Feedback: Paladins

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Paladins in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team

Holy Paladin Beta Feedback

With the launch of the The War Within Beta, Holy Paladin is still in a state where it is hard to really understand or make sense of what the vision behind the spec is supposed to be. There are many strange contradictions that make everything feel inconsistent, incoherent, and unintuitive.

  • We are a combo point spec, but only really cast our combo point spenders to proc Awakening and because they are pretty cheap mana wise, and not because they are always our strongest spells.

  • We are supposed to cast Holy Shock on cooldown, especially with the new tier that grants CDR, and because it is the driving force behind the whole spec, but doing that simply makes you run out of mana.

  • We are casters, but supposed to stand in melee range to be able to deal damage and to maximise our Mastery value, and because we get classified as melee from a boss mechanic perspective.

  • We are spot healers, but have only one spell that actually heals enough to be a good spot heal in Holy Light, which instead has such a long cast time that people will often already be dead or topped before we get the cast off.

  • Avenging Crusader still exists largely in a vacuum that doesn’t really interact with large portions of our spec, and makes no sense when Holy Light just does more healing than Crusader Strike or Judgment do in Avenging Crusader.

Beyond these contradictions, we suffer from abysmal levels of bloat. The whole spec consists of many spells and cooldowns, most of which are fun and interesting in a vacuum. However, we have so many of them now that most of them do not truly feel like cooldowns, and it has forced our rotational spells to be nerfed to the point that it feels incredibly unsatisfying whenever we do not have a cooldown to cast.

So we are now at a point where our cooldowns don’t feel like cooldowns, and our base spells heal so little that you are often left wondering if you even targeted the player you thought you did.

Cooldown Bloat

To really illustrate how bad the cooldown bloat has gotten, we need to compare it to a previous expansion, so let us compare it to the latter half of Battle for Azeroth.

The list of cooldowns we had back then is short.

  1. Avenging Wrath

  2. Holy Avenger

These two cooldowns only enhanced your base spells and simply made your existing rotation more fun, fast paced, and strong. Avenging Wrath was twice as strong back then and also reduced Holy Shocks cooldown by 50%, and Holy Avenger granted 30% Holy Shock healing and 30% haste. They didn’t just exist in a vacuum and didn’t just trickle out healing on their own. Back in BFA, Holy Shock was the end-all and be-all. Everything we did was with the aim of simply getting more Holy Shocks out, and our cooldowns only helped further this and that made them feel great.

Let’s compare this to The War Within.

  1. Avenging Wrath

  2. Divine Toll

  3. Daybreak

  4. Tyr’s Deliverance

  5. Hand of Divinity

While these cooldowns do synergize with each other like, Divine Toll with Daybreak, and Tyr’s Deliverance with Hand of Divinity, they don’t really enhance your base rotation, nor make it feel stronger, nor faster in the way that BFA cooldowns did.

Most of the power of these cooldowns comes from healing that just happens by you pressing them.

Divine Toll and Daybreak are essentially just one hit wonders. Sure, Daybreak makes your next 3 Holy Shock cast 3 additional times, but with how weak Holy Shocks direct healing is, even 3 Holy Shocks often cannot top a player.

Tyr’s Deliverance just does its own thing over a minute, and the healing buff it grants is rarely something you base your target selection around other than to make sure you fully extend it. Vast majority of its power comes from the actual trickle healing of which we have no control over.

Before The War Within, Avenging Wrath has still just buffed your base healing and made your base rotation feel better and stronger. But, with both Lightsmith and Herald of the Sun, Avenging Wrath has had healing effects added to it. This means that Avenging Wrath is being turned into a cooldown that also doesn’t just enhance your base rotation.

These effects are currently incredibly strong and force us into Awakening in any and all scenarios.

Base Bloat

Our cooldowns are not the only things that suffer from bloat. Our whole rotation has continuously had more and more spells added to it, to the point that the gameplay has become less than the sum of its parts.

As mentioned, back in BFA, Holy Shock was the end-all and be-all. Holy Shock had only 1 charge which added an interesting skill differentiator in making optimal use of Crusaders Might’s cooldown reduction, and practically all our healing came from pressing Holy Shock.

Today, Holy Shock is only a spell that is cast to facilitate other aspects of our spec, be it Infusion Procs, Glimmer of Light, or to grant us Holy Power. The spell it self does vanishingly little healing, and is extremely inefficient from a mana perspective.

Our rotational healing comes from a myriad of effects and spells that depend on a horde of modifiers to be effective.

Our Holy Power spenders need insane effects that buff them by up to 60% like Blessing of Dawn, and the new Tier Set which buffs them by up to an additional 32% to really feel like true combo point finishers. On top of that they also have a random chance to proc Glimmer of Light and other random effects from either Hero Talent.

Holy Light and Flash of Light are only realistically castable with an Infusion proc, which buffs Holy Light by an obscene amount, and makes us dependant on getting Holy Shock crits, which will likely be in short supply with low ilvl at the start of the The War Within.

I like the idea of turning Holy Light in to a big mana spender that also slaps healing. Holy Paladin have been lacking a real spell that cost a lot of mana and did a lot of healing in return for a long time. I am glad we are getting that. Even with its long cast time it feels incredibly satisfying to cast, but to truly facilitate this change, you have to reduce our mana expenditure in other parts of our kit. As we are already going OOM just from casting Holy Shock on cooldown we will very rarely have mana left for Holy Light.

Conclusion

I am not advocating for a return to BFA. BFA had its own issues such as ignoring Infusion of Light procs and rng wings uptime. But I think it is a great illustration of how messy and bloated the spec has become since then. I strongly believe that the largest problem for this spec, and for the game in general, is the insane and unnecessary overcomplication, and incessant addition of new effects and mechanics that combat and classes have gotten since the start of Shadowlands, especially with the talent tree revamp in Dragonflight. I fear that the addition of Hero Talents without the removal of any other effects is only going to further this issue.

For Holy Paladin in particular, it would be an unmitigated disaster if no effects were removed. If none are outright removed, then at the very least we need changes to our talent tree so we cannot pick all those effects and cooldowns at once. Less is more. The spec needs to be simplified, and the spec would immediately be better if things like Tyr’s Deliverance was straight up removed.

We need to have the weeds removed so the rest of the garden can flourish.

Edit: Post-word

I want to add that it is very very clear that feedback is being heard and acted upon, which is why I keep making these long posts! I really appreciate that, and I apologize if I come across as antagonistic, I have the utmost respect for the people working on these specs, and I realise it is a thankless job. My intention and desire purely to help make this spec the most fun it can be for everyone.
Thank you for listening to the feedback <3

19 Likes

Protection Paladin Talent Feedback
For the longest time Consecration has been an essential part of the Protection Paladin. I can understand why sometimes quality of life should be baked into a talent to let people decide if they want it or not. I can’t understand the new talent “Sanctuary” tho.
Its effect is everything a lot of people wanted, but why does it need to be a Talent? The position makes it a mandatory Point to spend, its effect makes it a mandatory point to specc.
Bake it into the general mastery itself, maybe let it even scale with mastery to increase the time you get protection out of your consecration.

2 Likes

Protection Paladin Beta Feedback
With the start of the war within beta, Protection Paladin is still at a point where it cannot be a powerful and fan choice to do high content, protection paladin is considered one of the most attractive tanks in this game, but it has always had weaknesses that caused its failure.

The basic root of these problems goes back to our Mastery: Divine Bulwark which in order to survive in the first place, we need to stand in our Consecration.
This causes us to face major problems in fights that require rapid or consecutive movements (For example, you can consider Amirdrassil bosses as well as the Sanguine affix in M+)
I request you to rework our Mastery and not connect it to consecration, I believe that many and maybe all paladin tanks agree with my opinion.

In the following, I would like to mention several spells and talents that I believe their modification will greatly help this spec to become more fun to play.

GENERAL:
Please remove the holy power cost from our Combat Ress ability!
giving 3 holy powers in a hard situation to CR a dead dps or healer is not good.


SPEC TREE:

  1. Avenger’s Shield should generate holy power for us again!
    This is the most important thing! It can fix the bug where Divine Toll sometimes generates only 1 Holy Power, and it will also make us tankier in every situation.

2.The mana consumption of Word of Glory is very high, it should either be completely removed or reduced by 90%
The Shining Light talent should also make our next Word of Glory cost no mana, since the hero talent Lightsmith gives us enough Shining Light procs thanks to Laying Down Arms talent and if we consume all of them, we will have mana problem!

  1. Grand Crusader should be baseline and Inspiring Vanguard should take its place, or combine both talents into one and remove the 2% strength from it.

  2. Tyr’s Enforcer should be a 1-point talent.

  3. Reposition Hand of the Protector, it’s a great talent that allows us to continue what we’re known for (off-healing) and solidify our place in Dungeons and Raids.
    It should be replaced with Light of the Titans.

  4. There are some dead talents that need to be removed or reworked:

  • Light of the Titans should be buffed.
  • Tirion’s Devotion is completely a dead talent since we have better cooldown reduction for Lay on Hands thanks to the Laying Down Arms hero talent.
  • Reaching the Seal of Charity talent requires a lot of points, which results in the loss of most of our strong talents.
  • Faith in the Light is not worth it, as it requires spending 2 points and has bad positioning.
  • Uther’s Counsel is another dead talent that requires 2 points; there is no purpose in getting this talent!

CLASS TREE:

  1. Holy Aegis should be a 1-Point talent.
  2. Combine Seasoned Warhorse and Cavalier into one talent.
  3. Punishment should be removed if our Avenger’s Shield generates holy power again.
  4. Remove Lightforged Blessing or Buff it.
  5. Remove Improved Blessing of Protection; it’s completely a dead talent.
  6. Remove or Rework Of Dusk and Dawn, Seal of Order and Fading Light.
  7. Seal of the Crusader should be a 1-point talent.

In the future, I will provide more feedback with additional tests, but I am confident that what I have written reflects the sentiments and requests of most paladin tanks.
thank you for reading and listening to feedbacks <3

3 Likes

I agree but gotta give the lingering consec dr a chance in M+/raid testing. It likely is enough on it’s own to remedy the pain of moving out of consec.

Uther’s counsel is situational but extremely strong when you need lower cd on Blessing of Spellwarding to counter a mechanic in raid with it(mythic). Same with Improved Blessing of Protection as that talent also affects Blessing of Spellwarding. You can either have 5min, 4min, 3.4min or 2.8min Blessing of Spellwarding cooldown with combinations of Improved BoP and uther’s counsel. I’d love Uther’s counsel to become 1point talent for 20% cd from 2points for 30% cd though.

Dusk itself feels very boring and meh but Seal of Order is huge in our rotation with cdr so removing it would nerf flow of the spec significantly.
I do agree with your other points.

What I would also want to see is merging Sentinel with crit wings so we can be tuned around having both instead of having to pick dmg or insane defensive cd.

Feedback on the Protection Paladin with little focus on pvp for solo rated battleground and pve delves

Short version: Feels smooth and okayish. Despite new talents (Templar), the game doesn’t really feel new and refreshing. And we still have too much cooldown micromanagement. Therefore, more safety nets should be built into the class via passive skills so that you can focus on enemies and damage optimization (PVE and PVP).

Templar

  • Since almost everything is aimed at damage, it lacks a bit of control. A slowing effect in movement / attack or armor reduction of the enemies would have been nice.
  • Lights Deliverance with 60 stacks is too high - either reduce the amount or Hammerfall should also work with Avengers Shield or Judgement.

Lightsmith

  • Fear No Evil is a very good pvp talent - this would be nice to see baseline option in Paladin tree
  • Holy Armaments feels like small version of Seraphim - would be nice to see some stats increasement beside the flat holy damage.

New ideas for developers if they want to tinker:

Reflexive Shield
If your health drops below 30%, you can block 360 degrees and your block value doubles for 7 seconds.

Seasoned Warhorse → Nimble Warhorse
Increases the duration of Divine Steed by 2 sec and gains the benefit of Blessing of Freedom for 4 sec.

Holy Protection
When you successfully block a critical hit or critical spelldamage, you reduce the cooldown of Forberance, Divine Shield and Lay of Hands by 1 sec.

Objection
Word of Glory only heals up to a maximum of 80% of your total health, but you gain an additional 50% of the healing as a shield for 15 seconds.

Divine Will
You are immune to spell removal or cleansing effects.

Sanctuary
Consecration’s benefits persits for 4 seconds after you leave it → or the spell has expired and you have been standing in the area.

Explanation of the ideas

  • The talents are somewhat aimed at PVE AND PVP, now that solo rated BGs are being introduced.
  • As a flag bearer in particular, you are often attacked from behind and Reflex Shield could help with a 360-degree blocking ability.
  • Nimble Warhorse is a light buff and a reference to the original Horsie, where you were immune to slows / break those.
  • Objection is a small counter to the self-heal reduction in pvp, so you can breathe a little over shields - Regardless, I would prefer healing to be the focus for holy classes and Prot Paladin like Discipline Priest would be more about shields.
  • I think an immunity against spellsteal with our 1-2 min cooldowns is simply necessary in pvp, we already have 60-70% less healing + damage and receive over 50% more damage than other classes.

Don’t take things too seriously - perhaps you will find one idea quite attractive.

Hail to the light

Holy Paladin Feedback, PVP focused!

I’ve been playing holy paladin for much of dragonflight and a little before that, I just wanted to give my feedback on the spec as it’s developing so far for the war within, and at the moment I’m quite concerned. I like the look of Herald of the Sun from a healing perspective, as it makes some of your buttons more impactful and in general increases your throughput.

Lightsmith on the other hand has a few core issues, for one much of spec revolves around sitting in melee with high uptime like you would in PVE, but in PVP doing such is often a death sentence. If melee wings were a viable build this could be possible, but even then it doesn’t seem to do much in terms of adding value other than 20% damage on your next crusader strike.

To top things off however, the increase in cooldown of Sacrifice from 1min to 1.8 CD is likely just going to outright make the spec unviable, it’s our only way of avoiding casted CC on a class that has very little in terms of mobility. Priests can death & fade CC on a 20 second cd, shamans have kick and ground, druids can shift to avoid poly and other casted cc and evokers have shroud, with half the availability on sac, the entire game is going to be spent sitting on a pillar trying to avoid cc, and it won’t be possible to even consider playing melee wings if you’re just going to get cc’d for the short duration.

Finally the design of holy light being the only efficient heal we have is concerning too, in retail right now we’re the only healer that has to constantly cast, and shifting our only real healing onto an even longer cast will just make things worse. I really want to be excited to play holy pala in The War Within, but as it seems at the moment most of the problems we have now are only going to get worse.

1 Like

Prot paladin feedback.

There’s a single thing that i want that prot pala needs (and all tanks imo). Why are VDH taken over prot pala? Control. In places like priory you have archers just sat at max range you can do nothing about unless you group los. You could solve this for casters by making avengers shield silence each target it hits.

To solve the ranged attacker issue. Something like “Compelled by the Light”. Force specific targets to move toward you. It doesn’t even have to interrupt their abilities if seen as too strong let them continue their attacks but move in, merely help group errant mobs. It could be a holy beacon/flag you drop on yourself and all mobs in combat are compelled to walk toward it. Just more grouping tools for none caster ranged mobs.

The other option is to have blinding light to be switched for this new talent, have it make mobs be compelled to move toward you for say 6 seconds but unable to act otherwise as a form of hard CC.

Is it me or is templar’s damage a bit low compared to other classes in pvp? I have been testing it out and I can’t tickle most dhs and slayer warriors.

Retribution Feedback

Okay, so i have now been playing a bunch of dungeons and tested out different specs for both hero talent trees and here is what i think so far:

Templar:
The spec flows really well, easy to get into and Hammer of Light hits my dopamine receptors. It’s like playing the DF Ret, but you get some free aoe from your Empyrean hammers and Hammer of light.

Running Radient glory + Crusade for ST with ES is really satisfying build up.

Running Templar in AoE is also really nice with Final Reckoning + AV: Might and both Divine arbiter and Searing light is really nice and the 1 min full go is really satisfying and seems to blast.

Now for the things i hope is going to change / feels wierd:

The Hero talent Sacosanct Crusade is a none talent basically. currently it gives my character on beta a 180k shield. this is close to a 3-4% shield of my total hp and most mobs / players removes it in 1 attack.

If you run Divine hammer with templar, it always uses 1 HP and i have not been able to Hammer of light at all, and even if it did work, you would instantly lose Divine hammers when Hammer of light is cast.

Herald of the Sun:

I want to preface that during the first week of testing, this spec was the pinnacle of retribution. Making a dot based version of retribution is interesting and different and it worked wonders. it was doing very well in dungeons and being able to do free OH with dawnlights during ST bossfights and massive AoE during pulls was super satisfying.

Having Hammer of wrath matter with the talent Blessing of An’she is nice and hits like a bulldozer when targets are low hp.

Now, due to the big changes to Herald, my opinions have changed quite a bit:

Running Radient glory was basically required, since it used to proc 4 dawnlights on enemies / allies, but after the changes made today, the entire spec feels so much weaker and the flow is not as satisfying. Before the changes, i could stack up crusade pretty quickly with Radient glory on the Wake of Ashes go. Now with the lack of haste given from Solars grace, since it only applies 1 dawnlight it goes so much slower and compared to the 15% haste you get from casting Hammer of light as Templar, this feels really weak.

Other issues i have encountered:

Not picking Radient glory for ST is really weak and makes the flow of both specs not work at all. The downtime between wings is too long and every other wake feels wasted.

The same issue as in DF is still here with Crusading strike and Templar strikes. there is no point picking templar strikes currently, since your other abilities are still hitting harder and pressing that button can’t compare to the free damage and holy power from Crusading strikes.

Having a Divine Purpose proc and spending it during crusade, does not stack crusade and makes the burst opener for Herald feel super clunky and just weaker. if crusade could benefit from divine purpose, it would smooth out the opener quite a bit more.

That’s my impression after a bunch of 3 and 4 keys, as a paladin tank you’re more dependent on the healer to survive, but the amount of group damage that comes along the way … if it goes live like this, nobody will want to heal anymore. I sometimes don’t have any holy power left to heal myself if I want to keep my righteous shield up. A very, very difficult balancing act ^^

And they’ve cut the Palatank really badly: Bastion of Light no longer gives 3 stacks of freecast for shield righteous, but the next 5 judgments give 2 more holy power. Means if you don’t want to go blank in some pulls, first pull a CD directly or even more often run all charges from the blessed hammer first.

1 Like

You can judgement while running to the pack and insta sotr, judgement with bastion of light active gives you 3 hopo so you can spam judge->sotr. sotr is off gcd so there isn’t a problem there. What’s funny is that during wings and bastion of light you get 4hopo per judgement so you have to press a different hopo gen every 2 judgements to not waste hopo. Also can just start pull with sentinel up and chill

You are right dude, Prot paladin feels very squishy and holding threat is big problem. I struggled hard in Grim Batol +2. The self sustain is tuned very low and defensive cooldowns didnt seem to do anything. Holy Bulwark from Lightsmith was my top heal and that is a tiny 15% hp bubble. Word of Glory dont do a lot. 44 deaths on a +2 key, it was a struggle to say the least

2 Likes

Holy Paladin Feedback:

Having low crit values already feels bad on the live servers. This problem gets even worse in TWW. If you don’t have any infusion you just stand there with absolutely nothing to press that does healing sometimes. Of course you could cast uninfused FoL or HL but both of those will drain you mana super quickly, which is another issue we have right now.

Also Divine Toll is comically weak right now, especially in M+. Consuming 5 glimmers will average to around 1.5 million hp healed. That is one third of one dps HP bar. For a 1 minute CD that requieres setup that is atrocious.

This spec on beta right now is being hard carried by Herald of the Sun. Once Herald gets nerfed, which it probably will, this spec will be in the gutter numbers and gameplay wise.

Please make holy shock a button that does a good amount of healing on it’s on and is not just there to facilitate other abilities. Holy Shock used to be a strong single target instant heal. Now it crits for less than 10% of a health bar.

1 Like

I have 2 issues:

  • The nerfed range of melee attacks feels very unsatisfying
  • There are way too many ways to heal. I’d prefer if you could choose between daybreak/tyr’s and something else. Instead of having all three at once.

Thanks for the changes and great Hero Talents for Paladins! My feedback is specifically for Retri Palas, and will be quite small since I mostly like everything.

However, I do miss the old Vanguard of Justice talent. I really liked for spenders to cost 4 Holy Power for that extra damage, but especially so Retri would feel less spammy. Maybe this can be brought back in some way?

The other choice I don’t really like as much is for Hammer of Light for Templars. After casting Avenging Wrath (or Avenging Wrath with the Radiant Glory Talent), it does feel like an extra button to press that also costs 5 Holy Power. My suggestion would be so that it casts automatically afrer Avenging Wrath/Wake of Ashes, or automatically after your first Divine Storm/Final Verdict.

These 2 changes would make it a little bit less button spammy for me, as I really liked how Retri played in Dragonflight both with the old Vanguard of Justice and Crusading Strikes talent. Not sure if others feel the same, but that’s atleast how it was for me. Visually and thematically, the Hero Talents feel great so thank you for that!

I support you. My own summary based on the 200 post USA thread and this one:

  • General Paladin Skill-Tree is absolutely outdated and urgently needs a modernization + merging of talents. Paladins have way too much CDs they can trigger, making the base set way too inferior.

  • Prot needs to be partially reworked. Damage is really low, Blessed Hammer is still a trap and only for pre-pull Holy power generation. Mastery is boring, consecration only got a hotfix, Rota has been the same for how many years? Both new skill trees are (if you broaden your perspective) not really satisfying. Yes, prot works, but is it awesome? I’d rather have Legion Prot Pala back.

  • Holy needs to be completely reworked like the Hunter ← Nothing seems to work here at all…no reasonable healing, many talents to press, but no significant healing reaches the target. Depending on stats and procs…Random should not be the normal life of a healer, but only increase the fun of the game.

  • Ret seems largely round. At least!

1 Like

Protection Paladin Feedback:

I love the fantasy of protection paladin and I want to play it in TWW.
But I, like many others, have a few things that would make the spec play much more fluent and much more enjoyable.

  1. Have the talent “Sanctuary” make your consecration follow your character (I think we already had this in Legion? So it shouldn’t be that hard to replicate.

  2. Please make Avengers Shield generate holy power again, it would make the spell be super satisfying to press once again.

  3. And please buff the healing of Word of Glory so it’ll be powerful once again, and it probably needs to cost zero mana also when you’ve got the Shining Light buff up so you avoid going out of mana. And to make it much easier to use maybe you could remove it from the global cooldown.

These three changes, aside from regular tuning so we’re not too overpowered or too weak would make the spec perfect in my opinion!

Thank you.

5 Likes

Holy paladin

Today’s nerfs at the Herald represent the ultimate death of the spec. In particular, the nerf to interaction with Awakening is completely no sense and reduces the fun in gameplay even further.

I don’t understand what the logic of the spec is, at the moment there is no point in playing it since the idea you are transmitting is that you want to push for the use of holy light, gameplay that almost no one likes since it is generally agreed that frenetic melee holy light/glimmer centric gameplay is more fun.

Why play holy pala when you do less healing than other specs by pressing twice as many buttons? What would be the reward of managing proc, different types of gameplay, and a huge variety of CDs? Why do other healing specs rely on a very low number of spells of spells and need to be more rewarding? I am really confused, especially after a final tier of Dragonflight with the class in a pitiful state, forced to play an additional button (virtue) to be minimally competitive on the hps side.

The buff to holy shock is ridiculous, if you try m+ in beta you will find that the life bars do not rise when it is pressed, the same goes for daybreak and divine toll.

Who is giving you the feedback that you want more power on holy light? Why are you pushing for this philosophy?

The perception is that the spec is not played internally by Blizzard, that’s the only explanation.

1 Like

Retribution Paladin
Herald of the Sun

Aurora, and by extension Divine Purpose, doesn’t interact well with Radiant Glory and Crusade since it prevents you from spending any Holy Power until it’s been consumed or removed, meaning you cannot build stacks during the first global, delaying the time it takes to reach 10/10.

  • I’d suggest making Divine Purpose still count as spending the Holy Power, otherwise it might actually end up advantageous to use a macro to get rid of it in order to build stacks quicker, effectively killing Aurora as a Hero talent.

I’d also like to add that there seems to be a bug with Radiant Glory where it sometimes doesn’t actually trigger Avenging Wrath / Crusade if you’ve already got an active buff from the secondary Holy Power effect.