldn’t work either because sometime you would want to keep the debuff on a specific target while you temporarily attack something else.

3 Likes

646 NA posts, 30 EU posts, people have actually spent time on it, referred to what they tested on PTR, and all of that just to keep getting ignored

No wait, we got the worst “raid” buff(cause its useless outside of raid) of all time, not only the worst, but worst to use as well.

Ill just keep on posting every day until MM 4p is reworked

MM 4p gain is 100dps.

3 Likes

BM should get more skill related talents to reflect the damage he does. Otherwise I think a nerf should be passed down to this spec.

MM and SV should be higher ranked as they require player awareness

Day 2 of posting with no changes to mm.

Every single other class got a change to tier set, MM got none, the dps gain stays at 100 dps. We are still going to use 2p + 2 offparts cause the 4p is so dog.

Imagine making a 4 set bonus (MM) that is possibly worse to wear than 2 lower ilvl pieces with better secondaries.

Whats going on here, seriously, the MM 10.1 set was fairly awful, but now the 10.2 set is just hilarious as its not an upgrade at all.

After several PTR patches, still no change, is the requirement to be a hunter class developer to be braindead?

2 Likes

Day 3 of posting with no changes to mm.

MM 4p dps gain stays at 100 dps. We are still going to use 2p + 2 offparts cause the 4p is so bad.

Make hunter’s mark also 20-0

Give hunter any m+ utility. Binding shot is useless. Werdup made a list of nice things that could be added in.

MM hunter will 100% be benched on every fight in raid and entirely useless and unplayable in m+.

20% aura buff is not enought to make MM competetive. State of the spec is beyond fixing without big changes.

I will quit the game together with my mm collegues and cancel the subscription if nothing will be done.

Day 4 of posting with no changes to mm.

MM 4p dps gain stays at 100 dps. We are still going to use 2p + 2 offparts cause the 4p is so bad.

Make hunter’s mark also 20-0

Give hunter any m+ utility. Binding shot is useless. Werdup made a list of nice things that could be added in.

MM hunter will 100% be benched on every fight in raid and entirely useless and unplayable in m+.

20% aura buff is not enought to make MM competetive. State of the spec is beyond fixing without big changes.

I will quit the game together with my mm collegues and cancel the subscription if nothing will be done.


Day 5 of posting with no changes to mm.

MM 4p dps gain stays at 100 dps. We are still going to use 2p + 2 offparts cause the 4p is so bad.

Make hunter’s mark also 20-0

Give hunter any m+ utility. Binding shot is useless. Werdup made a list of nice things that could be added in.

MM hunter will 100% be benched on every fight in raid and entirely useless and unplayable in m+.

20% aura buff is not enought to make MM competetive. State of the spec is beyond fixing without big changes.

I will quit the game together with my mm collegues and cancel the subscription if nothing will be done.


Day 6 of posting with no changes to mm.

MM 4p dps gain stays at 100 dps. We are still going to use 2p + 2 offparts cause the 4p is so bad.

Make hunter’s mark also 20-0

Give hunter any m+ utility. Binding shot is useless. Werdup made a list of nice things that could be added in.

MM hunter will 100% be benched on every fight in raid and entirely useless and unplayable in m+.

20% aura buff is not enought to make MM competetive. State of the spec is beyond fixing without big changes.

I will quit the game together with my mm collegues and cancel the subscription if nothing will be done.


Day 7 of posting with no changes to mm.

SINCE I CANT POST
Day 8 of posting with no changes to mm.

2 Likes

So I was testing the hunter changes on the PTR today, and I would like to share my feedback on them. I want to address the particular 10.2. changes, without discussing overall utility, survivalbility or talent tree issues some players are concerned about.

Firstly BM’s updates are imo very positive, the cooldown feels impactful, the removal of the previous talents was a good change as well as the newly introduced talents. Giving BM a strong cooldown and a posibility of a small funnel gameplay via barbed shot reducing kill command’s cds are both great. Personally I would shorten the Frenzy buff to the previous 8s so it is consistent with Thrill of the Hunt, and also keeping the BM gameplay where we have to manage a little bit the frenzy duration with barbed shot being longer cd than the buff itself. Also the new set bonuses are very thematic, fun and potent, so no complaints there.

Survival’s only update is the new set. FotE is imo a very fun button to press, so making a set around it is fine. It plays heavily into the bomb builds with coordinated assault which is a very fun playstyle, though I would prefer to have a usable Spearhead build focused on Mongoose bite for single target raid encouters, which would utilize more our Mastery. I tried using such a build using the FotE to buff our ST burst windows, but it is very lackluster compared to normal CA build. With the set bonus granting a huge value to our crits, I found that Master Marksman takes a big portion of our damage, which feels a bit weird consindering it’s just a passive talent in the class tree. Overall both BM a SV hunter feel very good and pending balance changes I am looking forward to play them in 10.2

The same cannot be said about Marksmanship. There are not many changes so far, one talent change and of course the new tier set. First for the talent change. The idea to reduce huge rng differences pull to pull is definitely correct. MM had a sort of a slot machine vibe. However the talent change is very disappointing. We don’t get small trueshot procs, which were problematic but fun to react to, instead we get fixed 10s longer trueshots. Except we don’t for the start of the fight. It does not make much sense to me, why for MM hunter which has a small niche in doing larger damage on high hp targets, with careful aim and new hunter’s mark, in this window our cooldown is like 35% shorter, than in the rest of the fight.

The fact that the talent doesn’t say flatly 10s longer trueshot suggest, that we have to earn that buff with good play. But you can get 10 stacks comfortably in 1 minute just using your spells, so there is no difference whether you play well or not. Furthermore the overall difference in dmg is also very high. I’ve tested this on dummies and on live you can have comforably around 40% trueshot uptime, with this new talent it’s only about 25%. Again that’s like 37% nerf with no compensation. I wonder what would the fire mage community say, if their current 50-55% combustion uptime was nerfed this much.

Secondly the new tier set. The 2set is not actually that bad imo. It gives you some cleave even if not specced into aoe (which is very points heavy a costs a lot of single target dmg). It does have a potential small 2-3% benefit in ST with rapid fire defacto activating Razor Fragments, so in a Deathblow build, it does at least something. The 4-set does not do much of anything. I’ve tested the same character on live vs ptr, while on ptr I equipped the new set, which granted me 5 ilvls yet my ST dmg was something like 15-20% lower. If there is no compensation for these huge ST nerfs, I don’t see many MM hunters raiding next patch, as ST is very important there. The 4-set definitely needs a rework, one possibility I thought of is for the rapid fire to grant like 10-20% damage amplification to the primary target for something like 6s. This would increase the potency of our cooldown (we would be able to keep that debuff up the whole window) and it would insentivize holding aimed shot charge for the small rapid fire window, making our out of cd rotation a bit more interesting. The post is long enough so I will leave it here.

1 Like

Really why? Bm is in a very good state atm yes its easy, but retribution is at the same level of play also VERY EASY.

Mm hunter 4-set does nothing. Any changes planned?

3 Likes