Feedback: Priests

I’d like some clarification on Divine Word. Is the 50% increased effectiveness supposed to increase the CC duration of Chastise? I mean I hope not, but we gotta know.

Shadow Priest Feedback

Issues:

  • Searing Nightmare
    Searing Nightmare just doesn’t work with Shadows rotation, or synergize with anything else in the kit.
    Most of that is due to the Mind Sear requirement on the talent which makes our AOE spender a 2-3 global long cast.
    That together with a rotation that is already incredible tight with Void Bolt every 3 globals, dot management and Mind Blast/Death, trying to fit anything that is not 1 global long in between that, just makes the entire rotation fall apart.
    You either sit at capped insanity not pressing Searing Nightmare, or you do nothing BUT press Searing Nightmare.

    We got all these new cool looking additions to the tree that enhances or highlights our dots, apparitions, Mind Blast etc. But still have a AOE spender that doesn’t synergize with either of them.

  • Utility in Spec Tree
    While choice is good, and having the opportunity to pick what thing is needed for what situation is good. Shadow currently have to make most of those decisions inside the actual Spec tree rather than the General tree, which causes us to either lose significant damage, or lose important utility such as Dispersion, Vampiric Embrace, Psychic Horror etc.

  • 2-3 Point Nodes
    The bottom part of the tree has so many multipoint nodes that you can’t really make any interesting combinations.
    Mental Fortitude 2 points
    Sanguine Teachings 3 points
    Unleash the Shadows 2 Points
    Insidious Ire 2 Points
    Rot and Wither 2 Points
    Mind Devourer 2 Points
    Abyssal Knowledge 3 Points.

Idols

  • Idol of N’Zoth: Really cool idea, gives added value to your dots, and gives us increased AOE without further bloating the rotation. The only small issue is mobs dying with X amount of stacks still on them causing much of the value to be lost.

  • Idol of Y’Shaarj: Fun idea to give your Mindbender additional value in an interesting way, but unable to test it since it does not work currently.

  • Idol of C’Thun: This has the exact same issues that our Legendary Eternal Call to the Void have. Having power tied to a filler that you barely press, or while in cooldowns never press, just devalues it so much. It also has most of its value tied to Insanity rather than Damage while we already generate arguably too much in most situations.

  • Idol of Yogg-Saron: The idea is really nice, assuming it works as most of us think. Its an interesting way to turn your Apparitions in AOE into funnel damage. Currently only gives stacks based on casting the spells rather than the actual apparitions spawning tho. So it’s very hard to really judge it.

9 Likes

General Priest Tree Feedback

This is all coming from a Shadow Priests point of view, but it’s applicable for all specs in one way or another.

The general tree leaves very little choice since it’s mostly filled with output nodes rather than utility like many other class trees.
Shadow basically only have 1 way to build for all situations with 2-3 floater points to swap between Leap of Faith, Shackle, Clear Mind, Mind Control and Dispel Disease. And will also be locked to Shadowflame Prism for all situations.

If we focus on Shadowflame Prism first. This brings in rotational issues for the Shadow Priest since it increases the value of builder abilities (Mind Blast/Death) which causes other things like Void Bolt and Devouring Plague to fall below it in priority. This ends up making the rotation very confusing, making us sit at 100 Insanity for long periods of time.

Or for situations (mass AOE) where you won’t get any value of Shadowflame Prism, you do not have any other options in the tree. This applies to Mindgames aswell since it’s not worth to press after X amount of targets. But if you do not take SFP/Mindgames there really isn’t anything else you can take that would help the group/situation. No additional raid utility, nothing.

There is already a lot of additional utility within the priest class that is currently instead used in the Spec Trees that could maybe make the general tree a lot more interesting, things such as Vampiric Embrace, Dispersion, Mind Bomb, Psychic Voice, Silence, Hallucinations, Shining Force, Barrier, Hymn, Symbol of Hope, Purify, Halo/Divine Star etc.
or old spells like Spectral Guise and Cascade.

It almost feels like the left and right side of the tree are fighting against each other rather than working together as a “Priest Tree”. Many points are referencing spells the other specs don’t even have.

9 Likes

Shadow Priest Feedback

Talent tree structure and a lack of clear thematics

The structure of the talent tree makes very little sense and feels like it lacks any clear thematic or meaning. In a very basic understanding you have the “baseline Shadow” choices at the top which then branches out right for Single Target or left for AoE/Cleave. But the routes feel like they dont make much sense and are mostly just random spells thrown in to fill the void.

The left side is a mix of everything from Apparitions, Psychic Link, Shadow Crash, Dot damage and Mindbender.

  • With your AoE being 90% Searing Nightmare that doesnt synergises with either of em (more about this in a previous post)

The right side is a mix of everything from Mind Flay/Mind Sear, Damnation, Void Torrent, Mind Blast, Apparitions here aswell, even more Mindflay stuff and Vampiric Insight proc chance.

We also have the Apparition Idol on the right side capstone, while having 4 out of 5 additional apparition nodes on the left side.

It was also made clear with the preview post about the tree that Dark Thoughts was reworked into Vampiric Insight because, and I quote, “The reasoning is Dark Thoughts placed a large emphasis on Mind Flay and made it feel mandatory to keep it always channeled to roll for a proc”. But then we instead get 5 new talents that still focuses on our fillers (Monomania/Void Touched/Abyssal Knowledge/Rot & Wither/Idol of C’thun).

Having a tree that is 1/4th utility nodes (10 out of 42) removes a lot of chance for customisation. Theres only really left or right, with a bunch of utility thrown in ontop of it. There is no customisation for our spenders (Devouring Plague/Searing Nightmare, Void Bolt or cooldowns.

7 Likes

Feedback on Discipline priest talents and feel

Class tree

So the class tree is interesting but also abit weird for several reasons
For example disc already dispells Diseases with purify but yet to get smite dmg and mana regen from Improved Smite and Enlightenment we are forced in to taking Purify disease (I assume that this will just be changed so that it lets purify also dispell diseases but still its pretty lame having to spend a talent point on something purify has done for years already.

Then theres talents like Tithe Evasion there just no logic to that talent and its placement forcing you to spend 2 points to make shadow word death hurt you less to get Mindgames like theres no interaction between those 2 spells and Shadowword death is not a dangerous button to click already unless its like Anduin intermission in execute range and those situations happens extremly rarely its just a very bad talent and feels out of place and forced.

Holy part of class tree
PoM as disc iguess why not but still has 0 interaction with our mastery on targets with atonements same with renew and feels like 2 very dead buttons that we will never click unless tuned very strong. (Maybe while running with nothing to do) But atleast we are not forced to pick anything there as we get PoM for free.

Defensives
So tbh defensive options for disc atleast im happy with it in the class tree getting both fade prayer and Maschoism is good for us slow weak cloth users so no complains there or well only thing i would like to see is Fade being DR for the entire duration and not just first 5 seconds cuz comon 5% dr for 10 seconds that rly isnt to much to ask for.

Wishlist for class tree

  • So my wishes remove Tithe Evasion
  • Maybe replace Holy nova with mindsear in the class tree both holy and disc would like that a lot more not being forced in to melee and it would fit disc’s kit a lot better then holy nova
  • Purify disease tbh remove and replace let purify delete diseases on its own baseline or atleast make purify disease just give purify that power so we dont have 2 buttons doing the samething.
  • Let fade give 5% dr for the full duration cuz cmon it aint even a lot of DR
  • Remove Taming the shadows or rework it cuz legit that talent has absolutly no reason at all to even exsist it gives NOTHING no one cares about shadowmends extremly minor negative effect and they never will its just a weird thing to ever be added.

Disc specc tree

Light side

Tbh i like this side except for a few things

  • Contrition??? why its been dead since it was added years ago in BFA and the nodes its connected to dosnt even interact with it they are litterarly opposites (Purge the wicked) to eachother and currently contrition dosnt even give Harsh discipline stacks cuz its not ‘‘atonement healing’’ to me its a weird talent or atleast a weird position for it in the tree. i would much rather see it changed to something like ‘‘When you defensive penance you cleave to 2 nearby allies’’ or something like that as it would make it a better 5 man talent but then it would need to be moved away from Purge the wicked

  • Exaltation
    Pretty dead ‘‘conduit’’ its to weak would need a buff to make it usefull or atleast be abit more like Clarity of mind so you could combine it with spiritshell as atm spiritshell without Clarity of mind is also a dead talent.

  • Spiritshell
    As mentioned above Spiritshell without clarity of mind is a very dead button you just lose out on to much atonement duration to make any efficent ramps and this talent is extremly toxic to other healers if made strong so its a hard balance point and very hated by majority of disc players.

  • Lights wrath
    Very nice loved this spell though please change the icon :stuck_out_tongue:

  • Sins of the many
    Its a weird talent cuz you want it to be good on low atonement count but yet its just become a standard raid talent to take and it will be that in raiding again this expansion as you want to go that way to reach rapture i feel like this talent needs a look at to either cater in to 5 man content or raiding like it did during legion (legion version was a lot better and cooler tbh)

  • Pain Transformation
    Why? its weak and very bad and in 99% of scenarios you use Painsup to negate dmg not for it to heal 5-10% of someones max HP its a very dead talent

  • Shining radiance
    For some reason you want to force us to take radiance healing before gaining our second charge of radiance and tbh i dont get why it is in that order it just removes a lot of choice and 20% is a very very very small amount compared to our current conduit but thats a tuning issue

  • Harsh discipline
    Tbh nothing wrong with this its a rly cool talent and a lot better then the current RNG element in The pentinent

Shadow part of the tree
So overall the shadow part of the tree for disc is going in a cool direction wanting to integrate shadowspells in to disciple but its so far not rly working as we lost shadowspells going in to dragonflight and 1 of the most importent ones lost is mindsear theres just no logic in removing that when you make the shadow part force us in to 4 extra seconds of shadowcovenant where we will just end up not having enough shadow GCD’s to press. And then theres also the issue that the dot from wickedstar dosnt interact with atonements though that might be a bug.

Disc tree wishlist

  • I would love for contrition to be changed or removed its just counterintuetive to our kit atm and just a forced pick to get talents that has 0 interaction with it

  • Spiritshell needs somekind of clarity of mind effect to it for it to ever be picked and exaltation changes might be able to do that though honestly spiritshell is so toxic and not liked i wouldnt mind if it was removed and changed to a 5 man talents VS evangelism such as Trinity for 5 man.

  • Add Trinity for disc in 5 man content as mentioned above TRINITY IS NEEDED discs atonement transfer in keys is very awkward to play with and you legit end up shadowmend spamming to keep ppl alive and its such a bad playstyle. During shadowlands 9.2 boon of the aschended on a 1 min cd helped us not have to shadowmend spam like crazy but we dont have that anymore and trinity adding a higer 5 man atonement transfer is very nessesary to make disc atleast not depressing in 5 man content. Insted of trinity you could also give atonement the tranq treatment so that it transfers for when in 5 man content.

  • Change the shadow tree give us more cool shadow things as disc is a mix between light and darkness and tbh bring back silence on wicked star other healers already have interrupts in the class tree’s so why not us

  • A wish i think will never happen but il mention it again remove evangelism from the GCD it makes raid rampes a lot less awkward when we dont have to extend atonements and then wait before we are able to hit our ramp and that could actually open up for Inner light and Shadow to actually be used and not just left on ‘‘default’’ for the entire fight. As atm Inner light and shadow is pretty much a passive 10% atonement transfer that we will never swap around cuz its also on the GCD and we cant afford spending GCD’s in our already super cramped ramp windows.

3 Likes

Greetings, Priests!

With the next alpha update, you will see that all trees within the Priest class, including the core talent tree, have received substantial changes in terms of pathing, arrangement, and choices. For the entirety of these changes, please look forward to this week’s patch notes. That said, let’s Leap of Faith in and take a peek at some of the changes we have in store for Priests in Dragonflight.

Core Tree

The original tree had limited choices as it was obvious which direction you were supposed to go based on specialization. Additionally, we wanted to reel back on how much throughput was available in the Core tree. While there will still be some throughput options available, we wanted to focus on utility options within the Core tree to let the Specialization trees focus more on throughput choices. Here are some abilities you will see in the Core tree:

  • (New) Angelic Bulwark – When an attack brings you below 30% health, you gain an absorption shield equal to 15% of your maximum health for 20 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 90 seconds.

  • (New) Void Shift – You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount.

  • Holy Word: Life – A word of holy power that heals the target. If the target is below 35% health, Holy Word: Life heals for 400% more and the cooldown of Holy Word: Life is reduced by 20 seconds.

Holy Tree

Our goal with Holy was to allow for further specialization into your favorite spells. Whether it’s increasing the power of your single target heals, AoE interactions with Prayer of Healing and Holy Word: Sanctify, or you just want Renew on your entire group, we hope you are able to find a playstyle you enjoy.

  • (New) Revitalizing Prayers – Prayer of Healing as a 30% chance to apply a 6 secondsond Renew to allies it heals.

  • Harmonious Apparatus – Circle of Healing reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Sanctify, Prayer of Mending reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Serenity, and Holy Fire reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Chastise by 2/4 seconds.

  • (New) Spirited Litany – After Prayer of Mending heals 80/40 times, gain Power Infusion for 10 seconds.

Discipline Tree

With Discipline, we aimed to address a lot of the dependency issues that existed and, like Holy, address the lack of connectedness in the tree. Along with this, we took a hard look at what choices were being offered to the player and revised those as well. Here are some examples of new spells in the Discipline tree along with some changes to core spells:

  • Power Word: Shield now has a cooldown and its absorb has been significantly increased. Weakened Soul has been removed. Renew and Flash Heal can now apply Atonement and are intended to be primary sources of Atonement application. Our aim is to allow for individual Power Word: Shield casts for each spec to be more valuable as well as reducing frustration surrounding the Weakened Soul debuff.

  • (New) Expiation – Increases the damage of Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death by 10/20%. Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death consume 3/6 seconds of Shadow Word: Pain or Purge the Wicked, instantly dealing that damage.

  • (New) Aegis of Wrath – Power Word: Shield absorbs 30% additional damage, but the absorb amount decays by 3% every 1 seconds.

  • (New) Divine Aegis – Critical heals create a protective shield on the target, absorbing 15% of the amount healed. Lasts 15 seconds. Critical heals with Power Word: Shield absorb 15% additional damage.

Shadow Tree

Shadow has received the largest batch of changes among the group. Our initial aim was to address dungeon gameplay surrounding Searing Nightmare. Here’s a few changes that we expect will improve Shadow’s dungeon gameplay:

  • Shadow Crash – Now applies Vampiric Touch to 4 targets.

  • (New) Dark Void – Deals damage to your target and nearby enemies, and applies Shadow Word: Pain to 8 targets.

  • (New) Pain of Death – Shadow Word: Death deals 20% of its damage to all targets affected by your Shadow Word: Pain within 40 yards.

  • Mind Blast’s damage can be increased through a few talents, allowing for Psychic Link to become more valuable in AoE.

  • Mind Sear now costs Insanity instead of generating Insanity. Its damage has been significantly increased.

  • Searing Nightmare has been removed.

We also discussed a design where Voidform is not central to the spec. Prior to Legion, the spec had its share of fun talents and abilities that we have modernized and brought into the talent tree, including Mind Spike and Dark Evangelism.

We appreciate the abundance of feedback given and your patience as we worked on bringing the Priest talent trees in line with our current design philosophy. We will continue to monitor feedback in the coming weeks as we bug fix and finish implementation on these last few talents. Thank you and we will see you in the Dragon Isles soon!

6 Likes

I’ve been playing around a bit with Disc and Shadow for a few hours and here are some initial things that stand out to me.


  • Class tree

    • Translucent Image - 5% damage reduction feels insulting. I realise it now lasts for the entire duration of Fade rather than just the first 5 seconds, but I would rather have 10% on 5 seconds personally.

    • Shadow Mend - 15 second cd?? I realise this ability is in a weird spot now that Flash Heal is once again available to all specs, but this is a really strange way to address it. In my opinion this should simply be reverted to the current live version (Flash Heal for Holy, Shadow Mend for Shadow/Disc - there is no reason for both of these heals to be available to one spec other than button bloat)


  • Disc Tree

    • Mind Blast - No longer applies a damage absorption effect. Is this intended, or is it another case of “rank 2” getting lost in the update? I’m hoping for the latter, as its removal would make the ability feel practically redundant.

    • Pain Transformation - This is bad, even in PvP which is likely what the node is aimed at. The heal is abysmal (for reference the version on live is currently 31.5%, compared to the beta version of a pitiful 12%)

    • Revel in Purity - Technically not bad, but suffers from the same problems this ability has had ever since introduced; for some reason it randomly decides to not spread to a nearby target when Penance is cast. Giving this the Twin Moons treatment and making Purge the Wicked cast on an additional nearby target instead would make it feel a lot better.

    • Weal and Woe - Feels kind of boring and awkward. It’s just something you passively benefit from without any thought. It’s easy to accidentally consume the damage buff with PW:S when repositioning, but then the small damage buff to your lowest priority filler is not all that exciting either.

Some minor things:
Contrition is still terrible, but since you are no longer required to talent into it to progress further I can live with it.

The Embrace Shadow / Twilight Corruption choice node is odd. It’s unlikely Shadow Covenant will see any play, but if it does you would likely need both of them. I don’t see a world (assuming covenant is viable) where you would want a longer covenant but without the shadow penance…

Remove the Archbishop Benedictus’ Restitution talent option in the holy priest talent tree, in shadowlands so far the legendary for that talent has been abused for all of the 4 shadowlands seasons in PVP arena’s to use this ressurection mechanic as an additional pseudo cool down to avoid having to trade actual class cooldowns. Ankh for shamans has been in the game for a long time yet it is not possible to ankh in arenas, whereas this resurrection for holy priests has been possible. There is no skill or counterplay to a priest being able to ressurect in arena’s as the spirit of redemeption form is not killable/not CC’able nor is it interruptible. The concept of it probably should have its place in PVE scenarios for example in mythic plus, but in PVP instances there is no place for these abilities with ZERO counterplay. I suggest that either you completely remove Archbishop Benedictus’ Restitution or that you disable the ‘coming back to life’ in PVP. Holy priests have MORE than enough utility and cool downs to keep themselves alive with divine ascension, desperate prayer, chastise, fear, guardian angel, ray of hope, apotheosis, and void shift. For holy priests on top of all of this to have the ability to ressurect themselves would in essence mean by default that they will be dominating the PVP healer meta by a large margin(as seen in season 3 of shadowlands) due to the fact that they have so many powerful cooldowns on a short CD.

4 Likes

Please bring back Greater Fade as a pvp talent, it was a good defensive cd on a relatively short cooldown. I don’t mind if Archbishop Benedictus’ Restitution is removed in pvp as a trade off.

2 Likes

Unwavering will has been broken since it was introduced. Fix it please.

Shadow Priest Feedback

Want to start of by saying that the tree is looking a lot better than previously, and its moving in the right direction. Most of the ideas at a core makes sense, but they need to be brought into 2022 a little bit, and work with current Shadow rather than what it used to be back in Cata.

General Tree

Theres not a lot of bad things to say here really, kinda nailed it. Brought most of the output talents out of the tree and gave us options for utility and defensives. But…

  • Death and Madness
    The update to Death and Madness makes very little sense as it just feels like a fancy way of saying “You have 2 charges of Shadow Word: Death if the target is under 20% health” and completely removed the possibility of death sniping entier packs at the end of pulls.
    I think the general idea of it reseting on not killing, rather than killing can work, and to stop it being abusable on 1 target by just casting Death over and over again it could be tied to the debuff on the target rather than a global cap of 1 reset.
    That way we can “death snipe” every target once at the end of packs. Would give some slick gameplay with Shadowflame Prism and the new talent Pain Death.

  • Improved Mind Blast
    Improved Mindblast being so far down the tree feels very strange.

  • Shadow Mend
    The 15s cooldown on Shadow Mend feels like a fix for Holy to not abuse it, but brings immense issues to Shadow that are already struggling with Button Bloating.
    It just forces us to find yet another button to put Flash Heal on.

Shadow Priest Tree

As mentioned above, this tree looks SO much better than the previous one, and it finally feels like we have a base to work on. The removal of Searing Nightmare is hugely appreciated.

  • Mind Sear
    I think a lot of people were afraid that Mind Sear as a AoE Spender would just feel like Searing Nightmare, but it actually feels really really good. Its fast, its punchy, and the global investment is the same as Devouring Plague.
    Very good.
    The few issues are that the tick rate on Mind Sear seem to be very slightly off.
    Its set to tick once every 1s (0.8s with Derangement) instead of every 0.75 (half global),
    and the Damage of it is a little low since it has to compete with Devouring Plague + Apparition damage.

  • Dark Void
    The first BIG problem.
    The cooldown is just way way to long, and the cap of 8 targets makes no sense.
    The duration of Shadow Word: Pain w/o Misery, is 16s, yet the cooldown of Dark Void is 30s.
    So even with the help of Mental Decay, you’re just sitting there without SW:P on your targets for 8-10s+.
    And the target cap makes very little sense. We have Misery+SC (which feels amazing btw) on 1-4 targets, and supposedly Dark Void on 5 targets and above, yet it caps at 8. So anything above 8 we just dont get dots on, which feels very off for a class that revolves around keeping atleast some dots active on your targets because of Mastery.
    Would take no damage, and no insanity if it ment a cooldown that worked with the base duration of SW:P and a uncapped spread of Shadow Word: Pain.

  • Mind Spike
    Mind Spike needs to be modernised a lot more. The current version just doesnt flow with the current spec. Having a spell which core mechanic is to remove dots on a spec that wants to keep dots active at all times just have way too many anti-synergies.
    It feels like the intended use of it is as a punchy, more bursty filler together with Dark Ascension, which as an idea def sounds interesting. But it cant have dot extinguish then.

  • Dark Ascension+Voidform
    I think almost everyone thought DA would be a alternative playstyle to Voidform. But with its positioning it just kinda feels like another 2 minute CD that you always pair with Voidform, and it makes for a very clunky entry into CDs where you want to first prestack 5 stacks of Dark Evangelism, pop Voidform and PI, cast DA, and then flay again to get 5 stacks of Dark Evangelism before you can really pop off.
    Feels like it needs to be thought out a little bit more in what its intended use case is.

  • Vampiric Insight
    Please make it a flat % chance to proc rather than RPPM. It would flow so much better with this version of Shadow that focuses so much on Mind Blast, and Mind Blast cleave.
    Putting up Vampiric Touch on several targets and getting no additional proc chance just leaves the spec in one speed.

As an ender, I think Idols needs to find its place in the tree again, they are interesting ideas (if worked on a little bit more) but kinda just feels like they are slapped into the end of the tree routes that doesnt really make sense. Like having Idol of Nzoth at the end of a Mind Blast route, and C’thun/Yogg-Saron in some weird flay/VT/PL route.

1 Like

For the most part Shadow’s looking much better than the previous build besides a plethora of bugs. I’m most are known but haven’t seen anyone mention the shadow crash – unfurling darkness bug. Currently Shadow Crash will both proc and consume the proc when it lands.

Biggest concern for me is mass AOE. Besides spamming dots, we don’t have anything to do… By the time we’ve dotted the whole pack, it’s likely dead… We also don’t currently generate enough insanity to get decent mind sear usage which is our only filler AOE button (Assuming it gets buffed and we actually want to use it).

Best fix I can think of is uncapping how many targets shadow crash applies VT too. It sounded too strong when I thought of it originally but compared to what other classes can do, is it?

This would fix our insanity gen on larger packs so we can get better mind sear usage and this will then extend our dots properly and prevent that horrendous moment when they are falling off and we have to go back to tab dotting.

Also, Void Torrent feels kinda useless, it should at least work with Mental Decay…

Shadow priests look amazing BUT still that void form and everything related to it for me just not fit to shadow priests at all.

Would be great if there were shadow form for shadow priests and void form for void priests.

I literally hate void form and everything related to it. It’s not my shadow priest i have been playing till legion. It just sucks.

I can only hope and ask that you will be able to play game without forced to pick void form.

Also [Mastery: Shadow Weaving] could be reworked that instead voidform, power infusion would grant this effect that during power infusion all dots take maximum effect. That would help to separate shadow priests from void priests.

Holy Priest Feedback

The latest beta build revamp is a huge improvement to the old holy priest tree but there are a few talent placements and talents in general that feel a bit weak

I like the push towards Renew being more impactful and having interaction with Circle of Healing via Healing Chorus

Benediction feels far too low at 15% to help push towards the Renew playstyle, I think it should be at least 25-30% for it to feel more worthwhile taking as a talent

Revitalising Prayers is quite interesting and plays nicely into an AoE/renew build but at it’s current tuning I think it wouldn’t get chosen much over Sanctified Prayers. I’d say it either needs to be a 40%+ chance or the renew duration needs to be higher to compensate the lower proc chance

Spirited Litany doesn’t feel great to have to choose to access Divine Words in my opinion, the RNG nature of Spirited Litany just makes it feel really unreliable and I’m doubtful it’ll ever really be that useful in most settings and would rather see the talent replaced with something else entirely

Enlightment Feels like it’s in a bit of an awkward position and it would be much better suited to be closer to the center row of talents

Lightweaver Is an interesting muted down version of Flash Concentration which is a playstyle I’m personally eager to move away from and would much rather see us have a spell/talent that is closer to just having the Wrath of the Lich king version of Greater Heal

As a last point, Surge of Light being moved to the core priest tree is cool and all but it being lowered to 4% proc rate feels pretty weak compared to how it used to be and think if nothing else could do with a talent in the Holy tree to make the proc rate higher again.

Better than the first iteration, still some issues, specially with shadow (in the tree and in the philosophy, though the actual tree version is a big improvement over the previous one), but let’s go step by step:

CLASS TREE:

Elephant in the room: healer priests are the only healers without an interrupt, I know you do not like for all classes to have the same utilities, and that silence in it’s actual form is too powerful but, mark my words, if you do not adress this now, I see a 90% chance you will have to adress it for 10.1 and in a worse position. I suggest to put a weaker version (interrupt only) in the class tree, with an improved version (full silence as it is now) for shadow priest tree. Because I’m already seeing the content creators who love to do PIIIII tier lists puting priests as the last ones and worst ever because of that (and I already had enough of a bad beggining in Shadowlands playing holy priest in M+ and beign marked as the reason for every key depletion by players who did not know even what an interrupt is, or which mob must they interrupt, because my class was PIIII according to those PIIIII PIII).

I do not understand the purpose of Improved Purify, holy priest Purify version already removes all diseases baseline, and shadow priest do not even have purify disease in it’s toolkit in this iteration (but they should, btw), so something is amiss here.

Swap places between Angelic Feather and the Sheer Terror/Void Tendrils node, looks better for shadow priest in order to pick Mass Dispell, although feather is not a terribly bad option.

Vampiric Embrace In it’s current form, it’s a bit lackluster for holy, though excellent for shadow and good for discipline, I suggest to make it work with both holy and shadow damage, and it will be a great pick for every spec.

Twins of the sun priestess As both PI and this talent are going to stay, at least lets make this talent easier to use for shadow/discipline. In it’s current form, specially shadow priest (but discipline also) must broke their rotations in order to target another character/pet (yes, it does work with pets, you might want to fix that) and then return to their previous target. I suggest to make it a buff similar to paladins beacon of light, but instead of duplicate healing, the character with the ‘beacon of power’ will get PI when the priests uses it on itself.

Surge of healing does 0% for shadow, even if a shadow priest might want to pick Holy Word: Life, the amount of ‘not very good/bad talents’ (from shadow’s perspective) necessary to reach it is excessive. Though I suggest to put something shadow priests might want in order to improve this, Void Shift in a more accesible part of the tree for shadow might compensate the lack of Holy Word: Life, so no real pressure for this change.

Angelic Bulwark Is no competition under any circumstance for any of the other three final talents in the tree under its current form, needs improvement or change by a different spell.

SHADOW PRIEST

Lets begin with philosophy changes. The main reason for which Void form/Void eruption were introduced for shadow priests in Legion was their lack of a Burst damage CD, no one wanted us because we were unable to have a burst damage window, we went then into the ‘we live into a damage CD’ version of Legion and then to the, ‘we use a damage CD as part of our core rotation’, until now. I know some of my younger, and less experienced, shadow coleagues have even talked about a possible full removal of this combo, I disagree with them, heavily. To not make it a core part of our rotation as it is now, I’m ok with that, but we still need a ‘reliable use in need’ damage CD. Neither Power Infusion (which will degenerate, again, in it being used when a different class needs it, even with TotSP), nor Dark Ascension (which needs a big ramp up time) are such CDs, and I like the tendrils surging from me, as a bonus. (Another alternative could be to make Dar Ascension a reliable damage CD without ramp up, the wings are cool too).

We still have to choose between utilities (dispersion) and DPS…

Mind Spike Though some people liked it, it was one of the most boring and annoying periods for most of the shadow priests, we were class which put dots… forced to remove such dots in order to make damage and play like an arcane mage, but doing less damage, it was, and still is, counterintuitive (and might turn into have to redesign our mastery again, which I think would be a pity, because this version is very thematic). This version of the mind spike theme looks better than the first versión but, like holy priest locked into ‘Flash concentration’ playstile, I would hate to see shadow priest locked in this playstile because is ‘the best option’, as an alternative for some encounters, fine, as part of our core rotation, not again, please.

Idol of Yogg-Saron/Idol of N’Zoth Though they are very cool spells, and thematic, I’m not very fond of charges which can, specially for the Yogg-Saron one, trigger at the end of an encounter, making the talent a double chance proc, first for the chance of getting apparitions/charges, second because the timing of the thing/collapse might not hit almost anything.

Dark Void sohuld be capped for damage, but uncapped for SW:P application.

Good job with a lot of the other parts, I love the change to Mysery, Auspicious Spirits/Tormented spirits node is amazing, Mind sear feels good to press, I like Shadow crash improvement a lot (though 5 targets cap would be better, in my opinion). Keep going.

HOLY PRIESTS

Like the previous version, I like most of it (even though I’m not fond of the playstile around ‘Renew’), with a few tweaks.

Enlightenment Either reduce the mana cost of holy spells by 10% baseline and remove this talent (is kind of boring), or swap the place of this talent with Everlasting light, because we will need it almost for sure, and it is kind of too set aside.

Light weaver ‘Flash concentration v2.0’… no thanks… or at least improve Lightwell radius of effect to 20 yards and reduce it’s cooldown to 1.5 min so it can kind of compete.

Prismatic Echoes what the PIII is this PIII? Will we need a talent (actually 2 talents, as it is a double point) to make our mastery useful, really?

And I think this is all for now, because I have not played Disc in a long, long time and I’m not even going to pretend I know how it works right now, keep the good work.

1 Like

The biggest question Why Mind Spike? I dont like it so much and I dont give feedback or support for Mind Spike. Mind Spike doesnt exist so please remove it immediately. It is not FUN to press, it makes me sick of it because it is not part of shadow class. Never been ever…!!! Thank you!

Reminder to rework or remove Archbishop Benedictus Restitution talent in PVP instances, all other class cooldowns such as lay on hands/ankh ressurection and so on that have a cooldown of 10+ minutes(similar to the cooldown of archbishop benedictus restitution) are disabled in PVP yet this talent is not. There is ZERO counterplay or skill involved in using this talent in PVP as the spirit of redemption is not interruptible/CC’able or killable. Talents or abilities with zero to no counterplay do not have a place in ANY single pvp instances and would simply be an avenue to abuse this ressurection mechanic to avoid having to use class abilities to trade for other offensive cooldowns. Keep it enabled for PVE instances such as raids/m+ or whatnot and disable the 'coming back to life’part in all PVP scenarios.

1 Like

Shadow Priest Feedback

So before getting into specifics I think it’s important to mention that both the class tree and the spec tree are significant improvements over their initial designs, so big props to blizzard for that. With that being said there is still a fair number of issues and iterations that could still be done to make further improvements.

It’s also worth mentioning that I have very little experience with Holy, Disc or PVP.

TLDR:

  • Silence moved to the class tree
  • Dispersion made baseline
  • Not enough options to pickup utility/defensive talents in the spec tree
  • Shadow’s button bloat is out of control
  • Mind Spike should replace Mind Flay
  • Dark Ascension & Void Eruption should be a choice node
  • Void Eruption/Void Form needs a new focus
  • Merge Void Torrent & Damnation into new single target nuke

Class tree

Silence:
Its pretty weird to me that blizzard seems to be setting the president that an interrupt will be either baseline or available in the class tree, but for some reason priest is the only class in the game currently (I think?) that doesn’t have access to an interrupt in their class tree. This could be for a lot of different reasons (maybe its op for healers to have Silence in pvp?) but I think there is more than enough ways to reduce its power, move it into the class tree and give shadow ways to modify it in the spec tree.

Void Tendrils:
Void tendrils is pretty mediocre in its current iteration but I think it could be something very cool. Personally, I would like to see it moved out of the class tree, reworked and added to the spec tree. Shadow struggles with unique utility, there are few reasons you would be excited to bring specifically a shadow priest to a dungeon or a raid, especially if holy or disc are strong. Void tendrils could be the uniqueness that shadow is crying out for, I think a good idea (which has been floating around in feedback for a while) is for void tendrils to function like spear of bastion, a targeted area that keeps mobs in place. There is no ranged spec that currently has any utility like this and I think it could be a very thematic skill to add to shadows toolkit.

Vampiric Embrace:
I like the addition of vampiric embrace (and San’layn) to the class tree but for shadow it has a few issues worth mentioning. Firstly, VE is pretty heavily nerfed from the current live values, and secondly and more importantly VE is still on the global cooldown. Blizzard has commented that the reason VE is on the global cooldown is because hallucinations exists, but with the changes to the talent tree you can now bypass hallucinations making VE feel pretty bad to press.

Divine Star & Halo:
I’m not against bringing back divine star and halo (even if I would have preferred cascade over halo) but I’m worried this adds even more buttons to shadows already very full action bars (I’ll get into this in the spec section). It might not be the worst idea to move this choice node into the disc and holy tree instead of a class tree option.

Mindgames:
I find it very difficult to see Mindgames as anything more than a press on CD semi rotational button, which I think it is a shame. The reversing damage/healing aspect of Mindgames should be what is most attractive about picking up the skill. Players should want to find times to use the skill for maximum effect, and not just send it whenever its off CD. With its current design picking up Mindgames also somewhat locks you into spending the 3 talent points after it which I don’t think feels great.

Fade Nodes:
Fades DR has been reduced by quite a lot, but the time you benefit from the DR has gone up (50% uptime on a 5% DR). I Personally think a stronger but shorter DR is preferred over this current iteration. I would also like to see some movement speed or something else added to the Phantasm talent.

Smaller Points of Class Tree Feedback:

  • Power Infusion should not be castable on pets
  • Having access to Body and Soul & Angelic Feather is cool but again, adds more keybinds into the spec

Spec Tree

Layout:
Shadow has a lot of throughput nodes, so many in fact, that the number of points you have to ‘flex’ into utility or defensive options is incredibly small. Before the first gate, for a single target build you will most likely have 1 point to ‘flex’, and for an AoE build you have 0. The same is true at the second gate and at the bottom of the tree. I would really like the option to pick up Intangibility, Mental Fortitude, Tithe Evasion or Psychic Horror etc. when the situation required it without feeling like I’m giving up important damage nodes.
A few different ways that you could go about trying to help with this:

  • Make Dispersion baseline
  • Move Silence into the class tree
  • Remove Piercing Shadows, this is a boring maintenance buff what require no skill to actually maintain
  • Make Maddening Touch and Whispers of the Dammed 1-point nodes
  • Remove Damnation & Malediction (Damnation wouldn’t be entirely removed with feedback I have for Void Torrent later on)

Button Bloat:
I’ve already mentioned it quite a lot in this post but shadow has access to so many buttons its borderline uncomfortable to play. Just counting skills that are rotational or damage orientated you have access to around 16 skills! Now I’m not opposed to a more involved rotation but this feels more awkward than fun to play.
A few different ways that you could go about trying to help with this (I’ll talk about this more a little later on):

  • Mind Spike replaces Mind Flay
  • Make Void Eruption & Dark Ascension a choice node
  • Remove Void Bolt
  • Move Divine Star/Halo to the Holy and Disc tree
  • Make Mindgames a utility skill and not a rotational button

Mind Spike:
Mind Spike and its associated talents are kinda a mixed bag for me the more I have thought about the skill returning, and to me there are clear pros and cons.
Pros:

  • Surge of Darkness adds a proc based gameplay that adds some flavour into the rotation
  • Decent synergies for Mind Spike throughout the tree
  • Works well with Dark Ascension gameplay

Cons:

  • Removing DoT’s is not fun and is anti-synergistic with shadow’s mastery
  • Adds another button to the rotation

The two cons in my mind are pretty easy to fix, firstly remove the extinguishing DoT’s aspect of the spell, secondly have Mind Spike replace Mind Flay and Thirdly move the stacking Mind Blast crit buff off the base ability and add it into the Mind Melt talent. As a base filler, Mind Spike would probably have to be weaker than Mind Flay dealing less damage and generating less insanity, but with the associated talents it could be a fun skill to weave into the rotation, cleaving with Psychic Link, expending DoT’s with Mental Decay and seeing bigger benefits from the Dark Ascension playstyle.

Dark Ascension
Speaking of Dark Ascension my initial thoughts are positive and introducing a potential version of the spec that during its CD is more focused on direct damage as apposed to the normal DoT based playstyle is a nice addition. The problem I have with Dark Ascension is that it is not a choice node against Void Eruption and you can take both CD’s. Having the option to take both I think will limit how strong and impactful each cooldown can be, whereas if they were both in a choice node there could be a stronger emphasis on the different gameplay styles/damage profiles.

Void Eruption/Void Bolt:
With the addition of Dark Ascension Void Eruption is beginning to lack any clear direction, and I think it could easily be fixed by making Void Eruption/Void Form be the ‘Periodic Damage Cooldown’. This way players can choose to emphasise different types of damage for different types of content. Somewhat regardless of if Void Eruption is changed, I think void bolt is no longer a fun of a button to press, constant nerfs have left it feeling very weak and the DoT extension is not as valuable now that talents like Mental Decay exist. With the skills that are being added to shadow’s rotation I think Void Bolt should be removed.

Surrender to Madness:
To be honest, after Legion this talent has been pretty bad and lost a lot of its wow factor. I think this talent needs to be removed or significantly reworked if Blizzard intend to keep it in the game.

Void Torrent/Damnation:
With Shadow Crash getting buffed (which I think it great and hopefully blizzard keeps the interaction with Misery) Void Torrent just seems so boring and kinda pointless. Long gone are the days where it served a very valuable purpose, now its just a bunch of damage and insanity over 3 seconds. Void Torrent also doesn’t synergise with Dark Ascension because its channelled and counts as periodic damage which I think is a missed opportunity. An idea I think would make for a better spell would be to combine Void Torrent and Damnation to create a shadow style pyroblast! A cast time skill that fires void energy that does a ton of damage and applies all your dots to the target. This would give a strong thematic single target alternative to Shadow Crash that can also benefits from Dark Ascension.

Capstone Talents (Idols):
As far as capstone talents go, they’re fine, but that kinda it, just fine. I would like to see Blizzard take another pass at these talents to try and give them a bit more umph. On a note about Idol of C’Thun, I’d really like to see the void tendrils that spawn be attached to the player, I think it would be visually a significant improvement, plus you’d never have to worry about mobs going out of range (but its mainly for the visuals).

Conclusion:
While I’ve outlined parts of the trees that I personally think have problems and I’m sure there are many more problems I haven’t touched on, it’s still important to note that this is the new square 1 for these talent trees, and I hope and expect Blizzard to use community feedback to iterate of the trees over the coming weeks and months.

3 Likes

Disc:

Balance of All Things is really cool and fun, but we don’t have enough rotational shadow spells to make the playstyle fluid. Consider a talent giving us permanent Dark Reprimand (shadow penance) or make Divine Star the shadow version for disc. This would make it flow a lot better.

3 Likes

I hope we arent up for yet another month of silence. Shadow spec is full od bugs and unfinished talents, which makes it impossible to test. It needs alot of polishing.

Some bugs were reported day after the talents were released in alpha.