Feedback: Mages

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Mages in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team

Frostfire Bolt as Frost is just bloody tragic. The amount of procs and effects that thing gives birth to on its own is outrageous. There’s somewhere between 10 or 15 passives affecting it or something? Not quite sure, but it’s somewhere in that ballpark. Why is this necessary?

And why should I limit my focus to the hero talents when it’s a problem in general and has been for all of DF?

When I did my rotation earlier I literally could not tell you which abilities did more damage. The only way to tell is to cast them all in isolation. The readability in terms of connecting damage sources to casts is literally 0.

The instant cast proc on Frostfire Bolt when I’m trying to use it together with a Flurry to get Glacial Spike into it is somewhat annoying.

Just in general, my action bar is kindda flashy and it’s hard to work out what’s happening.

1 Like

Yeah, its too much of a proc-bonanza now. I played a lot of Fire before but even so I got overwhelmed by the sheer amount of procs that just kept coming.

I don’t mind it a lot, though maybe tone it down a notch. New players or players new to Fire is going to struggle.

2 Likes

Arcane general changes feedback:
Arcane have the past expansions had issues with stat priorities which have been followed by a flat dmg aura applied to keep us in par with other specs over the expansion. Why this might be important is to tie some value in stats in other talents such as prodigious savant (which was great).
Clearcasting is going back to the issues back in WoD where arcane mages sat around waiting for procs. WoD was fun in general but the rng of procs can be very boring. One mage could possibly go in a bossfight and be lucky generating more procs then the other, having Arcane Debilitation stacks with a higher % dmg increase then another which would then feel really bad.
Adding a talent for clearcasting 5% flat value is great, changing that to something like “crits further increase your chance for clearcast at x value” might be something to consider. This will further increase certain stat values and make arcane feel better with more stats, something we’ve missed.

TotM is another spell that have been core to arcane gameplay the past expansions, with some issues especially in mythic plus where if something dies, you lose a ton of value. Here i’d rather see a choice node with prismatic crystal coming back. Having TotM on a certain target and prismatic crystal as an option for dungeon content.

There is currently a lot of talents where you have x chance of getting a proc of some kind of dmg. Changing for example leydrinker to always repeat x amount of dmg would feel a lot better. Having the rng tied to CC might be enough instead of adding other elements of rng.

There is currently 20 talentpoints that is tied behind rng. 6 of them are not tied behind clearcasting. This is only the spec tree aswell and needs to be looked at. Proc gameplay can be fun but when its tied around 20 out of 43 talents it needs some pruning because its just too much.

The changes I would recommend for the talent tree is then to remove amplification and make it baseline, make arcane echo baseline in TotM and have TotM in a choicenode with prismatic crystal. For tuning TotM can store more dmg and prismatic crystal less but aoe all dmg. Make PoM baseline and have slipstream and chrono shift as either baseline or higher up the tree as a choice node, so we have to use one of them. I would make any talent thats rng based tuned lower but make them passive and keep clearcasting as the only rngpart of the tree with the exception of Impetus and orb barrage.I would also add some kind of stat integration with CC, just so arcane can get the feeling of progression through an expansion. And lastly as everyone is saying, just remove all 2point nodes.

FROST MAGE - Spec Talent Tree

The frost mage spec tree has some problems in the capstone level. There are FOUR capstone talents that encourage you to press frostbolt, three of them during your cooldown window. No player of any class or spec in the game wants to spend more time pressing filler spells during their burst windows. Also, both hero talents give you tons of resources, making Frostbolt even less fun use during cooldowns (except for Frostfire Empowerment ofc).

That said, I don’t want to be forced to take their replacement. There are imo 7(8) required talents that should be part of any single target build (and why I love frost mage Single Target):
2 talents for Freezing Winds
3 talents for Splitting Ice, Hailstones and Glacial Spike
2(3) Talents for Thermal Void and Ray of Frost (and Cryopathy).

These talents are so fun to play with, and is the reason I swapped from Fire to Frost main. All of these are pure single target, so I would suggest maybe 2 capstone talents that are AoE focused and 2 that are general.

One idea is build upon thermal void, make each Glacial Spike and Ice Lance increase their own damage each time they are cast inside Icy Veins. This is similar to the current Death’s Chill (frostbolt only). Also make it work with Blizzard and Frozen Orb to make it universal, not just Single Target based.

FROST MAGE - Spellslinger Hero Talent

I don’t think it’s very fun on Single Target. It clashes with the general frost mage rotation. You get such a crazy uptime of Winter’s Chill, that Flurry often feels wasted as you get Winter’s Chill already by the time it reaches the target. This brings me to the biggest problem imo.

  1. Splinterstorm has a delay on its Winter’s Chill application! This results in a feeling of random procs that are impossible to play around. It’s intuitive to immediately cast Ice Lance or Glacial Spike after activating Icy Veins or Shifting Power, because they both garuantee Splinterstorm. However, because of the delay, you do not get Winter’s Chill until like a second after. What do you press then? Even Glacial Spike with it’s long cast time, barely lines up with the Splinterstorm. It feels so clunky, you know exactly how many splinters you will get at all times yet you can’t play around it in an intuitive way. What if you just ignore it and play normally? This brings me to another big problem.

  2. Flurry feels like a useless spell. I swear almost every time I cast it, it ends up being redundant because of delayed splinterstorm. This is really bad during Icy Veins aswell and after Frozen Orb resets. I don’t want to cast Flurry to get Icicles for Glacial Spike, because more often than not, the Winter’s Chill is already there by the time I cast Glacial Spike anyways, and that flurry just becomes a slightly stronger Frostbolt.

  3. Feast or famine. So you’ve gotten back to back Splinterstorms during Icy Veins, many Frozen Orb resets and near constant Winter’s Chill on the boss. Now you’re getting back to your normal rotation, but actually no, you keep getting the occasional Splinterstorm, which of course lines up with your Frostbolt->Flurry combo, which feels terrible. You consume the 2 stacks of Winter’s Chill so fast, and generate them so fast, that you end up wasting a crazy amount of them, and then suddenly completely running out.

  4. Frozen Orb resets too much on Single Target, especially during cooldowns. Frozen Orb is nice on single target because it gives extra Fingers of Frost, however, back to back Frozen Orbs obviously waste any Fingers of Frost you would get, and it forces you to press it again to put it on CD. It’s not a very fun proc, it’s mostly annoying on Single Target, I don’t want to do my AoE rotation on Single Target.

  5. Endless fountain of resources. I don’t like how I am being showered in procs and resources even in terrible gear. Procs don’t feel good when you’re constantly getting them. Winter’s Chill has becomes something like a maintainance buff rather than a satisfying burst debuff. It also serves to undermine the role of Fingers of Frost, which in most cases is purely a 20% damage bonus to Ice Lance.

I’m sorry but I honestly feel like this Hero Talent is less fun than not having a Hero Talent at all in Single Target. The gameplay is terrible, it feels like you are being punished for playing your basic rotation. The Winter’s Chill interaction with Splinterstorm is very problematic and needs to be looked at.

Now to be fair, the current Dragonflight rotation is extremely fun, so less fun doesn’t mean not fun.

Also must say I do like it in AoE. The Frozen Orb resets and Winter’s Chill → Splinterstorm loop works well during downtimes in between your major AoE buttons.

Suggestions:

  • Make Winter’s Chill stack higher than 2 with Spellslinger selected, allowing Flurry to still perform its role.
  • Make the Winter’s Chill application from Splinterstorm happen instantly after hitting 8 splinters, not delayed like it is now. Then you would be able to cast Ice Lance/Glacial Spike directly after Shifting Power/Icy Veins.
  • Make Spellfrost Teachings optional on Single Target. (Frozen Orb resets)
  • Make Fingers of Frost more impactful when used on Winter’s Chill, for example making it do 100% increased damage instead of 20% from Wintertide.
  • Increase Splinterstorm’s threshold (10 or 12 splinters?) to reduce Winter’s Chill resource generation.

Hello, everyone! I wanted to take this opportunity to share some of my first impressions regarding the mage changes on alpha/beta, primarily focused on Arcane. Most of my own testing has been about the talent tree changes and the quality of gameplay with the respective hero talents as well as how our new tier set fits in this picture.

  • Arcane talent tree: It is no secret many of us are unhappy with the talent node changes that have been made during alpha/beta and I’ll refrain from going into it too much to avoid repeating what others already have brought up, Elia wrote a great piece of feedback regarding the rigidity of the arcane talent tree but I wanted to take this chance to reiterate how awful it feels to have some of our most beloved talents (slipstream, chrono shift, Presence of Mind) basically be locked out of any feasible talent build due to their node positioning and/or directly competing nodes. There is also the issue of a lack of potential cleave talent setups going into The War Within, primarily due to Arcing Cleave being hidden away in the bottom right of the talent tree, where we cannot really go if we are looking to maintain some semblance of a ST/priority profile. P.S give Leydrinker some love, that poor talent suffers in all damage profiles currently and could greatly benefit from increased proc rate.

  • Sunfury: This Hero Talent tree is absolutely gorgeous, kudos to whoever designed the visual effects for our beloved Arlo. I do not personally think there is too much to interact with in this particular hero talent outside of Arcane Orb meteors and cooldown reduction from Glorious Incandessence and the way it helps build upon our “big burn” sequence aka Arcane Surge window, this tree being more passive in that sense is however not necessarily a bad thing. I do have a tiny issue with Memory of A’lar’s “Arcane Soul”, but I’ll get to that a bit further down.

  • Spellslinger: SS’s biggest weakness in my opinion is in its lack of theme, it does not necessarily feel either Frost nor Arcane or anything in between, it certainly does not make it feel like i’m slinging more spells than usual, it is just more shades of pink and purple which us Arcane mages already have in abundance. Overall the gameplay loop of Spellslinger is quite fun and works well in general with the Arcane kit on beta as well as offering a nice alternative more consistent damage profile in comparison to the burstier Sunfury. My main comment regarding Spellslinger, and this might be an unpopular one, but I can’t help but feel that we are getting too many clearcasting procs. Nether Precision is a talent that we have come to play around in order to maximize our throughput, but with the amount of CC procs I’m generating I feel like I have to choose between either wasting Nether Precision stacks or munching Clearcasting procs, neither option being a particular engaging nor interesting one.

  • TWW S1 Tier Set: I’m actually quite surprised by this tier set, in a vacuum it is certainly more interesting and interactive than many of the tier sets for other classes but it suffers from an anti-synergy with a multiple of old and new arcane mechanics. I was quite excited to relive the glory days of big Arcane Barrages with Arcane Harmony, since it is basically our only real Single Target capstone but as it looks now on beta, through my testing, odds are that we will simply either not pick this talent even in single target, or if we do we will flat out ignore it in favor of the 4pc tier set procs, essentially removing the gameplay aspect of this talent altogether. Alternatively, if we do however aim to always reach max stacks of Arcane Harmony we will end up ignoring the 4pc barrage proc instead, this type of recurring lose-lose design is quite sad (and frustrating) to see. The AoE situation regarding the tier set is not much better, due to how Arcane Orb refunds arcane charges and with Orb Barrage being our main AoE talent, this tier set loses significant value outside of bringing 10% extra Barrage damage every now and then, and if you happen to play Spellslinger you’re already throwing more Arcane Orbs than you can count through Orb Barrage and the hero talent Spellfrost Teachings orb resets. This will be my last remark regarding the tier set for now, but it is basically a watered down version of Sunfury’s Arcane Soul, I think it is unfortunate to see that so much of the Arcane kit has come to revolve around Arcane Barrage, especially in regards to how broken up its power is between multiple different special effects (like the tier set) and talent nodes throughout the talent tree.

Apologies for my yapping, regardless I am having a blast with the new mage changes and having a lot of fun playing around with all three specializations. I’m excited to see what future changes you might bring us.

Toodles,

Kav

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Sun King’s Blessing needs to be allowed to continue stacking while having Fury of the Sun King (10’th stack, final buff) ready, much like Phoenix Reborn does.

Otherwise it completely clashes mechanically with Hyperthermia granted by Sunfury at the end of a manual combustion. Just like before while Hyperthermia was allowed to proc at any time ~ it causes us to be unable to hard-cast a Pyroblast to activate skb, or completely denies the point of being in combustion (extended via SKB).

3 Likes

Hi all! Starting this beta cycle I had a few reservations about our hero talents after seeing them on paper, Frostfire for promoting too much Frostfirebolt spamming, Spellslinger for being way too passive and visually non-impactful, and only Sunfury was appealing from the get-go.

So the wall-of-text regarding frost and fire after combat logging a lot on dummies and dungeon testing.

First, Hero talents:

Frostfire

In short: visual and proc clutter and way undertuned.

Excess Fire and Frost procs light up the corresponding ability which is nice… for fire. But the frost triggers are already procs that light up when they should be used (Fingers of Frost-Excess fire, Brain Freeze-Excess frost) this leads to using non-FoF Ice Lance by mistake or the frustration of Flurry still on cd and lighting up asking to be used.

Frostfire Empowerment procs: It would be nice to use them in Flurry combos instead of IL or in Combustion instead of FB or PF, but the travel time/activation is quite funky, inconsistent and slow, but it can be a server and/or latency problem with NA-EU distance.

Visuals: Isothermic Core is quite pleasing, Frostfire Bolt and Frostfire Infusion are nice and unoffensive, Living Bomb and Ice Nova is practically invisible in the mountain of effects and quite underwhelming in effect as well.

Only hero talent node I have a problem with is Elemental Affinity/Flame and Frost as it is quite weak most of the times, it is strong only for frost in M+.

The most passive “forget it is there and enjoy the visuals” hero spec of the three with work needed to be done on the proc ui and tuning needed as it is 15-20% weaker than the other two

For my fear of overemphasizing Frostfire Bolt over other spells it was unfounded fortunately, for frost it is better to skip Ray of Frost in a Frostfire build, but even after taking every frostbolt buffing talent it is weaker than using Glacial Spike by a large margin.

Sunfury

It is great. Enough is said about it.

OK, 1 gripe to have: Gravity Lapse target cap is frustrating on large pulls.

Spellslinger

Oh boy! First it lacks any identifiable theme but worse the visuals are near unnoticeable, I had to respec to arcane to check if the animation I saw on alpha footage was removed or not, as Icicles an Glacial Spike completely overshadows it.

Most of the tree is nice if you can move over that the splinters are near invisible to you and you generate them so quickly that they feel inconsequential by themselves. Unerring Proficiency is nice, a bit more single target focused spell to balance the fully AoE Volatile Magic would be great though. Slippery Slinging/Look Again choice node could be replaced with “Put a talent point here so you can move forward” node, Displacement is not used at all (we’ll come back to it in the talent tree section), Alter Time movement speed can be nice (taking out debuffs, snap pulling) but very niche as blink and normal movement is nearly always enough.

The main culprit in this tree is Splinterstorm. First, we have too many of them: on tests I got 10-12 Splinterstorms per minute which is way too many to be impactful (worsened by happening passively without being able to see it visually most of the time). But the main problem is it giving Winter’s Chill on the target. Winter’s Chill is a debuff we build our combos around, it seemingly randomly appearing on the target makes for wasted Flurry casts, shattered Frostbolts and a lot of frustration. On the other hand, it can be gamed to remove Frostbolt and Flurry from the rotation, on my test when I removed Frostbolt and Flurry from the action bar it took a bit over two minutes that I was without anything to do. The application of Winter’s Chill is another point of frustration as it is delayed by x amount of time, I couldn’t determine it as it was all over the place making it even worse.

Possible fixes: Higher stack threshold for Splinterstorm procs, and removing Winter’s Chill from it, if any procs are needed than add Brain Freeze maybe.

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Second: Talent trees:

Class tree:

I was surprised by the lack of change in the class tree as it is still full of non-consequential very-very low-impact nodes along with highly situational and a few mandatory talents, but I ranted about it enough times, so, about the changes.

Ring of Frost/Ice Nova node – less control in a single build, good change

Dragon’s Breath/Supernova node – better spot, welcome choice for dungeon cc, less cc and dmg, but from range and still a stop

Barrier Diffusion: Low impact, but still one of the better defensive passive nodes.

Time Anomaly/Inspired Intellect – The removal of double lust was a welcome change, but Inspired Intellect is not really inspired, but still a simple choice against the rng extravaganza of Time Anomaly

There are a lot of talents mostly in the capstone level that are way underpowered, way too situational and only taken for pathing and the others not taken at all (e.g. Displacement). I still think it would be best if the three capstones were the three major defensives with the pathing of only being able to take two of them or better yet Time Anomaly choice node in the middle and Mass barrier node on one side and Greater Invis/Cauterize node on the other side with Cold Snap in Greater Invis’s current place, and Ice Cold in Freezing Cold’s place with the pathing for only two, reducing the number of defensives available.

Fire

Great tree, love the different builds, but a few observations.

Living Bomb is way less impactful than the number of talents that modify it. Either visually or mechanically it could use some improvement. Mechanically mostly Lit Fuse acquisition, as it is either feast or famine and usually not available when needed or way to many procs to be used at one time, also the buff is too short, it runs out unused many times, if it procs when Fire Blast charges are pooled for Combustion or when you have a longer unlucky streak not getting Heating up and you don’t want to “waste” the Fireblast charge. 12 sec instead of 10 would go a long way to solve the wasted procs. Also Lit Fuse visual cue would be nice, or it will be a weakaura must have icon.

Heat Shimmer is a great talent but it needs some more visual clarification if it’s available. In a connected issue Improved Scorch stacks should be removed it would be way better without it and giving a flat idk 7% bonus.

Phoenix Flames talents are numerous and a bit too low-impact.

A few talents could be moved to choice nodes as the tree has a bit too many nodes now. 45 points in total, 44/43 would be a bit better to path around

Frost

Frost tree in Dragonflight is in a great place and only a few changes were needed, but the ones we got are not them.

The new 43-point tree is a good amount, but we still have 5 two-pointers of those two are bad and never taken in serious pve content (Snowstorm and Subzero). Splintering Cold is boring and a bit frustrating while playing Glacial Spike as you can never know when you’ll get to 5 icicles to cast your burst and causes the Icicle visuals to bug out constantly. Wintertide is a must have to mitigate the proc munching of FoF, so a two pointer to make losing procs less painful… Deep Shatter is dangerous for noIL frost but thankfully way too weak to be taken.

3 talent points are for pure AoE (Ice Caller, Freezing Rain and Coldest Snap) none have any use in single target. 2 points in Ray of Frost that are single target only.

Frostbite is situational, useful in soloing, low dungeon content and possibly pvp (idk), but useless in raiding and detrimental in high m+

The two new talents we got and Slick ice and Cold Front benefit frostbolt use, but the whole point of frost gameplay is to use frostbolt as little as possible. Spellslinger only 2-3 Frostbolts are cast during the entirety of Icy Veins making Slick Ice and Death’s Chill useless, and even on live it is hard to stack up Slick Ice to 5 in the Icy Veins window. Fractured Frost has no benefit outside of exactly two target cleave – does nothing on single target, we switch to partial AoE rotation for three target limiting the use of Frostbolt even further, Cold Front takes forever to build up: once in a 5 min. Spellslinger test. These are not outrageous for Frostfire as Frostfire Bolt is a bit more impactful but still 7-9 is cast during Icy Veins and three Cold Front build ups in 5 min.

So 4 (6 with Deep Shatter) are only useful (even if some are situationally and marginally) for one hero talent.

This causes a build that doesn’t want to waste point in sub 0,1% Frostbolt nodes to have more points than places to put it in single target.

Suggestion: breaking up at least a few 2 pointers, no need to remove anything, the now unused two pointers could see some use with less cost, and adding a few new 1-pointers even situational ones or generalists in the middle third, like: FoF Ice Lance deals x% extra crit damage (helping with how proc munching feels), or After x seconds of not casting Frostbolt, the next one casts x% quicker (acknowledging that we don’t really want to cast Frostbolt, stealing a bit from the dragonflight fire tree) or the same intent: casting Ice Lance/Flurry provides a stacking buff to Frostbolt damage, or helping with mobility casting something causes the next spell with cast time to be cast while moving, or the DF s2 set bonus with the aoe Flurry burst (not the current GS as it would cause pathing problems)

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ps.: on the Spellslinger Splinterstorm feedback, the Splinter generation is bugged in the presence of other Spellslinger frost mages, so it is impossible to test this in SW or IF right now, I ran all the tests in Darnassus where noone else was present, so I could remove this bug from the results

FROST MAGE - Frostfire Hero Talent
TLDR: Feels amazing, fits perfectly into the Dragonflight rotation, I wouldn’t change a thing.

Read more thoughts

The AoE burst rotation of Comet Storm → Cone of Cold → Comet Storm feels even more satisfying when you also shatter a Meteor (Isothermic Core).

Using the Frostfire Empowered Frostbolt on Winter’s Chill stacks feels surprisingly good. It adds a bit of flavor and it makes the ability feel good to press, a better Ice Lance that generates resources.

The Brain Freeze generation from Living Bomb (Excess Fire) is very satisfying and easy to play around.

Overall the resource generation and procs are in a good spot, not too much.

Using empowered Flurry on 3/4 target cleave with Glacial Spike feels great (Excess Frost). In Dragonflight you would often want to Flurry → Glacial Spike → Ice Nova to garuantee 2 shattered Glacial Spikes. This talent just bakes it all into one, feels great.
Excess Frost can also be used to shatter Comet Storm, so we don’t have to use Frost Nova (melee range, no damage).

In AoE, the Frostfire Empowered Frostbolt and Living Bomb empowered Ice Lance really make the downtime feel better in between Frozen Orb/Blizzard/Comet Storm casts.

ARCANE MAGE Feedback.

I will focus on the main issues I see with Arcane which could potentially be corrected in the timeframe remaining before release.

Clearcasting proc rate
This is just to low and feels frustrating. The whole arcane mage talent tree and sunfury revolves around this proc rate.

Abilities relating to the clearcasting proc.
Slipstream - Mobility
Concentrated Power
Nether Precision
Improved Arcane Missles
Eureka
Illuminated thoughts
Arcane Debilitation
Aether Attunement
Arcane Harmony

Through proxy
Time Loop
Leysight
Leydrinker

Sunfury
Spellfire Spheres
Burden of Power
Glorious Incandscence by proxy
Mana Addiction

Suggestion
Increase the proc rate and balance accordingly. It affects far to much of the game play to be 10% chance. This could be doubled and would start to feel good. I would sooner this and numbers reduced to balance.

Mobility
Clearcasting procs are low.
Presence of mind is not going to compete in its current location.

These together have made Arcane less mobile. More and more encounters are movement heavy and require rdps to do mechanics. We should be moving towards more mobility.

Solution
Make presence of mind baseline for arcane and increase missles proc rate.

Talent Tree Points
We seem to be short on points to the feeling of a completed tree.

solution
make evocation base line
remove siphon storm. This is always mandatory and for only 2 points investment its to high value. Balance accordingly on removal.

This will free up 2 points for use in other talents. It will also remove a clunky ability which was mana regen coupled with a buff. I would sooner have x% increase in intellect talent if it had to remain and at least free 1 point.

4 set
Based on Arcane Barrage which is an AOE or conserve ability. Its in conflict with how the spec burns. Compared to other classes or specs this seems a pretty bad 4 set. I don’t want arcane to be dead after all the great work because of a poor 4 set.

Solution
Be creative, could be anything else like % increase to magi window, missles proc rate increase, can move and cast all spells in arcane surge window and gain x% buff.

1 Like

Just a quick post before I prepare a more substantial feedback.

Spellslinger Frost currently suffers from a major bug where other Mages’ spells will trigger your splinters as long as you have Winter’s Chill on the target. This increases splinter generation by more than a factor of two.

It seems that the splinter nerfs in today’s build did not take this bug into account and Spellslinger Frost will most likely be severely undertuned once this bug is fixed.

edit: Degenhours posted the extended feedback in the NA forums on my behalf, see https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-mages/1870408/167

2 Likes

Arcane mage:

Generally the feeling about the changes is that most of them are good, like eureka, arcane familar getting a new visual, mana gem getting deleted as well as spark, improved prismatic shield being baseline, but there are some questionable changes I cannot fully understand.
Sadly, the questionable things are where they should not be - in arcane’s capstones.

Leydrinker - having 10% chance as a capstone should result in some insane added damage, not something that gets lost in between arcane splinters or lil phoenix magic tricks. Both damage and proc chance are too low at the moment, talent is dead on arrival in this state.

Concentration - it is a bit better than before because CC is not tied to mana spent, but once again, not a fan of having a lidl rule of threes in the capstone area. Not to mention we dont get an information for the factual proc chance - small chance is what exactly? For sure not something we want in the capstone area.

Charged Orb - its a nice thing to have in general, not a nice thing to have as the capstone. It needs a buff, something like increased chance to proc Orb Barrage with it, then swapping places with Orb Barrage.

Another problem I see in the tree is the amount of dead ends, middle row is way too disconnected from the rest of the tree.
Utility talents are a dps loss and we seem to not have enough talent points to consider them to improve the QoL for arcane. DF arcane seems way better in this aspect.

Getting rid of 2-point talents would loosen up the choices we could get, but also we got arcane barrage baseline after DF rework, so it would be nice to get rid of talents like mana adept and arcing cleave and make them baseline as well.
Slipstream should also be baseline or have its components tied to talents it is buffing - evocation channeled while moving tied to siphon storm, missiles while moving to improved arcane missiles or other missiles related talent.

I have been playing on the target dummies with different Arcane builds for a while. Here are some first impressions:

The spec tree

The spec tree has potential to make the spec really fun (e.g. I love aoe missiles insta stacking harmony), the spec will very likely be more beginner friendly than in Dragonflight, but the layout is incredibly frustrating.

The most egregious issues are that quality of life talents like slipstream, chrono shift, mana adept and presence of mind are very hard to impossible to pick because they compete with raw throughput. All of these talents are fun, but picking them will make characters feel noticeably weaker. That is never a satisfying choice. A more satisfying way to treat these talents would be to put them on a choice node that one is forced to path through to unlock a key spec ability - this is how utility is placed in e.g. the trees for Havoc (Netherwalk vs Desperate Instincts, Deflecting Dance vs Mortal Dance to unlock gate 2), Devastation (Imposing Presence vs Inner Radiance to unlock Dragonrage), or the third row of the Elemental tree, and is the only way it could work with Arcane as well.

Second, the pathing is extremely rigid. Once once spends points in the second row of gate 2 the two sides of the tree become completely separated from each other. By comparison, in the Fire tree one can spend a handful of points and access any capstone they may want.

Third, the updated tree forces players to drop much larger amounts of ST damage than the Dragonflight one, and most of these talents are at the capstone level. In particular, dealing good AoE damage requires Arcane Echo and Orb Barrage, which is gated by Charged Orb. Arcane Echo is just very weak without Nether Tempest triggering it, and Charged Orb is a fun talent that makes the spec feel better, but numerically it’s abysmal and certainly not worth of a capstone. With this tree, it feels like the chance of Arcane seeing play in anything but pure single target is very low, because the builds are too hyper-specialized.

Spellslinger vs Sunfury

I like that the two specs emphasize different parts of the toolkit - Sunfury enables Harmony nicely, Spellslinger is more similar to the Retail AB/AM centric playstyle. Neat. The main problem I have with Spellslinger is with Spellfrost Teachings - in AoE, it feels really fun because it procs often and helps mitigate the inconsistency of Orb Barrage procs. In ST, it does nothing at all, because we just do not cast Arcane Orb often enough, and the damage bonus might as well not exist.

MAJOR Bug report:

  • Pyromaniac is not correctly implemented (still interacting with Hot Streak, instead of just counting as one spent).

  • If the Hyperthermia granted by Sunfury hero talents procs (activates) during a Sun King’s Blessing pyroblast hardcast, the said pyro will fail to activate SKB and will just whiff/launch a dry pyroblast.

  • After exiting a combustion, Mana Addiction stacks (from the Sunfury hero tree) will start acting erratically and expire anywhere between 1-4 seconds, instead of 10 seconds as intended.

  • Fireblast sometimes randomly activates a Living Bomb even if the Lit Fuse buff is not up.

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Please add an option to hide the spellfire spheres for Sunfury, as they are currently very big and prominent, especially while out of combat in the open world.

You also did this in Legion for the Felo’melorn orbs, but only in the 7.1 patch, which clearly a big portion of the mages back then appreciated. It would be great to have this option from the start.

It could be done via an NPC like in Legion, or glyph(s).

My reasoning:

  • With all the visual cues that dungeons and raids now have for mechanics, which can be hard to see at times (e.g. light brown swirly on brown ground), the spheres actually hide some of the area right in front of the character and can make dodging those even more difficult.
  • Many players will track the spheres not by looking at them, but with a WeakAura or other UI element.
  • Many players prefer a transmog that is “simpler” and not flashy/glowy. The always visible spheres very much clash with this.
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Can’t help but feel that the feedback provided in here is blatantly ignored, any chance we could request a blue post where you actually adress some of the feedback and perhaps give us some insight into your design intentions with the arcane spec? It’s hard not to lose hope, but as it stands now I won’t be playing arcane come release.

Codex of the Sunstriders is a dps loss compared to not spending the talent point at all, because the “exceptional spells” are not doing enough damage to warrant losing spellfire spheres.