Feedback: Priests

wdym by complicated dps rotation ? If mechanics are complicated for you, change these passives to different ones

Maybe complicated is the wrong word but our rotation is definitely convoluted. Too many buttons that dont interact with our spec at all, too many procs, overall just unintuitive to play. I mean our guide on optimal FILLER usage is more complex and has more caveats than many other specs whole rotation sections have. And well if you want to perform well you have to take those talents so thats not an option for many players.

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Yeah of course. I could also just not press the buttons I have and do even less damage…
From a DPS perspective the raid build includes Mindspike and related talents, as well as Mindgames, PI, DA, MB+SFP Talents and so on. That results in a lot of priority checking when “everything” is ready. Esp. with the current amounts of haste it gets even more hectic. As I said: Whack a Mole on steroids with rotation in “”

That’s it. Of course you can always opt out of active spells and take passive ones. Or you could simply not take the best available toolkit for a given situation which is not an option if you want to at least be able to try to play the best u can.

A totally other situation is e.g. Windwalker Monk. They also have a large number of buttons (slightly more than in SL), but it never gets hectic or feels like whack a mole game. The priority list over there feels much smoother than ours.

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Hi, this is a message from Clandon (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/u/Clandon-icecrown) that has been posted on US forum.
It says everything there is to say about recent change for Evangelism’ duration and since we can’t post there i’ve been given permission to post it here.

I’d like to start off by stating that, yes, Discipline Priest needed nerfs based on their strength and performance on Beta. You won’t find anyone that knows what they’re talking about disagreeing with that, so none of these complaints are targeting the fact that we were nerfed, but about the method of doing so.

Discipline Priest Design Changes

The changes to Evangelism are an attack on the fundamental design philosophy of Discipline Priest being pushed through under the guise of “tuning changes”. This is made significantly worse by the fact that these changes are being pushed through at the end of the beta cycle where we’ll get limited testing and no opportunity to provide feedback or see further design iteration as a result.

Not only are we getting massive design changes at the end of a beta cycle but they’re coming at the end of a beta cycle where we were mostly ignored outside of a few blue posts (most of which were just removing spells we had and telling us why we can’t have others). These changes are making the Discipline Priest community feel like we’re an afterthought.

Many of the proposed changes also feel very conflicting in design to the point where we struggle to understand the goal. Some form of communication from the developer team explaining to us what you want Discipline to look like would go so far, yet we’ve continued to be left in the dark guessing.

If the development team is not happy with how Discipline Priest works, then at least give us the respect of an actual rework started at the beginning of a development cycle, with communication about goals and changes so that the community that will actually be playing the end result can provide feedback. These changes are basically the start of a rework being pushed in at the last minute.

The Impact of Recent Changes on the Playerbase

Evangelism to 3 minutes, Power Word: Radiance Atonement duration decrease, and the various mana cost increases are all examples of changes that directly hit a portion of the player base significantly harder than others. Unfortunately the portion of the player base that gets hit harder here is the casual/entry level player base. These changes all increase the barrier of entry to the specialization.

Evangelism to 3 minutes means that a larger percentage of our ramps will involve much tighter timing requirements, especially when you include the Power Word: Radiance Atonement duration hit. The mana cost changes push Discipline back towards a ramp and then AFK playstyle like we’ve experienced in the past. This playstyle disproportionally affects, once again, the casual/entry level player base significantly more than the high end player base. This issue is made even worse when you include the involvement of Innervate as a potential tool.

Conclusion

These changes cannot go live. They are core design changes being disguised as tuning changes that once again raise the barrier of entry for an already challenging specialization. Please revert the Evangelism, Power Word: Radiance, and possibly some of the mana changes and nerf us through actual throughput numbers instead of attacking our ability to play and enjoy the game.

#priestsdeservebetter

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The restitution talents needs to be changed to allow you to get more hp when respawning even if you’re overhealing.

Dying with it picked when nobody is taking avoidable damage nor the tank is really taking any damage he can’t hselfheal means you respawn at very low hp and can die instantly again.

Hello Priests!

Thank you for your feedback on our recent changes to Evangelism. Discipline healing scales faster than other healing specializations, as target count increases, which makes it challenging for us to tune the spec to be competitive in both small-scale and large-scale content.

To address this, we’re changing Sins of the Many to a low-level passive and increasing its effectiveness. Discipline is currently overperforming our tuning targets in raids in Dragonflight, so we’re doing this alongside several changes to decrease the specialization’s overall power.

You’ll see the following changes as hotfixes to the Dragonflight Beta over the coming days.

Discipline

  • Sins of the Many is now a passive learned at level 12.
    • Increases damage by 30% (was 12%).
    • Damage increase diminishes above 5 Atonement applications (was 1).
  • In the talent tree, Sins of the Many has been replaced with Blaze of Light.
  • Blaze of Light increases the damage of your Smite and Penance by 8%/15% and Penance increases or decreases your target’s movement speed by 25%/50% for 2 seconds.
  • Blaze of Light is no longer a PvP Talent.
  • Evangelism once again has a 1.5 minute cooldown (was 3 minutes).
  • Spell damage heals all targets affected by Atonement for 40% of damage done (was 50%).
  • Power Word: Radiance now applies Atonement for 60% of its normal duration (was 50%).
  • Schism increases spell damage to the target by 15% (was 25%).
  • Malicious Intent increases the duration of Schism by 6 seconds (was 3 seconds).
  • Harsh Discipline has been redesigned.
    • Every 10 / 5 casts of Smite, your next Penance is free and fires an additional 3 bolts. (Was: When Atonement has healed a total of 200 / 100 times, your next Penance is free and fires 3 additional bolts).

Please note: these changes will not be applied all together to the Dragonflight Beta. We expect to deploy them for testing separately over the next few days.

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

9 Likes

Thank you a lot for these changes. They are amazing, please just make sure the changed harsh discipline does not lead to a weird play pattern where you don’t want to press smite to not have a proc fall off while ramping.

Also did I mention these changes are amazing? Cause they are amazing.

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Thank you so so so much, these changes sound amazing!

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Also popping in, I normally don’t post but I feel like this is well deserved! Good job devs, amazing changes. Thank you for listening and we really do appreciate when we feel heard! This looks like a way more promising direction. <3

I’ve not put my feedback about Evang nerf since others did that. But these changes, well… I just want to thank developers for listening to feedback and doing good job. You are amazing and I wish you good day <3

Thank you so much for these changes, they sound awesome <3

Would it be possible if we also threw in a slight rebuff to Mindgames? It feels really unsatisfying to talent into it right now as disc on beta. It hits about as hard as Mind blast which is a rotational ability. No need for a full revert in light of the sins changes. But a slight bump so it’s at least on part with Penance maybe?

Omg, thank you so much. These last two days were hell. I already was researching how to refund my DF Deluxe copy…
Really, really good changes! Esp. for M+ and keeping our base playstyle alive. Thank you! And thank you for taking our feedback seriously!

Thanks for fixing disc. I am really happy for the disc part of the priests, that you took back that Evangelism bullsh*** AND explaining why and how this mishandling could have happened.

On the other hand there still is 1/3 of priests spec missing any kind of conversation besides “sorry we ran out of time”. (I’m talking about shadow in case you never heard of it). Therefore unfortunately I still have to advocate that #priestsdeservebetter

Thank you so much for these changes, this looks so much better <3
Thank you for listening to the feedback.

Nice changes for priests. We, paladins can’t say the same, it’s been 2 months since we got feedback :slight_smile: Sad.
Next expansion blizzard devs will work on us!

Thanks for this changes. It’s so cool to see that we are listened again :smiley: Hope to see more changes needed for Priest soon as you did for Discipline in here :heartpulse:

Seems like my post was flagged as ‘spam’ and thus got removed. However it was most definitely not, and i’m reposting it right away because other posts with the same message haven’t been deleted I’m serious when i say:

#priestsdeservebetter

The lack of communication throughout most of this development cycle as well as the time wasted not iterating on shadow (EIGHT WEEKS) since its tree got revealed in a blogpost even prior to alpha launch is not what we deserve. Shadow also doesn’t deserve to release in a clearly unfinished state for the third expansion in a row!

5 Likes

So is there ever any reason to cast Mind Blast at this point then?

Smite reduces Mindgames CD by 1 sec, triggers big Penance, reduces Penance CD by 0.5 sec, has 10% faster cast time above 75% hp, as well as a bunch of other modifiers you can talent into.

Mind Blast does have a few interactions with the right-side talents, but none of them are very good… the removal of the damage absorb has made it all but redundant on its own

Offering some last minute feedback on shadowpriest. I think with some small tweaks you could make shadow feel a lot more fun:).

  • Increase insanity generation from Mindflay/Dots/Mindspike/mindblast a little bit. Especially in aoe situations our generation feels too low.
  • Swap the tree positions of Idol of N’zoth and Idol of Yogg-saron. So you can pick them in a propper aoe or single target build. Picking insidious ire or malediction before idol of nzoth feels like a waste. While you would really like to pick them before Idol of Yogg-Saron.
  • Increase the damage from Psychic Link. I think this talent is really fun and has so much potential in cleave/aoe situations, but currently the damage is just too low to be taken. I can imagine a Mindspike/Psychic Link build that would be really awesome to play!
  • Reduce cd of shadow crash and dark void, or give the spell 2 stacks. Or something similar that makes our dotspread a little more reliable in dungeons.

Also got one bug:

-Sometimes have a Shadowy Insight proc buff but no Mindblast charge to use it.

2 Likes