Feedback: Hunters

Give that Sentinel Owl some AI so the aoe circle will follow the enemy targeted. I dont want another round of tank moving mobs or bosses out of that tiny circle.

Other than that the Sentinel Hero Talent is by far my favourite, class fantasy and synergy is good.

3 Likes

How removing Lunge (8 yd melee range) absolutely kills Survival, and Survival only

Flanking Strike was 18 yard range, now 15. Huge loss.
Aspect of the Eagle 43 yards, now 40.
Chakram was 43 yards, now 40.
Kill Command was 53 yards, now 50.
Kill Shot was 43 yards, now 40.
Muzzle was 8 yard range, now 5.
Serpent Sting was 43 yard range, now 40.
Raptor Strike 8 yards, now 5.

Lunge was a HUGE part of the spec, which fits for many reasons, thematically most of all. Primal caveman that hunts with a spear/polearm.

This was essential in making the weave in/out playstyle possible. A playstyle you have to adopt, as defensives or innate tankiness is completely vacant.

A big .!. to the (probably 1) Hunter developer left at Blizz.

3 Likes

Super dissapointed in Dark Ranger. It just feels like another type of shot.

Dark chains should be a replacement for Binding Shot that pulls several mobs to a spot and/or roots them.

The doggo’s are cool but I don’t see what they have to do with dark rangers tbh.

Having everything proc off Black Arrow at 10% just means most of the cool stuff isn’t happening most of the time.

Why would anyone ever NOT use Darkness Calls over Shadow Erasure ? Permanant 10% increased damage over a chance that Kill Shot (requires a proc/low health) has a chance to give us another aimed shot charge (that we’re already getting from black arrow) but only if shot at something with a black arrow? It’s a no brainer.

Where’s my cool Banshee effects or something? Give us a scream at the top of the tree that puts the black arrow effect on everyone it hits? We could get all shadowy and floaty whilst we do it! It would be awesome!

5 Likes

BM hunter pack leader seems really underwhelming. Nothing that says or shows “this is new” for now…I am lvl 77, nearly 78. If I did not know there are improvements I would not have noticed anything at all.
Maybe it is going to change when I hit 80. We’ll see.

1 Like

So far with the new build, I miss Wailing Arrow a lot. Otherwise it feels like more buttons and generally underwhelming.

Hello Hunters! We’re very excited to unveil the class and spec tree updates for Hunter today!

We had a few goals going into this update, and we wanted to communicate those so the Hunter community will have some more direction when giving feedback in the coming weeks.

Across the Hunter core tree and all spec trees, we had these goals:

  • Improve secondary stat scaling across all Hunter specializations
  • Condense existing damage effects
  • Conservatively expand on the range of Hunter utility
  • Solidify rotational gameplay and fantasy of each spec

Core Tree

The Hunter core tree had a substantial amount of throughput relative to other core trees, which all had to be generic given how differently each spec can utilize the Hunter class tools and spells. This led to a lot of passive damage instances and didn’t do a ton to expand on each spec’s gameplay.

We’ve culled a lot of passive damage procs in the core tree, added some more situational utility, expanded on Hunter defensives, and made sure that each Hunter spec can meaningfully utilize the spells available to them in their core tree.

Beast Mastery

Beast Mastery’s gameplay has remained solid through Dragonflight, and we weren’t interested in rocking the boat too violently with this update.

Beast Mastery and the Hunter class in general have had a host of passive damage over time effects across many abilities. To help add some more cohesion to all these disparate damage over time effects, we added some bonuses like Basilisk Collar to help push the damage over time gameplay in a very Beast Mastery direction.

Beast Mastery is not a damage over time spec, and we are aiming to keep it that way. Your pets will always be the primary source of your damage and the DoTs you apply will more often than not be completely passive or passive procs-- but we felt the sheer number of DoT effects Beast Mastery has merited some deeper support.

Lastly, we were interested in pushing on the boundaries of Beast Mastery’s fantasy by adding talents like Huntmaster’s Call. We feel that it is important for Beast Mastery to be primarily about your tamed and summonable pets, but we’re also interested in more deeply expressing the “Wildcaller” part of Beast Mastery’s fantasy. We hope that calling upon beasts of legend and summoning swarms of crows should help to make you feel like the flavor of Hunter that can call upon the wilds to aid you in battle.

Marksmanship

At the beginning of the update process, we were feeling mostly pleased with the individual effects found across the Marksmanship tree. However, we had more of an issue with how these effects all worked in concert.

Precise Shots is a meaningful and expressive part of Marksmanship gameplay, but currently Aimed Shots has a hard time sharing the spotlight with all the other various effects found across the Marksmanship tree—especially during Trueshot. We are aiming to “unclog” the Marksmanship Trueshot rotation with a redesigned Eagletalon’s True Focus. With Eagletalon’s True Focus talented, firing an Arcane Shot or Multi-Shot will immediately fire another Arcane Shot or Multi-Shot that will benefit from and consume Precise Shots. This should help you to continue to get value out of Precise Shots in your Trueshot rotation, and you can focus on the more exciting parts of Trueshot, which are Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire.

The Wind Arrow suite of talents have been an exciting visual and gameplay component of Marksmanship for quite some time, but their effects and bonuses have gotten more complex over time. With this update, we wanted to dramatically simplify the effects of Legacy of the Windrunners and add some more exciting payoffs via a now-passive Wailing Arrow and an update to the Readiness capstone that should add some more skill expression and further increase the excitement of Trueshot.

Lastly, we wanted to ensure Marksmanship was owning its niche of burst AoE. Talents like Kill Zone and Rapid Fire Barrage are intended to not only be fantasy-forward and exciting talents in their own right, but encourage groups to try out a Marksmanship hunter if they want some sizeable burst every 60 seconds.

Survival

Survival has had a few different iterations over the course of WoW’s history, and with the addition of the Dragonflight talent tree, we saw a collision of many effects both old and new. With this talent tree update, we wanted to take a swing at making Survival’s kit more cohesive and taming some of the more complicated effects across the tree.

The more impactful core change to Survival is going to be Tip of the Spear’s new design. We really liked the story that this talent told and the gameplay behind it-- the Survival Hunter and their pet working in concert to deal more damage. As such, we’re expanding its effects on the talent itself and also opening it up to be augmented across the talent tree in various ways. We hope that this new core rotational concept will help to create satisfying gameplay and help to sell the Survival fantasy a bit more.

Many of Survival’s spells were either very simple (Flanking Strike) or incredibly complex (Coordinated Assault + Supporting Talents). We wanted to take some steps to smooth out the average complexity of Survival’s talents while also honing in on the core rotational gameplay and how that might be more cleanly augmented by supporting talents. More complicated talents like Deadly Duo and Wildfire Infusion have been replaced with effects that are simpler, stronger, and have more moment-to-moment implications for your gameplay.

Explosions are a core part of the Survival experience, and alongside the core rotational changes we made, we also proliferated access to Wildfire Bomb and Explosive Shot. Grenade Juggler and the new Bombardier are working in concert to make Explosive Shot a more appealing and excitement-driving rotational spell, and we hope you enjoy blowing things up in the War Within!

Lastly, we are aware that Wildfire Infusion’s previous iteration provided a great splash of color to the Survival experience that is now lost. We are interested in exploring ways we can amp up the visual excitement of Survival in the future, but we do not have anything to share at this time.

Phew, that’s a lot of changes! We are really excited to read everyone’s feedback regarding these updates and can’t wait for you to get your hands on them!

Thank you for reading!

7 Likes

This is just such amazing changes that it warrants a reconsideration of main.

I really like your thoughtprocess here!

GJ!

Yes indeed. Making it a passive removes functionality. I’ve used it as a secondary interrupt but what use is that now when it’s random when it happens. Plus there are many fights were aoe is bad and they’re forcing an aoe on us and removing aimed shot in the process. maybe a workaround if it’s a buff you can click off, to get aimed shot back, in those circumstances but that’s very clunky, when having it as an actual active ability is better.

And the wind arrow suite was never exciting visual and gameplay, it was just gameplay. Nothing exciting about it.

Also, Lone Wolf down to 5%. I don’t use meters but is that much more than having a pet out? 10% was clearly better than a pet.

1 Like

General Hunter problems still exists. Hunter’s Mark its bad design. Please remove this or make it better/passive proc on first mob you hit with + add some aoe component into it.
Binding Shot still feels bad man. Scatter Shot maybe as aoe blind without removing dots on pve ? Hunter lacks aoe interrupt whatsover compare to every other class in game. Binding shot its not reliable and Intimidation only stun 3 mobs + you need spend 2 points into it to have meh stun. Maybe explosive trap as knock up instead please? Give us some utility that is usefull and proper raid/m+ buff instead of Hunter’s Mark please.

On first glance Survival CA still same issues (need macro to focus on proc you want), please rework this into something more as dmg amp 20% more dmg and + haste or something this lines. Rotation and procs doesnt need more complex then its now.

Sentinel on bomb proc will be akward on m+ when tank pulling all mobs and you send bomb to make some threat with md and its spawn in middle of nowhere.
Wildfire bomb could use some radius increase around target that get hit for some qol.

MM: I don’t mind playing with pet for extra utility as long as its competetive to lone wolf which in live retail isn’t. This version its alot better and balanced. Extra 10% leech or last stand and extra hp for having pet? I am all in. Big fan of change and fixing problem with poping bl and dissmis pet which atm its horrible experience.
Also i would like to see aoe cap go away in favor of dimishing returns as any other spec in the game. Requirments to proc trickshot 3 mobs i know there is hard battle for this in years but maybe let it go? and work as beastcleave for next cast no need to hit targets to get it please? :slight_smile:

Other things seems decent. I hope we get better iterration of utlity stuff some improvments in that department aswell as redesign Hunter’s Mark in some good buff for m+ users aswell. Overall big step forward and need more work on it.

6 Likes

A lot of good changes in class tree, way less 2 nodes for no reason as well, like that a lot.

But here’s some basic problems with hunters that still exists after the reworks :

  • Lust (Primal Rage) should be baseline imo, just like any other class that has a lust ability, there is no reason for it to be tied to pet, it feels bad even as BM to change pet and lose survivability (passive stamina and fortitude of the bear) and get a leech % that doesn’t even work that well for BM because it doesn’t work with pet damage… to be able to use Primal Rage, for MM its way worse and nerfing lone wolf doesn’t help with that. maybe just remove Lone Wolf and buff MM overall damage by a bit instead ?
    I think Primal Rage need to be baseline and ferocity pets should get another special ability maybe.
    If it needs to be something in line with others it can be like a leech % increase for 20 sec but you need to fix BM’s interaction with leech first for it.

  • MM AOE is still completely useless for 2 targets since trick shot need at least 3 targets, we only have AOE on 2 targets for the duration of volley which is only 6 sec every 45 sec, the latest tier set helped with this a bit but only RNG.

  • Misdirection is useless for BM since it doesn’t work with pet damage and 85-90% of our damage is pet damage and pets are dying a lot right now in m+ season 4 because of it not working, we don’t even pick misdirection anymore as BM… same for leech almost useless for BM and we’re getting 15% leech from ferocity pets…weird

  • For AOE stops we can get a choice node with binding shot maybe ? that give us an AOE scatter shot or something, like what rogues got with AOE blind.
    Bursting Shot is not that bad but you need to be in melee to use it and they need to be exactly in front of you.

3 Likes

So the spec fantasy of Marksman is the sniper/lone ranger etc fantasty. And you nerf the main talent, Lone Wolf with 50% so we can use the pet more. With this change we might as well just go with the pet anyway, in every situation. You make less options, not more.

Why don’t you just give Bloodlust to Marksman as Baseline instead?

Nerf Lone Wolf to 7.5% but it also give Bloodlust. Or keep it as it was before the change. I always went with my pet for bloodlust for the groups sake. Now I can just go with the pet in any other situation instead. Where does the option then go?

Edit: legacy of the windrunners and Focused Aim(row 7) got 2 points, but 2nd point doesn’t improve the talent. Typo or are they supposed to be one pointers? Can’t see any info about Focused Aim at all

5 Likes

So first of all, huge thanks to the dev team for putting in this huge amount of work into hunter!

So far I’m very happy with the survival talent ideas, its very cool stuff. There are a few pain points tho.

As it looks now, we will be leaning extremely heavily into bombs and explosive shots for aoe. Wich is fine, they are our big aoe abilities after all, and im certainly no bomb hater that wants them gone… BUT especially now since we got the cool new toys in the middle right of the tree that would enable us to use mb more in aoe and through it spread ss, it would be a shame if we never got to use them. With all this bomb cdr and explosive shot procs, it simply wont be worth much to have mb cleave.
And cleaving goose bites is something a lot of survival hunters have wished for for years! It’s so awesome! It would be a great shame to never use it in favour of only spamming bombs.

I hope blizz finds away to strike a balance here that doesnt have us abandon our spear entirely for aoe. As much as explosions have become part of our identity, so is the spear it should remain so. Even in aoe. Especially mongoose bite, its THE iconic spell we have!
Honestly it should just be baseline, or maybe replace raptorstrike in the tree, it is so much more interesting than raptorstrike in every way. Now that tip empowers all kinds of abilities even more so.

Speaking of baseline, harpoon should be baseline too. It’s such a fun and necessary mobility spell for us. But now it competes with throughput talents… that never feels good. Please reconsider this choice.

1 Like

Disclaimer: The following review comes from the perspective of a PvE Survival Hunter who refused to play BM and found MM too tedious and incoherent. As such, vast majority of my feedback below will pertain to Survival only.

Firstly, I wanna thank you and the team for the updates. I initially literally moved my Hunter at the bottom of the list of my characters to play, but now I have changed my mind, and probably a lot of other players. Many will say stuff that indicates the trees are not perfect, but I will say that this is a tremendous improvement of what we have in Dragonflight.

The core tree is a much better iteration of what a Hunter of any specialization might need, a cleaner choice that better aligns with all specializations, without offering dead talents (i.e., Kill Command enhancements for Marksmanship). There are a lot of valuable defensive options in the top-left part of the tree, giving easy access to the much sought after survivability that Hunters often complained about, with a bonus one added to Camouflage. Intimidation for on demand Stun is easy to get, while Explosive Shot is now the defining ability available to all specs, and I like how Survival gets extra benefit from it (though it feels like Marksmanship should as well). I personally love the new capstone that gives us dispel on Feign Death/Turtle, as well as the fact we can pick all 3 capstones with relative ease.

A few bad apples from my perspective:

  • Tar Trap feels mandatory to get Survival of the Fittest and further down the tree, given the alternative is a primarily solo play talent.
  • Binding Shot is locked behind very situational talents, which are unlikely to be useful in the content that benefits from the AoE stun talent.
  • Roar of Sacrifice being almost a capstone would be much better off as an external cooldown that also reduced the damage taken by the target by that 10% (weaker version of Blessing of Sacrifice), even if it’s not usable on the casting Hunter.
  • Minor thing, but there is no point for the middle capstone to be called Death Chakram given its no longer a Shadowlands ability - just rename it Deadly Chakram or Throw Chakram.

Making Tip of the Spear the central mechanic of the spec is a good direction. It lives up to fantasy of a pet class, and offers a mechanic worth tracking (easily even without WeakAuras). Flanker’s Advantage adds crit scaling, which is good, and Flanking Strike is no longer a glorified Kill Command, with Exposed Flank enabling extra cleave damage. (Note: It would be nice if it was clearer whether it adds an extra stack of 15%, or adds 15% additively or multiplicatively.)

  • Tip of the Spear tooltip is unclear that it doesn’t specify that using an ability other than Kill Command consumes only 1 stack rather than all, which is how it works in Dragonflight.
  • It might also be worth pointing out that Exposed Flank’s Kill Command cleave does not grant additional stacks.
  • Both issues can be solved by adjusting the verbiage of the Tip of the Spear to something like “Using Kill Command grants you Tip of the Spear, stacking up to 3 times. Using your other abilities expends a stack to increase their damage by 15%.

I personally didn’t mind old Wildfire Infusion, but it did require a set of WeakAuras to get the most out of it, and sometimes put the rotation in awkward position (rare, but instances where you sat on 2 charges of bomb with full focus bar and Pheromone being the first bomb to cast ). So, I very much welcome this change.

I absolutely love the interaction offered by the Grenade Juggler, involving procs that reset Explosive Shot (which also explodes automatically if there’s another one already sitting on the target, great QoL solution) and Wildfire Grenade CDR for a pleasant loop.

The only “negative” comment I’d have is that Explosive Shot is somewhat core to Survival (affected by 5 spec talents, including a capstone that doesn’t benefit free Explosive Shot from Sulfur-Lined Pockets), yet it can theoretically be be skipped in the core tree (It’s silly to do so, but doable). It might be a good idea to swap it with Kill Shot (which currently cannot be unlearned by Survival), even if for Survival only.

While (as I mentioned) I love Grenade Juggler gameplay, personally explosions strike me as a core theme of a Survival Hunter, a specialization that brings an image of a skulking predator patiently waiting for their pray before striking the killing blow. It’s just that loud and obnoxious explosions aren’t something that rings Survival to me.

I personally find most visual (and auditory) excitement with Mongoose Bite, when at 5 stacks the character jumps up and yells to make the massive attack. For me, that is the apex of Survival rotation and I wish more classes had similar visuals (on my BDK I need to jump manually to make Death Strike feel as good…)


Few words on the layout of the tree:

It looks like it is possible to focus more on Kill Command by investing more into right side of the tree. I need to test it still, but if my observations are right and testing can confirm it, it looks like we have an alternative playstyle and possibly a more ST oriented option to Wildfire Bomb AoE focused left side.

With the above, it looks like our two hero classes somewhat force us into a playstyle, with Pack Leader being ST oriented and Sentinel being AoE. I doubt this is intentional, but it might be how the two will be used if the tuning for Survival spec tree leads in that direction. Given that the hero talents talents themselves lean into those buckets doesn’t help - Pack Leader talents lean heavily into ST

Wildfire Bombs appear to not benefit from the pandemic effect and don’t roll their damage when recast on a target already affected by it, which can lead to waste on bomb CDRs (especially later in game with higher Haste levels). It’s probably a minor incovenience that occurs with lucky procs, but it still can happen.


Personal notes/issues/bugs:

The Good

  • Survival’s new Mastery looks much better now.
    – For now, it looks like the 100% bonus does not apply to damage, but it might be a bug or failed observation on my end (I haven’t done extensive numbers testing yet). Also, the buff that states the bond is strong and effects are increased by 100% doesn’t apply immediately when pet comes in range with the player (might be refreshed on the weird server-side 5.5 second tick), which is a minor issue most of the time.
  • Serpent Sting is now simplified in its application, and (each spec!) has a way to spread the DoT by just performing single target rotation. It’s good that the poison aspect of Hunters was not entirely forgotten.
    – Applying Serpent Sting via Survival Viper’s Venom clips the melee attack with the little offhand crossbow shot animation, likely a bug/leftover from old design.
  • Updated, simplified Spearhead is now a much simpler ability acting as a clear ST cooldown.
    – The tooltip doesn’t specify the that the bleed actually does decent damage every second - needs updating.
  • Merciless Blows and Exposed Flank offer 3-target full damage cleave options, which can be useful in certain situations (historically many raid bosses come to mind).
  • Coordinated Assault is now clearly defined as the main cooldown of the spec.
    – Like with other classes and specs that have a major cooldown, I believe it should be moved to gate 2, unless of course Survival is tuned around it being optional and not expected to be taken for certain encounters or builds.

The Bad

  • With removal of Shrapnel Bomb (Blue Wildfire Infusion bomb), Butchery loses a lot of value, and to get full benefit from it, it requires additional talent point in Frenzy Strikes.
  • Survival Hunter with Pack Leader doesn’t play like a PACK Leader, since we always have only a single pet, and as far as I am aware, pack requires more than a single beast (player not included). The exception is the choice node talent Beast of Opportunity, but it only lasts 6 seconds every per 60/90 seconds.
  • Explosive Expert, Sweeping Spear, and Killer Companion talents are really boring 2-point talents that gate the capstones. Sweeping Spear also shows some weird numbers (0%/1%). Please reduce them to 1 point or expand their usefulness, as they are currently unworthy of being gate 3 opening talents.
  • Explosives Expert is very underwhelming due to the fact we get a lot of CDR on Wildfire Bomb. The name indicates multiple explosives, maybe have the talent increase Wildfire Bomb’s if used within X seconds of casting Explosive Shot, or make it deal 20%/40% extra damage to secondary targets?
  • Even if the Sweeping Spear bonuses are 5%/10%, it’s still boring and the bonus might as well be baked directly into abilities. The name suggests cleaving effect, so maybe change it so the RS/MB deals additional cleave damage?
  • Killer Companion… Maybe make Kill Command deal extra 25/50% damage to targets below 20% HP (same as Kill Shot)? This will align nicely with Sic 'Em (which leads to Killer Companion) and the crit-centric talents available in the right side of the tree.

The Ugly

  • Carve was removed completely. It was a dead talent due to bad tuning, but I think if Frenzy Strikes are a thing and Butchery was kept as talent, Carve should also return and be baseline (with Butchery replacing it), just appropriately tuned and CD reduced to ~3sec so there is an alternative to Butchery and to have a button to press in target-rich environments when all other AoE/cleave abilities are on CD.
  • Related to the above, Pack Leader’s talents Scattered Prey/Covering Fire requires Butchery to work, same with Sentinel’s Symphonic Arsenal. When not talented, it lists Carve as the ability the talent affects.
  • For some reason, both Quick Shot and Sulfur-Lined Pockets mention “at 100% effectiveness”. Unless the number is different than 100%, it being mentioned is pointless and should be hidden; “fire at Arcane Shot at your target at 100% of normal value” means same as “fire an Arcane Shot at your target”. It just looks ugly.
  • Last and not least… Why are we still using polearms and not dual wielding axes? Rexxar, our archetypal Survival Hunter is still in the background of our spec tree, and he doesn’t hold any spear, instead we can see the two axes (one in hand, one on the back). Like, seriously, please! We (I) beg you! Let us dual wield like our hero (even if its just cosmetic)…

Apologies for the wall of text and I hope someone will find this useful. I will drop another wall of text after I conclude the “rotation/how it feels/preliminary numbers” testing, firstly on dummy and later if/when I get into Raid/Mythic+ testing.

3 Likes

Hunter tree feedback :

  • Binding shot and scatter shot need to swap positions in the talent tree.
    we ALWAYS need scatter shot in PvP and dont always need the binding shot stun
    quick load and tar coating should swap positions too

  • trailblazer and path finder should swap places too, whilst some prefer the "30% movement speed when not attacking " this is a wasted talent in PVP.

  • improved traps shouldn’t be in the position it currently is, maybe it could swap places with binding shackles

these changes would make logical sense as the connected talents are associated with the skill mentioned

1 Like

Really big fan of the changes overall. There’s some things I’ll miss, but the core parts I like are still there.

Really enjoy turning Murder of Crows into a passive Kill Command buff, as I always liked the spell but it was nowhere near viable.

My one gripe, and its been like this since the Dragonflight beta, and it’s a purely cosmetic bug so I know it won’t be major but its Call of the Wild. The spell’s tooltip reads:

"You sound the call of the wild, summoning 2 of your active pets for 20 sec. During this time, a random pet from your stable will appear every 4 sec to assault your target for 6 sec.

Each time Call of the Wild summons a pet, the cooldown of Barbed Shot and Kill Command are reduced by 50%."

But that isn’t how the spell functions. It summons 2 of your active pets (usually the same one), and then also only summons active pets every 4 seconds (again, usually the same one). If you mouse over the actual buff applied when you use the ability it reads “summoning one of your active pets every 4 seconds” - so the internal function of the spell doesn’t match its description.

Lets say Hati is my main pet. I use Call of the Wild and now I have about 5 Hati’s attacking my target. I was hoping this spell would have been more like the old version of Stampede, and would summon a menagerie of pets from my stables, because I find it really removes immersion from the gameplay when one of the pets suddenly is quadrupled.

I would love to see it tweaked to actually pull from the stable, the way that (for example), Glyph of the Dire Stable works

1 Like

BM feedback :

Killer Cobra, i cant help but feel kill shot is the wrong target for this to proc, would it not make more sense to tie it in with Kill command criticals ?
we dont often see kill shot and makes the " kill shot choice node " a must … some people dont waste the GCD on kill shot in pvp as kill command is better

1 Like

First of all, it is great to see much-needed changes coming to Hunters, thank you for your efforts! I believe these changes are definitely a step in the right direction, in that they certainly improve the talent trees and gameplay across all three specs. However, I believe that these changes (especially in the class tree) mostly fail to address the underlying issues that have been plaguing Hunters for several expansions now (most predominantly, a lack of good utility and a proper raid buff, but also other issues such as a severe weakness to rot damage).
Regarding the Class Tree:
• I agree that removing a lot of these small, passive damage increase talents is a good decision; most of them were not exciting to pick. Turning a lot of two-point talents into one-point talents was also much needed.
• A good decision to make Intimidation useable without a pet. However, with Intimidation now also basically being an AoE Stun, Binding Shot has become even less useful.
• Unfortunately, a lot of the newly added talents feel extremely niche and useless in most situations. I found myself creating sample Raid and M+ builds and even for the latter (usually requiring more utility), I picked a lot of talent points just to be able to reach the next row, not because they were actually strong: Ghillie Suit for example. Maybe I’m missing something, but you’re not really taking damage in Camouflage anyways and since you can’t use it in combat, it also wouldn’t work as a defensive. When would this talent ever be useful, even in PvP? Same with Scout’s Instincts (the last time this would’ve been useful was Sire Denathrius I guess) or Kindling Flare. Maybe these talents are mainly aimed at PvP, but if they are, why are they in the class tree and not among the PvP Talents?
Overall, as it stands, this class tree is much better than the old one, but will not save Hunter from being one of the least picked classes for high M+ keys.
Regarding Beast Mastery:
• I agree that BM was probably the spec that needed the least adjustment; its rotation is boring (in a good way) but well-rounded, and most talent points felt powerful and fun to pick.
• Overall, the new tree feels very bottom heavy; 13 different nodes to pick in the bottom section is quite a bit, especially with 3 of them being two-point talents. This especially sucks because a lot of them (Barbed Wrath and Scent of Blood in particular) are “mandatory” talents that in DF made up a core part of BMs rotation and one of the reasons why the spec felt so enjoyable to play. With the new tree, you thus have very few points available to choose from the many different capstone talents. Consider at least moving Barbed Wrath up one row or making some of the two-pointers into one-pointers.
• The new version of Bloodshed, especially in conjunction with Venomous Bite & Basilisk Collar sounds like a very exciting and strong single target cooldown. However, if BM should have the option for a playstyle with more emphasis on DoTs, Serpent Sting needs to be applied more easily. Right now, you can only apply it via Kill Shot (which is notoriously weak for BM, and, unless you pick Hunter’s Prey, not even useable above 20% health) or every 5 Cobra Shots/Multi-Shots. That sucks. Consider either making a different ability other than Kill Shot apply it or buffing Kill Shot for BM so that the button doesn’t feel bad to press (for example, give it the same Kill Command CDR that Cobra Shot has).
• Speaking of Explosive Venom: This talent will require a Weak Aura & micro management to ensure that in AoE you don’t accidentally use Cobra Shot rather than Multi-Shot when the Serpent Sting application is ready. That’s not ideal. Consider making this talent Multi-Shot only, but even then it’s not ideal: What if you reach that fifth Multi-Shot when a pack is about to die?
• Bestial Wrath is currently in an awkward spot in the tree. In single target, you either have to pick Kindred Spirits (two points for very little dps gain) or Hunter’s Prey (Kill Shot sucks for BM) to get it.
• Why was War Orders nerfed to a 25% reset chance? I understand that the 100% we had during DF Beta were too powerful, but the 50% was a good sweet spot.
• Improved Kill Command also needs adjustment, right now its gives 5% dmg increase to Kill Command, while Alpha Predator (right next to it) gives 15% and two charges.
Regarding Marksmanship:
• In my opinion the tree that needed a rework the most; the majority of talents were just “ability X deals Y more damage / costs Z less focus / has its cooldown reduced by A”. It’s good to see that most of these were replaced with more exciting talents.
• It was also a good decision to make Precise Shots always grant two charges. However, between the newly added 50% Focus cost reduction and the 20 Focus cost reduction from Crack Shots, Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot will now only cost 10 Focus. Is that intended?
• Unfortunately, Steady Focus is still a thing. While I personally don’t mind it, I understand why 95% of Hunter players do. Consider making its duration 20 seconds so you don’t have to constantly press two Steady Shots every 10ish seconds.
• The nerf of Lone Wolf from 10% to 5% is understandable, but I am afraid it will lead to the 5% not being worth the utility and talent point sacrifice, meaning that MM will probably run around with a pet all the time again (which I am not a big fan of). Consider maybe adding a grace period of 10 seconds? Although that might lead to unnecessary min-maxing. Or just decouple Bloodlust from your pet.
• Rapid Fire Barrage sounds super fun and powerful in AoE. Unfortunately, historically, talents that are exclusively useful in AoE (such as Light Ammo) tend to be picked very rarely, even in M+. Specs that have a hybrid build that requires little talent change between single target and AoE tend to do better than specs with very specialized builds. I am therefore afraid that Rapid Fire Barrage will see little play.
• The change to Eagletalon’s True Focus is a good one. While I personally did not mind exclusively spamming Aimed Shot during Trueshot, I understand that not using Precise Shots procs felt weird.
• Now, onto Windrunner’s / Wailing Arrow. This is in my opinion currently the biggest issue with an otherwise pretty good tree. As it stands, the Wind Arrows themselves do very little damage. They just serve as a means to be able to use Wailing Arrow. However, as it stands, Wailing Arrow also does very little damage, less than a regular Aimed Shot (in single target, but probably also in AoE since Wailing Arrow doesn’t ricochet). In other words, you are spending 3 capstone talent points to get a weaker version of Aimed Shot every 20 Wind Arrows. I haven’t done the math, but I believe picking these three talents actually equates a damage nerf.
• Alright then, but at least they give access to Readiness, right? True. But I don’t think that Readiness is powerful enough to warrant investing 4 capstone talent points. In fact, one of the main selling points of Readiness is that you will get it quite often during Trueshot, thanks to the increased amount of Wind Arrows. However, Trueshot is the one part of your rotation where you already get a lot of Aimed Shots and Rapid Fires, thus essentially making Readiness irrelevant, especially with the new Eagletalon’s True Focus.
• In other words, as it stands, the whole Windrunner’s / Wailing Arrow capstone side is severely disappointing/undertuned. Thankfully, a simple fix would be to drastically increase the damage of Wailing Arrow so that it actually deals more damage than an Aimed Shot and to also allow it to ricochet.
• Nonetheless, even if you massively increased the damage of Wailing Arrow, the right and middle side of the capstone talents would still be better in AoE. This means that you would only pick Wailing Arrow in single target, which is really unfortunate, considering it is meant as an AoE/M+ talent with its silence effect.

I also have my thoughts on SV, but I’ve spent way too much time on BM and MM already, so I might add them later.

Hello. I’ve played CA Surv in s3. It was super fun to play around Wildfire Bombs. Positioning yourself for proper bomb application, then repositioning with Harpoon and Flanking Strike. Combat felt dynamic and engaging.

This rework looks favoring Wildfire Bombs again and I love it. I tried a good ten minutes of dummies on beta. Colored bombs gone, so we have to spend a few talent points to recover Serpent Sting on the targets. Losing focus generation from the red bomb is fine - I can’t remember being focused starved. Spells reducing each other cooldowns is bonkers. CA 20sec duration at 45sec CD in sentinel build, feels good. A lot of Wildfire Bombs and Explosive Shots.

The questions are not new:

  • CA macro situation - I saw different people saying different things whether the macro is still required or not. Doesn’t feel great to have such macros.
  • Fury of the Eagle. Feels clunky. Maybe if it worked like Shuriken Storm it would be nicer. Players be like “damn do I cancel this thing or channel fully”, because we have enough important buttons to press and this long channel makes us stare at the monitor like in afk mode
  • Explosive Shot. I believe it’s bugged right now on beta - it doesn’t let me cast it after it was reset by CA or some other talents, even though it’s glowing and not on cooldown on the actionbar.
  • Harpoon - needs to be baseline or be merged with Terms of Engagement. Feels bad spending 2 talent points on that.
  • Defensives. Didn’t have a chance to use them yet, but feels great to be less restricted with the pet choice.

BM feedback

  • Explosive venom should be tied to Kill command or barbed shot, we dont press cobra shot 5 times for it proc, its a waste… also 5 is a bit high … maybe 3?

could this be changed to barbed shot or kill command please

if not maybe every 2nd cobra could proc the serpent sting… serpent sting is such a LOW damage dealing DoT its not worth the talent choice

As a MM hunter since TBA and 4lyfe I am loving this! Lone wolf nerf very much made up for by the buffs everything else gets.

Seriously guys don’t just read this post go out and play it, read the talents on both trees, you’ll see what i mean. I’m having hella fun :slight_smile: