Feedback: Mythic+ Testing - 13 June - 18 June

Greetings!

The War Within dungeon testing begins on PTR realms this week. The test period will begin Thursday June 13th at 10:00 PDT (13:00 EDT, 19:00 CEST), and end Tuesday June 18th at 10:00 PDT (13:00 EDT, 19:00 CEST). Please note that the test period may be adjusted in the event of technical difficulties.

The following dungeons are available for testing on Mythic and Mythic+ difficulty:

  • The Stonevault
  • The Dawnbreaker
  • Ara-Kara, City of Echoes
  • City of Threads
  • Grim Batol
  • The Necrotic Wake
  • Mists of Tirna Scithe
  • Siege of Boralus

A preview of some changes to returning dungeons:

Siege of Boralus

  • Players of both factions will go through the Alliance version of the dungeon in Mythic and Mythic+
  • Ashvane Spotter’s Sighted Artillery no longer damages enemy creatures.

Necrotic Wake

  • Malfunctioning Goliath
    • Disabled in Mythic and Mythic+
  • Forgotten Hammer
    • Removed
  • Bloody Javelin
    • Initial damage reduced by 90%
    • Now applies a stacking vulnerability to enemies hit.
  • Discarded Shield
    • Is no longer a channeled effect.
    • Players can now use abilities after the shield is activated.
  • Spawning locations for Discarded Shield, Bloody Javelin and Discharged Anima have been updated

Mists of Tirna Scithe

  • Vine gates and check point can now be used by Tauren, Highmountain Tauren, Night Elf, Druids and Herbalist

Affixes will rotate daily on beta realms to expedite their testing:

  • Reckless - Non-boss enemies without mana ignore 20% armor with their attacks, but their armor is reduced by 30% and they take 10% increased Arcane damage.
  • Thorned - Non-boss enemies without mana inflict Physical damage to their attackers when attacked, but take 10% increased Holy and Shadow damage.
  • Attuned - Non-boss enemies with mana inflict 20% increased magic damage, but take 10% increased Nature damage and 30% increased damage from Bleed effects.
  • Focused - Non-boss enemies with mana have 30% increased Haste, but take 10% increased Frost and Fire damage.

During the test period you’ll be able to acquire and customize the level and dungeon of Mythic Keystones by talking to the Keystone Vendor in Stormwind or Orgrimmar, and the nearby Dungeon Teleports NPC will assist you with transportation. We look forward to hearing your feedback!

2 Likes

I know this is feedback from before testing, but I see two very large problems with the new affixes.

The first is, Chaos magic damage. As chaos is counted as all elements, demon hunters will simply be meta for the extra damage they will deal. It’s going to enforce the meta unless they do negative dps, and this will either need to be taken into account to M+ Tuning of DH damage, or will lead to a repeat of the DH meta.

Second, while reckless encourages Melee DPS, Thorned (depending on tuning) will heavily restrict them. Either it will be a non-affix, or will greatly impede melee dps getting into high keys on these weeks, in which case melee dps players may as well not play as it will lead to frustration, resentment and anger at blizzard and the wow community.

Feedback alone is great but I also have a suggestion for a future affix. Mobs have a chance to carry magic orbs, making them stronger. When these targets are killed, they drop an orb (fire, arcane or frost). If a player picks this up, they gain x crit / mastery / haste, but have a dot on them for as long as they carry the orb. This will give healers something to heal (instead of the dps meta that currently exists), but provide a good reason to target these mobs, and even a good kiss / curse effect (something the community has been very vocal about).

8 Likes

I think it is more than clear in already posted feedback, from what I can see from the announcement post itself, but:

The new affxies negatives? I am fine with testing it out and see how it works. I can already forsee issues with Reckless for tanks and Thorned for melee (and tanks to a certain capacity). Attuned on Fortified weeks will absolutely deck DPS and Healers alike. Focused might be okay? This remains to be tested.

The positives: I can see one thing happening already right now and onwards during beta testing: People will cherry pick players on a Spec level basis. Or simply stack Demon Hunters.

I appreciate the work that has gone in, to fulfill the Kiss/Curse philosophy in the affixes. But increasing specific damage types for each week is simply not the direction to go with. We are already suffering from cherry picking classes based on utility it brings (which is to a certain degree being adressed with reworks, and love seeing it), but this will once again turn right back to players being excluded actively.

I would suggest something else in the kiss/curse formula to be, as a example made on the fly with little thought, “when the affix affected mob dies, they restore 1% resources to players and 0.5% mana within X yards radius”. Or something that is a non-class specific / non-role specific / non-damage type specific positive in affixes.

I can already say now: everyone is seeing the writings on the wall regarding this and it will outright exclude a very large portion of people each week from doing Mythic+ content. Simply based on that their current main damage type, is not included in that weekly cycle.

2 Likes

So i always come back to play this game then i stay hours to join a key but its difficult because im not playing a meta spec so i get bored and quit playing because im not getting invited , so i think this is a nice approach but if we Randomize the New Affix for each key holder, so every key holder would be looking for different specs this way everyone will be getting invites easily no matter the week .

1 Like

I understand what you’re going for with the new affixes, but really, really need to look at the implementation. As it stands all this is going to do result in the creation of new metas, Chaos damage and DHs are as it stands going to be go to. And don’t pretend you don’t know your own player base. It doesn’t matter that you don’t need the MDI meta comp for a +2, players are going to run it, and spending a week being rejected because you’re not specced arcane is going to be bad.

Also, fundamentally these are a variant of Fortified, causing trash to hit harder, which has the potential to create very nasty overlaps. For instance, take RLP and how certain caster mobs would hit like trucks at higher keys on Fortified. Now let’s throw an extra 20% damage buff on those. Or 30% haste. Current affixes such as Afflicted do not have this penalty. While it reduces group DPS/healing output to deal with the affix, it’s not immediately chucking even more trash DPS at things.

Personally, I think the kiss-curse mechanic is generally silly, and one of the examples of the community not understanding you do not get anything for free, because the difficulty curve is already set; if you had an Affix that increased DPS by 10%, enemies are going to get a 10%+ health increase to offset that.

S3 Shadowlands did have kiss/curse, but this also directly enabled new gameplay such as much larger pulls, or specific skips.

While I’m here, I’m also going to mention that you really need to sort the negative interaction between Frost Mage and Sanguine, which is the most punishing interaction out there. This has been a problem for YEARS. Make it so mobs buffed by Sanguine (or are about to have one dropped on them) are immune to Snares/Roots and you immediately solve the problem for any interaction. As it stands, Sanguine is one of those weeks it’s barely worth playing as Frost Mage. No other affix actively punishes a specific spec like this. Afflicted doesn’t make it so Holy Priests do 25% less healing. Incorporeal doesn’t make it so Rogues drop their weapons for 10 seconds every 30 sec. This at least used to be slightly balanced by Necrotic/Spiteful, but “Frost Mage week” got removed.

It feels like there’s been alot of time to rework/ come up with new affix’s and this just seems mediocre at best. But also does not address the fact that players are simply going to be refused in pugs because it isn’t their week. Pugging is hard enough as it is.

Seems like you could have played on the void / old gods/ expansion theme to come up with something different.

E.gs
-random player gives in to the evil w’s gain % damage but you take % more (instead of it being assigned to a specific class/ element)

-tentacles randomly spawn, that could slam ground / grab players

-certain “mobs with mana” if you really want to do that could spawn void balls on death if you get hit you get stunned.

-void patches could spawn randomly if you stand in them you take damage, if you cheese it with an immune and stay too long you spawn a void ele. (You kept sanguine so its not like you don’t like killing us with stuff on the ground)

-with the new earthen race coming in, you could have done something like, random player harnesses the power of the earth increase % damage, take % less damage

So many things could be done, that doesn’t exclude players every single week. It just shows Blizz really have no idea what to do with m+ affix’s and how to develop that aspect

2 Likes

Hi Blizzard,

Could you please post the reasons for these new affixes such as “Developer notes”?

As a player, I would like to know why these new affixes are needed so that people can understand what the dev team is trying to do. Then, we can give more meaningful feedback.

Thanks

4 Likes

y’all smoking some crack fr fr… yall on that 0iq

There’s something I don’t get. You have people on your team who are playing WoW. How could any person who plays the game have said: “Yep those affixes are a good idea.” How didn’t you see what the reaction to those affixes would be? Or don’t you play the game anymore? Also, why did you keep the affixes almost no one likes? Like why do we still have to deal with sanguine and bursting? But as I saw the other affixes you want to implement, I clearly see that you lack ideas on what to implement to punish (don’t know why this is needed at all) and reward the players. As others already pointed out, those affixes will end up people stop playing their class(es) for weeks or stop them from playing at all. This all sounds very much frustrating the way it currently is.

4 Likes

I think I can understand the reasoning behind these new affixes, but this is not how you’ll achieve it.

If I may be a bit critical towards you Blizzard, what you have done here is an example of “we have the data, we think we understand the data, but we refuse to understand players”. You are trying to fix a complex problem without taking into consideration the human element. And your refusal/stubbornness to better take feedback from players is just going to cause to headaches and problems in the near future.

You want to increase comp diversity by forcing groups to cherry pick classes that match the current affix damage school is just going to force more cherry picking, cause more frustration for players, more negative feedback and so on.

As for the first testing round, I hope you’ll try to better understand the internal data you’ll have. I am willing to bet that the majority of keys tested will have a new affix and a group that matches the increase damage school. Very few tests will be made with no players matching damage school of the affix.

This is a good start, we want new affixes, but we don’t want to be forced to play multiple toons just to get a spot in a group on week X with affix Y.

2 Likes

First feedback after testing ‘’ Attuned ‘’ affix and fortunately we have fortified affix on top of it so we can give proper feedback.
This one is tricky because positive part does really effect a very few niche specs but the negative part is ultra punishing. In old dungeons this wasnt a huge problem but new ones holy hell. 1 pack of 3 containing 3 casters , literally make me question who came up with the level design of dungeons.

First of all , every war within dungeons are overtuned to the limits. Too many casters , with combination of the magic damage affix they hurt a lot. Either warrior is ultra dated or there isnt really a way to deal with that many casters. I felt completely useless contributing to the mob control. Missed casts ( which there are a lot ) chunking dps / healer and sometimes just killing them.

Outside of the affix problem , war within dungeons needs redesigning asap. Casters chunking hp and also having secondary group fear ish cast. Most mobs cleave or explode when they die makes melee hate their existance.

I really do hope we arent writing these for nothing. Ty for allowing us to test

4 Likes

Hi there,

This post will be my initial feedback after a couple of hours of play. So it wont be as extensive as it should be. After all, I have only done keys with the Attuned affix so far. Therefore, I have no comparison to the base key tuning yet and what the overall impact of the affix will be (I will try to quantify this, but I am sure you have better tools for it than I do).

Instead, I wanted to give feedback on dungeon design and philosophy. After doing some dungeons it became clear to me that the trend increasingly more casts and higher mechanical intensity is set to continue in S1 TWW. This is fine in a small amount to create a challenging environment for players, but I think it is getting out of control. M+ has become more stressful lately to achieve a similar level of play making it less fun for me overall. Though, I am not sure how widespread that opinion is. Due to this, there seems to be a greater emphasis on pulling pack by pack for greater survival, instead of doing a more interesting combination of packs or bigger pulls. A good example of this is the newly added mechanic of the packs in the last part of Mists of Tirna Scithe. This ability increases all damage you take by those mobs, making the large pulls you did there in Shadowlands nearly impossible. Maybe if this was a new dungeon it wouldn’t feel as bad, but since a lot of us know how it was in Shadowlands it does feel terrible.

For me, M+ is more fun when I have to care about timing the key by optimising a route for dps and not worrying about one shots or near one shots of a single pack. For this, I would suggest to reduce the mechanical clutter and the high burst damage going out. A good first step could be to let the hp of mobs scale higher than the damage they deal. This also prevents keys going into one shot territory, which allows the healers to have a bit more room to breath and for tuning down of the healers so the hp movement is less volatile. Cata classic made me painfully aware how bad of a state healing is in retail.
Secondly I would suggest to reconsider the amount of high priority mechanics and required kicks for a single pack that limits the pull to said pack. Handling a one or two in a pack 5 mobs is fine, but handling 5 casts/mechanics in pack of 5 is a bit too much.

Sorry for this long post and the sometimes incoherent lines, I am writing this in the middle of the night. However, I hope I was able to get my point across. Thanks for letting us test the dungeons and for continuing to develop this game. I know I came across as negative in this post, but there are many things you devs are doing really well.

(PS I will update the post when I got a better feel on the new affix)

1 Like

Just did a Stonevault m0 as a resto druid

Trash
Not really anything to say. Felt ok for me but i need to see that in higher keys

EDNA
Feels like a little wall. The DoT hits really hard an you can’t really go more than 2 stacks without puking your lungs. Sometimes i felt so far behind at healing because of some harder cleaning that we just died with nothing i could do.
We had to cheese the boss with an amz, lust and burning all we had to do a first mega clear so we could dps properly the boss afterwards.
Definitly need some tuning down (not that much but still)

Skarmorak
Damn that boss feels well balanced. Really nothing to say

Forge Speakers
WELL SO MUCH TO SAY.
First , the Orb animation is WAY TOO ODD. There’s a little lag between the charging and the launching animations and during that lag, the boss keeps tracking his target. So if you’re mooving a little bit during the animation the orbs goes on another path. It’s kinda problematic since we have to clear a little the room, and many times we are caught off and just randomly die of the orb.
Secondly, there’s some nasty overlap such as having to kick the boss while the kart is exploding. If you don’t have a distant kick you are screwed.
Besides that the fight feels fun.

HighSpeaker
The fight feels it could be fun BUT, the portal are spawning all over the places. And since you have to use them to clear the dot, everyone wants to clear his dot but have to put your puddle in a decent place so the room isn’t filled, the fights become a running fest.
There’s something that should be done about these portals spawn. (spawn on the tank ? on a player, make them close one to each others ?)

Still some work to do, there’s really some good idea, a bit of tuning and it’s gonna be dope

Just attempted a Stonevault on M+3 and failed hard. Mechanics on E.D.N.A. didn’t seem to line up timings wise properly according to Journal suggestions.

1 Like

So I have done a few dungeons so far, most dungeons feels overtuned. I finished a few keys in time, but most of the time the keys were unsuccesful due to people giving up early, some boss mechanics are simply overtuned to the heavens or bugs preventing the group from moving onwards.

Siege of Boralus

First and foremost, It feels overtuned and multiple mobs activates by themselves for no reason. I had multiple times when a pack across the room activated, without being attacked, or initiated in any way and simple decided to jump into the fray. We were nowhere close to them to activate them.

On the first boss: There is a pack of mobs just outside the barrier, where you exit after killing the first boss. This pack activates itself randomly and snaps inside into the boss room during the boss encounter, adding more adds on top of the current boss encounter.

The cannon barrage on the second boss: It is a full stop one shot, even on a +2 difficulty. Even a shred of a pixel of your toe in the cannon barrage and you are obliterated. Even as a tank.

Grim Batol
So the first boss in terms of mechanics are easy enough to understand and handle. BUT, if you manage to wipe on the encounter, the Ruby Guardian will keep the fight going, even if everyone are dead.
This locks everyone in the encounter and no one can release spirit, or reset. Even leaving the group or exiting the game, keeps the encounter going. You essentially lock the character in limbo and are unable to progress. This unfortunately happen to me.

Mists of Tirna Scithe
Only managed to make it the fairy boss. Due to team members not doing mechanics correctly and decided to give up early. But in terms of tuning, there is a handful of mobs being overtuned. The rest seems fairly balanced and okay. The goliaths being one example of being a bit overtuned.

Stonevault
I am utterly convinced that blizzard simple do not want people to play Healers this expansion, with E.D.N.A being a prime example.
The healer has to do the following: keeping everyone alive when the nasty dot builds up from breaking stone spikes. Keep an eye on the tanks debuff and sync a dispell JUST as the tank buster is about to go off, in order to save the tank. When the large slam goes off, that destroys remaining spikes: It can easily lead to a wipe due to the amount of damage is going out.

In other words, I barely made it through the door in a +3 and +2 attempt, it is far too overtuned.

On a succesful run in Stonevault: The last boss is good, BUT there is an insane amount of puddles to navigate through. I would give feedback on letting the puddles decay slowly over time. Just to make navigating the puddles a bit easier.

Necrotic Wake

So in general Necrotic Wake feels just fine for me. But after killing the second boss, the kyrians that are supposte to taxi you up to the necropolis: lands WAY up in the air, making it impossible to progress through the rest of the dungeon.

The Dawnbreaker
So the dungeon in general is and feels fine. But I want to give feedback on that there is FAR too much trash in the town area, making it rough to kill the lieutenants around the area. Mostly cause their attacks are HUGE in the way of AoE. So you almost got to over % just to make sure you got enough space to kill them properly. Same with taking on the second boss in general.

Ara-Kara, City of Echoes
This dungeon feels fine in general, I only have feedback concerning the last boss. So when the boss performs the big void pull in, it feels unclear that you need to intentionally root yourself in order to survive. As well as it being difficult to find the small mobs carrying the orbs in time, just to get rooted. I would prefer it if there was an easier way to intentionally get rooted, to avoid the final strong draw in, on the void explosion.

I hope I will be able to do more testing, to gather more knowledge and deliver more feedback over these coming days.

When i The Necrotic Wake, there were only 4 transports to the upper necropolis after the 2nd boss is killed. We tried to all die and spawn the one that takes you up if you die after getting to 3d boss. But they were just frozen in mid air, you could still see them tho.

Feedback on the Dawnbreaker dungeon.

I will try to keep my feedback as fair as possible but let it be no secret that so far I only had terrible experiences in this dungeon. We are all new to these dungeons but unlike all the others in the pool no group seems to understand how to work this dungeon, trash and bosses included. In the other new dungeons you have a sense of discovery, things are intuitive, you recognise know dungeon patterns, understand mechanics straight away, the layout speaks for itself and so on, Not in the Dawnbreaker tho, and I think this lack of understanding speaks for itself. There are too many gimmicks, and they are not well communicated. The dungeon is trying to break too many rules, for me feels too over designed, like an experiment to see how far you can push the format before it breaks.

Air ship + Shadowcrown

There are many critical bugs on the ship itself, ranging from patching issues, ground targeting, there is some weird wind blowing sometimes making pets and visual effects just fly off the ship. I have seen warrior tanks charge and get teleported to the lower deck, my SEF clones and Xuen a lot of times just fly away.

Once we enter the ship we are basically doing 3 packs and a boss, having to dragonride and wait for everyone to land, if they even manage to land without pulling the packs accidentally. All this travel and rp feels very forced and unnecessary. This part does not feel like I am doing a mythic plus key.

Shadowcrown has some very bad overlaps with uninterruptible casts right before the Obsidian beam, making moving her into a clear space so people can DPS impossible. It is incredibly frustrating to tank this boss without a ranged kick, most of the time I am just standing in range yelling at my screen for someone to interrupt so I can move the boss. The visual and the actual part where the beam does damage seems to be misaligned at the start of Obsidian beam, standing right on the edge of the melee hitbox helps but this still needs fixing imo. Darkness comes is fun for the 1st time while you are doing normal and heroic through levelling for the theme park feel, but honestly mechanics like this has no place in M+ I have joined a key because I want to fight things not because I wanted to ride my mount.

City area + Anub’ikkaj

The number one biggest crime is the patrolling boss. If you accidentally pull the boss while fighting some trash and wipe the boss will just respawn right there in about 30 seconds. Just enough time for you to run back and start fighting the same miniboss again and have the boss pop out of nowhere and wipe you again.

This whole city area is very densely packed with enemies, a lot of trash mechanics force movement that lead to pulling extra things accidentally. Not a single time have I felt good about fighting anything down there, way too many casters that seems to just cast one ability over and over, even if you only pull a handful of mobs it is just a visual overload on my screen. Speaking of visual overload, are those enemies that fight friendly NPCs necessary? It just adds extra visual noise in the form of nameplates to what’s already on our screens. I know you probably don’t have time or even an intention to make big changes to this part of the dungeon but I wish this open area was ground mounts only, obviously smaller in size, but left nice and open for groups to figure out pathing with the optional minibosses. Being able to fly, being able to land anywhere skip anything you like removes a lot of strategic decision making, timing, also seemingly forces you to stuff the place tightly with enemies to pose some form of a challenge that feels very artificial.

The boss itself has not much to it if you manage to find the right place to engage the fight. The dark orb seems to collide with a lot of random things on the ground, it is not very consistent and I bet with enough experimenting people will find a ton of cheese spots to ignore it all together.

Rasha’nan

I find this boss criminal, for me it just has all things I knew I disliked and It also managed to show me new ones. To start with we are on the ship again, that comes with all the bugs I mentioned before. This is a 100% to 60%(?) fight with a very large health pool, most of the heavy lifting is done by the bombs, fight like these always makes my own dmg contribution feel pointless. Ok whatever lets run around collect some bombs, dodge the mechanics fine. The boss somehow always phases in a way that we end up having a bomb we cant get rid of and end up leaving a dot on us right before the skyriding part, not sure if this is intended, or we should let one go off early in the fight.

The path the small ship takes you meant to follow while skyriding is very jarring, popping in and out of existence, accelerating with speeds I can’t even follow.

Fighting Rasha’nan as a melee in the final phase is frustrating to say the least, the area you can hit the boss from feels very small, if anyone drops webs in there, there is pretty much nowhere to stand. The mechanics seem a bit too frequent forcing us to move away from the boss, I can only get a few hits in before im targeted by another ability. The webs we leave behind are too big and the slow is a bit much too It should be one of these not both.

1 Like

The Dawnbreaker
Pros: All 3 bosses have very cool mechanics and keeps you focused throuout the whole duration of the boss fights.

I like the story,idea and the goal of this dungeon, which it does well to show the players.

Personal>With propper tunning and some visual changes. This could be my fav dung next to The Stonevault

Cons: The [Throw Arathi Bomb] on the last boss was abit difficult to locate these bombs , i would suggest adding additional indicators on the bombs so they are easier to see. I know you do get a message saying what to do on ur screen, but locating a bomb on the ship was not that easy, maybe putting bigger, easier to see indicators or arrows on them will help.

Overall feedback on the testing: scaling us down to 580 was a very-very bad idea on +4 many abilities just one-shot people and several runs we had to abandon aswe just couldn’t live through the encounters. 590 would be better as noone in their right mind goes to a +4 in heroic dungeon gear. And to test the new affixes you have to run +4s
On the new affixes they are unobtrusive, the only rough spot so far was Attuned+ Fortified. The damage bonus part could use another pass, as it stands now, it opens up a full expansion of DHs all over the dungeon meta, however the goal is worthwhile, the implementation is not there yet.

Grim Batol
1st boss. Dragon breaths have a ton of problems, damage event and the graphical representation, cast time is inconsistent, several times was I killed in a lane where the dragon was still chilling visually still precasting the breath. The double damage event of the circles and the breath is very nasty, but the main problem is the knockback from the circle as we had several deaths from players standing in the right lane and their circle exploding pushing them in front of a dragon.

Dawnbreaker
Love the idea but the implementation could use some work here as well.
The airship has several pathing issues with pets stoppping dead, movement abilities doing nothing and so on.
1st boss. Void zone beam timing could use a few extra seconds as the boss is very difficult to move and if it starts the beams inside the void zones it makes surviving the effect very hard
2nd boss: stop the patrolling.
3rd boss: pathing issues on the airship, and something doesn’t click with the barrels, the boss leaves the platform after the 1st barrel explodes from the second batch, leaving 1-2 to explode in our face, If we stay for the healer to heal us up, the small ariship leaves and we die to the darkness, if we go after the boss we die in the DoT. We only managed to do it by throwing all three from the second batch simultaniously.

Stonevault
We couldn’t get through the first boss on tyrannical, as we just didn’t have enough hp to live through some overlaps, but still managed to hunt down some bugs. We managed to pull the trash from behind the closed doors with a hunter pet, it would be good to fix that, as I can see some degenerate timing shenanigans with pulling those before or with the boss.

Siege of Boralus
Fire bomber’s Fire Bomb on Fortified is a bit ridiculous but with enough coordination it can be done. The knockback on the last boss could be tuned back a bit as it was way to annoying