Feedback: Priests

In this thread, please discuss ongoing changes to the Priest class in the Guardians of the Dream PTR.

Changes are coming in Guardians of the Dream that will have an impact on Haste in group play. Power Infusion grants you and another target 25% bonus Haste for 20 seconds, with a 2-minute cooldown. This injection of Haste significantly amplifies a few specs by a large amount when combined with their own personal cooldowns. We don’t want to take away the noticeable gameplay feel of Power Infusion, but we feel that we should reduce the value and duration of it slightly.

A few specs can stack multiple cooldowns and bonuses that really increase their damage during cooldown windows, and they also scale very well with Haste. We’re making changes to Demonology Warlocks and Unholy Death Knight talents and cooldowns to lessen the combined value of stacking everything together. This should reduce the peaks of damage output during cooldown windows, and should increase their sustained damage over the duration of a fight.

  • Power Infusion Haste reduced to 20% (was 25%) and duration reduced to 15 seconds (was 20 seconds).
  • Shadow Word: Death now deals 8% of the Priest’s maximum health in damage when it fails to kill a target instead of the backlash damage being based on damage dealt.
  • Tithe Evasion now reduces Shadow Word: Death damage dealt to the Priest by 50% (was 75%).
  • Shadow Word: Death backlash damage is now reduced by damage reduction effects.
  • Mass Dispel cooldown is now 2 minutes (was 45 seconds).
    • Developers’ note: We’re reducing the frequency that Priests have access to Mass Dispel as the value of the spell is exceeding the value of other utility at its current power level and cooldown. We’re looking to allow for more situations where magic debuffs are applied to multiple players without having a Priest trivializing the intended difficulty of the mechanics.
  • Improved Mass Dispel is now a PvP Talent and reduces the cooldown of Mass Dispel by 60 seconds (was 20 seconds).
  • Improved Mass Dispel no longer reduces the cast time of Mass Dispel.
  • Improved Mass Dispel has been replaced with Mental Agility in the Priest talent tree.
  • New Talent: Mental Agility – Reduces the mana cost of Purify, Purify Disease, and Mass Dispel by 50% and Dispel Magic by 10%.
  • Rhapsody now only highlights Holy Nova at max stacks while in combat.


The goal of these changes is to simplify Discipline’s damage rotation as well as the number of stacking modifiers used when ramping up for burst healing. This should make it smoother to play by reducing the number of abilities pressed in sequence, allowing players to focus on managing Atonement and triaging their allies instead.

  • Schism has been redesigned to be a passive talent – Now causes Mind Blast to fracture the enemy’s mind, increasing your spell damage to the target by 10% for 9 seconds.
  • Shadow Covenant has been redesigned to be a passive talent – Shadowfiend or Mindbender enters you into a shadowy pact, transforming Halo, Divine Star, and Penance into Shadow spells and increasing the damage and healing of your Shadow spells by 25% for 15 seconds (7 seconds with Mindbender).
    • Developers’ note: Shadow Covenant is another ability that must be sequenced correctly and is usually stacked with other damage modifiers. By merging this effect with Shadowfiend, we can streamline the damage rotation and make Shadowfiend a more exciting cooldown at the same time.
  • Mind Blast now has a 24 second cooldown (was 9 seconds).
  • Mind Blast damage has been increased by 30%.
  • Dark Indulgence no longer grants an additional charge of Mind Blast. Instead, Mind Blast has a 100% chance to grant Power of the Dark Side.
  • Inescapable Torment damage increased by 60%.
  • Inescapable Torment now triggers from Penance in addition to Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death.
  • Inescapable Torment is now a 1-point talent (was 2).
  • Power Word: Solace has been removed.
    • Developers’ note: Power Word: Solace has a long history, but it was another example of a short cooldown damage button that cramped the rotation, so we’re removing it.
  • Harsh Discipline no longer triggers after 4 spell casts of Smite, Mind Blast, or Power Word: Solace. Instead, Power Word: Radiance has a 30/60% chance to cause your next Penance to be free and fire 3 extra bolts.
    • Developers’ note: While Harsh Discipline was fun to play with, it added another thing you had to do before paying off on your Atonements. By triggering from Power Word: Radiance, this will now automatically happen after applying your Atonements. This will also reduce the frequency of Harsh Discipline procs, and allow regular Penance to deal more damage and healing.
  • New Talent: Sanctuary – Smite prevents the next 80% damage dealt by the enemy.
  • New Talent: Ultimate Penitence – Ascend into the air and unleash a massive barrage of Penance bolts, causing Holy damage to enemies or healing to allies over 6 seconds. While ascended, gain a shield for 50% of your health. In addition, you are unaffected by knockbacks or crowd control effects.
  • New Talent: Heaven’s Wrath – Each Penance bolt you fire reduces the cooldown of Ultimate Penitence by 2 seconds.
  • New Talent: Overloaded with Light – Ultimate Penitence emits an explosion of light, healing up to 10 allies around you and applying Atonement at 50% of normal duration.
  • Penance damage increased by 15%.
  • Penance healing increased by 30%.
  • Power Word: Barrier now reduces 20% of all damage taken (was 25%).
  • Atonement now heals for 32% of damage done (was 40%).
  • Atonement healing is now increased by 50% when not in a raid.
  • Flash Heal healing increased by 40%.
  • Power Word: Shield absorption increased by 10%.
  • Divine Aegis is now a 1-point talent (was 2).
  • Light’s Wrath, Resplendent Light, Wrath Unleashed, and Make Amends have been removed.


  • Holy Word: Serenity healing increased by 30%.
  • Flash Heal healing increased by 40%.
  • Holy Word: Salvation’s cooldown is now reduced by 15 seconds (was 30 seconds) by Holy Word: Serenity and Holy Word: Sanctify.
  • Symbol of Hope now restores 10% of missing mana (was 15%).
  • Symbol of Hope recovers 40 seconds of cooldown for a major defensive ability (was 60 seconds).
  • Holy Word: Sanctify now heals up to 5 allies (was 6).
  • Divine Star healing decreased by 25%.
  • Halo healing decreased by 15%.


  • Shadow Crash damage is now reduced beyond 5 targets.
  • Surge of Insanity now triggers from every 3 casts of Devouring Plague instead of every cast of Devouring Plague.
    • Developers’ note: The rotation has a lot going on and much of that is due to the frequency that Mind Flay: Insanity and Mind Spike: Insanity are available, so we’re adjusting the frequency of the effect.
  • Mind Flay damage increased by 10%.
  • Mind Flay: Insanity damage increased by 30%.
  • Mind Spike: Insanity damage increased by 20%.

please revert PI nerf just make it %50 effective to targeted player.

and what about pvp changes for shadow priest?

vampiric touch,voidform,dark ascension , insanity:mind spike needs to be instant

and need more buffs to sw:death, mind blast, devouring plague


2 minute cd on mass dispell with no way to lower the cd

at that point you might as well go monk, they got a better mass dispell Dx ( talking from a healer perspective )


As a holy priest main for a while now, I am thinking the RNG heavy holy priest tier set should be put away. Please blizzard, allow a tier set to IMPROVE the holy priest experience over giving us a random rng tier set again for the third time in a row in Dragonflight. Let it interact with the core ideas behind Holy priest, holy words/mastery. PLEASE stop doing these random renew/prayer of mending builds that relay so heavily on RNG. It doesn’t feel good to heal and use!

Also, if you going to stripe away all of the utility of holy priest, PLEASE give it some kind of improvement. Holy priest already had good single target in M+ and raiding, so the HARSH nerfs to things like halo/divine star is NOT the way to go around it. We are already D-tier because of our low utility…why ruin it even further and then nerf us again. Please Blizzard! Rethink these harsh nerfs and seek to improve the holy priest set with instead of relaying on rng sets, over and over.

My suggested changes:

  1. IMPROVE lightweaver! Atm flash heal does way more healing than heal and it gives you 0 reason to ever use it!

  2. Give holy priest more consistent AOE healing/lessen the nerfs to abilities such as divine star and halo

  3. Go away from RNG heavy sets to allow holy priest tier set to smoothen/better the core rotation of the holy priest or give them fun changes to their rotation to allow them a “DIFFERENCE” from with or without tier set.

Mass dispell should at least be a 1.30 min cooldown if you allow no ways of letting its CD be lessened

Thank you

1 Like

Like the disc changes make no sense atm all 10.0.5 changes with the shadow disc playstyle is in the bin with the “removal” of Mindblast. T/E and Expiation are dead talents now.

Lets continue with the worst change

  • Developers’ note: While Harsh Discipline was fun to play with, it added another thing you had to do before paying off on your Atonements. By triggering from Power Word: Radiance, this will now automatically happen after applying your Atonements. This will also reduce the frequency of Harsh Discipline procs, and allow regular Penance to deal more damage and healing.

Revert this asap nobody likes rnd procs esp as a healer. Harsh Discipline was perfect as it was nobody complained about it. It will kill our mana esp after we dont have the old tier set anymore.

Also With MD and pi nerf we need to get an interupt in the maintree now, the excuse we already have “enough” utility is completly out of the window now, Massdispell is dead(revival is better then md in dispellin and most likely also shorter CD), Mind Sooth gutted in the last Hotfix and last but not leat PI nerfed af. So our “utility” is in the bin we need something to compensate.

Overall the disc changes seem more like a nerf then anything. T/E and Expiation need reworks or removal from the tree. And the rework you did in 10.0.5 is basically removed from the game. Give us Deathspeaker from the shadow tree as a talent or something. So Expiation is not completly useless.

  1. If you nerf our utility, please give us something else. An interrupt would be great for healing priests, as well as shining force. Still don’t understand why did we lose it

  2. Harsh Discipline feels terrible because it is RNG, no healer wants it, especially in high M+. Please revert or make 100% proc, we were absolutely fine with the way it was

  3. Disc priest mobility! This is a huge deal in M+. In season 2 we had our 4-p instant radiances to cast on the move, as well as Shadow Cov or even Solace. But the 4p bonus was really the thing that saved the season for me, because it allowed me to heal my party even when I have to move (which is like ALWAYS in M+). As it goes now, priest is rooted by hardcasting everything except Penance and Mindbender (which still requires a lot of hardcasting in order to lower it’s CD). Ultimate Penitence is also a 4.7 sec hardcast. I guess it’s Ok in the raid environment, but in M+ it’s way too long, it’s the same problem as Tranquility - more often then not you must move before you can finish it.
    PLEASE PLEASE for the love of everything, give us the Instant Radiances in the talent tree, the gameplay feels so stressful and clunky without it. Almost every M+ boss with healing checks has mechanics that force healers to move all the time

  4. New 4p - Set Bonus: Smite has a 100% chance to cast an additional time during Shadow Covenant, dealing Shadow damage.
    This is terrible. The Shadow Cov window is already small, and we prio other spells in it (Mind Blast, Penance, Halo), so all we get is 2-3 extra fillers. This is way too boring and unimpactful for a 4-piece


M+ Focused Holy Priest point of view:

Many of the changes feel like Holy Priests are getting punished for Shadow’s popularity in Season 2, despite Holy Priests still being considered one of the worst performing M+ healers - despite bringing the same utility.

  • (Improved) Mass Dispel helped with our lack of group healing, be that during encounters with multiple DOTs, or bursting weeks. Please consider giving MD back to holy (or healing) priests, or improve our group healing abilities to make up for the loss.

  • Nerfing Power Infusion should go along with a significant buff of Holy Priests’ damage, ideally in a way to deal damage passively. Holy Priest damage potential already relies heavily on not having to heal, and reducing the power of PI (a passive damage source due to boosting a DPS) increases this issue.

  • General Utility concerns: Holy Priests keep getting their utility reduced, while already being underrepresented in M+. Changes like further reducing value of Mass Dispel, Symbol of Hope, Mind Soothe and PI feel very uncalled for from an M+ Holy Priest point of view.

If still going forward with these changes, please consider granting some other forms of utility as has been mentioned in this thread (i.e. Battle Rez, to be able to check one of the “must bring” checkboxes most group leaders intend next to heroism), so that it feels valuable in some way to bring a Holy Priest to your M+ run. Alternatively, please consider reverting the changes for Holy Priests specifically to not devalue them more than they already are in the community’s perception.

Thank you for reading. :slight_smile:


You don’t even need to think about the changes to DC Priest, they are very terrible.

  1. the current tier set gave an instant Radiance, which helped a lot, but the new tier set essentially does not provide any effectiveness.
  2. new dc priest gameplay makes us to spam smite…and it’s boring
    i don’t like these new changes…

This is so frustrating to have this great Quality of Life feature such as instant radiances for one tier, and then get deprived of it, feeling less powerful and fluent. It’s not about numbers, it’s about enjoying the game. I literally don’t want to play without it

1 Like

You are nerfing PI (the only potent DPS cooldown) for Shadow because Warlocks and Deathknights are too strong with it? - At least that is what your rediculous argument says.

A class that allready got nerfed before so hard that its DPS (as the ONLY DPS SPEC of the class) is now sub par with everyone else.

But you don’t stop here. You also nerf the only button that is fun to press: Insanity Mind Spike, because it does at least a bit of damage that feels rewarding.
And yes without any compensation.

But since our damage is not the reason we are still taken in M+, you basically make Mass Dispell completely unsuable with 2min cooldown. Why not just remove it? Saves at least a keybind then.

Did you notice that MD never has been an issue, and is not in classic with absolutely no cooldown?
It became one because of your abyssmally boring and uncreative Affix design where you just stack damage ontop of damage ontop of damage that no healer is capable of healing through.

None of these changes make sense or are for people who really play the game (which developers clearly do not) understandable.

And to justify the immensely dumb Insanity changes you now design a set bonus around using our execute ability outside of execute to stack yet another counter …
Borrowed powers all over again.

Yet you completely fail to address the fundamental issues the spec hast:

  1. absolutely no build diversity as every Idol is boring as heck, none of them changes the gameplay or has a fundamental impact on the class. Just another stack or proc of something ontop of 20 other things.

  2. Damage is bad but Shadow crashs cooldown is just punishing for no reason in M+. A bad pull, a bad tank and your allready bad damage goes down the drain while you try to manually dot everything with 1.5sec cast each.

  3. No group utility outside of MD (which is now gutted) and PI (which is aswell gutted) that matters at all.

It is just great to see the spec that I , after years found to have fun with again to be so utterly dumped on for absolutely no logical reason.
You just tell me you destory my spec because of other classes or bad dungeon design… how is that fair? How are you able to communicate that to me?


As Publik in the American Version of this Feedback Thread already described, the changes to Shadow appear to be self-contradicting.

Mind Flay Insanity / Mind Spike Insanity gets nerfed because there is too much button bloat whilst the set bonus introduces a the mandatory use of Shadow Word: Death & Shadow Word: Pain into the Rotation adding back button bloat.

The removal of Surge of Insanity proc is only part of the problem, as in general the shadow priest changes seem like a kneejerk reaction to the current state of Mythic Plus and might as well be described as Shadow is dying for Augmentation’s sins.

The tier set forces shadow into a Dark Ascencion build without any proper way of dealing sufficient damage beyond five targets and whilst also making the gameplay slower, less reactive and more stationary as without Void Form shadow has to stand still to DPS.

The changes to PI and MD are… well… weird. MD has existed since MoP and you made one dungeon pool where it was mandatory in 5 out of the 8 dungeons, and instead of going and fixing the dungeons you remove the unique flavor of Mass Dispell.

PI is, well whatever, for all i care for take twins of the sunpriestess out if that’s what you want to do but then buff shadow accordingly. but taking away shadows dmg cd just feels terrible.


Congratulations, disc priest will not be playable at all in arenas in 10.2.

It is bottom tier now, literally the worst performing healing spec in terms of throughput. There were so many small tweaks that could have been done to improve the spec. A lot of youtube ink wasted on this, reddit threads, official blizzard forums threads, etc. There is literally a ton of feedback floating around with very good suggestions regarding how to reduce “button bloat”… none of it was taken into consideration it seems…

None of these changes make sense for the disc playstyle and the rotation we spent time to learn and optimize.

1 Like

You have 2 alternatives!

  • Revert PI or remove PI!
  • Revert PI and only you can use PI on yourself if you think PI is too good for other classes.
1 Like

My personal feedback aimed for PvE content for Discipline;

Love the attonement for M+ and flash heal buff for disc. Cute penance and PWS shield buff too.

The new Ultimate Penitence looks cool, probably need to move closer to the boss/current trashpack to make it more effective I guess, can be a bit awkward.

Am straight up terrified for the rest…mostly

Mana regen nerf? Really? I am already struggling with my mana management in raids on higher difficulties, and that is already with rashok trinket (also gets nuked), source of magic, pots, etc.

I get the PI nerf I guess, understandable.

Shadow cov baked into shadowfiend and schism into mind blast…what?
I get it though. Ramping and sequencing your spells in the right order can be difficult, but once you know the damage patterns and rotation pretty well, it feels super rewarding when you are doing it correctly, at least for me.
I guess I have to re-learn the muscle memory for ramps, hehe

Maybe squid build for m+ will be a thing again with these changes and shadowfiend for raids, idk.

It would really help alot having mindbender/fiend off the gcd so we can burst damage more easily and react faster to unexpected healing in m+!

Mass Dispel nerf will make the bursting affix somewhat scary again for disc, I feel.

Sad to see Light’s Wrath go, I liked the mega nuke now and then in raids.

Will be harder to keep the benefits of Twilight Equilibruim since the extra charge from Mindblast was perfect for it, I guess shadow word death needs to be pressed more often to keep juggling between shadow and holy spells outside rams.

Last thing I really really hope we can somehow keep the current tier-set bonuses somehow, the instant cheaper radiance proccs were a godsent this patch for sure!

Holy burst AoE heal already is underperforming in M+, becouse Holy Word: Sanctify only hits within 10 yards. Why not making Divine Star and Halo to passive talents modifying Holy Word: Sanctify?
So it turns Holy Word: Sanctify into Holy Word: Divine Star or Holy Word: Halo, a powerfull heal CD without radius restriction.
With thousands of voids, AoEs and other positioning restrictions the small radius of Holy Word: Sanctify feels more annoying than entertaining as far as gameplay goes. Especially in pug groups with people who are not able to stay next to the heal and running away from you all the time even if you grab them.

You also should consider buffing Prayer of Healing when not in Raid and turning Divine Hymn into an instant CD with initial Heal leaving a HoT wich heals and reduces DMG taken by like 15% to solve the burst AoE healing problem of Holy Pirests in M+. With all the burst dmg coming into the grp in several globals you feel kind of helpless while channeling a 3 minute CD 8 seconds just to see ppl dying becouse it heals like nothing compared to damage income.

The nerfs to the utility of Priests in general are nonsense, I hope you recognize this by all the negative feedback you got.

Im fine with removing Improved Mass Dispel but with a 2min CD it doesn’t worth the keybind. Yeah and PI… I mean… Why not nerfing effectiveness to other targets instead of nerfing it in general?

1 Like

I really don’t understand these changes.

We have the entire left part of the tree basically not worth speccing into in m+ because: Prayer of healing isn’t worth pressing because it heals too little, lightweaver/lightwell is a bad pick because picking miracle worker/divine image gives you more healing and especially more so now in 10.2, coh doesn’t heal enough to warrant the long CD on it, you might as well just triage with flash heal instead of pressing them if you don’t have a holy word to use.

Prayer of healing needs to be buffed, immensely so. As of 10.2 a prayer of healing cast heals less than casting a flash heal. It heals for like 2% on non-tanks, roughly. Total: 60k healing per cast, ~12k per individual, not counting echo of light healing.

Casting a flash heal on the target dummy on the PTR: 51k flash heal. 18k trail of light. 10k binding heal.

One cast of flash heal, heals for 79k directly, not including echo of light.

One cast of prayer of healing, 60k directly, not including of echo light.

In the time it takes to heal every individual for 60k with prayer of healing, I could just have casted 4 flash heals on 4 separate targets instead and gotten more healing out of it, spent less mana and spent less time casting.

4 flash heals like that would heal directly for a total of 316kish healing.

4 casts of prayer of healing would heal for a total of: 240k directly. Cost more mana, more time spent casting and heals less per individual, leaving them at a higher risk of death than triaging with flash heal.

5 casts of prayer of healing would heal for a total of 300k directly. Why is it better to cast 4 flash heals, which are faster to cast and cost less mana?

Add in divine image from using a holy word and then echo of light and the disparity gets even bigger.

We need to get some spammable aoe heal for moments with heavy party-wide damage. It’s ridiculous that we’re better off triaging with single-target heals rather than pressing aoe heals when there’s party-wide damage happening because our aoe healing is so weak. It’s not even worth picking up prayer of healing or coh for m+, their low healing and in the case of CoH - long CD - doesn’t justify spending points on them.

Circle of healing needs to be buffed - it heals in current gear(446/447 geared people) levels roughly 2.5% of someone’s hp if they’re not a tank. And it has a 14 sec CD. How can we have a heal that heals 2.5% of someone’s hp and have a 14 sec cd? Even if it had no CD, it wouldn’t be worth spamming it with that low healing. I would expect some kind of oomph from a spell that has a 14 sec CD and not barely see the bar moving when pressing it.

We don’t need our already strong single-target to be buffed even more, we’re being further pushed into triaging with single-target healing when there’s party-wide damage because it’s not worth pressing our aoe heals. We need our aoe healing to be buffed so it’s actually worth speccing into it and pressing the buttons.

MD has never had such a long cooldown before, this change looks like an overreaction to how overpowered shadow priest is. It feels like everyone calls for nerfs to shadow and all these utility nerfs also affect holy/disc. We lost shining force this xp, we are also the only specs with no kick.

I’m not going to disagree that pi is a powerful cd, I disagree with the reasoning of why it’s being nerfed. You mention other classes such as unholy death knight and demo warlock scaling with haste. How is this a priest problem rather than a spec problem?

It’s great disc is being looked at and changes are being done, some not great such as solace being removed. With the buff for holy only to flash heal and serenity (not heal as well? did we forget about this spell?) why is disc getting a spell such as ultimate penance?
Disc has always been a holy and shadow based spec, to give disc a holy spell that makes you fly with big wings and immune to cc seems to be an odd decision. Holy has spirit of redemption (you literally turn into an angle, guardian spirit (you get giant wings to save someone), and even in pvp there is a talent that allows you to fly up in the air. Holy also has greater fade in pvp that makes spells miss you.

This new spell is a strange addition not only in class fantasy but also what they are trying to aim for with this new spell. We have moved away from absorb healing on disc and it being mandatory due to the pure damage reduction on barrier for them to get this new spell that is broken. Holy priest also has one of the worst 3 min raid cds in divine hymn. They don’t want priest to buff dps with power infusion but they have no qualms about holy priest buffing other healers from divine hymn healing increase. When will priest not be balanced based on other classes?

All these nerfs to holy can easily bin the spec and create a huge favor of disc only. Disc and shadow have both had changes to make the spec more engaging and fun to play, but holy has the same build in raid and an awful time in m+ content. As holy playing single target healing talents is trolling in raid and in m+ you are still a heal turret. In shadowlands holy went from a spot healing single target playstyle with flash concentration and in dragonflight we got lightweaver. Lightweaver is such a budget version of flash concentration, it’s not fun to play currently and with the new mana changes it will make it even worse since you have to spend so much more mana on flash heal compared to shadowlands. I hope you guys read the feedback threads and listen to what priest players want as well. Please don’t throw flashy spells such as ultimate penitence on a spec just to appease players.

You are absolutely right with PoH! But am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that our main aoe heal cd from the class identity mechanic (Holy Word: Sanctify) feels bad in m+ because it is restricted to a small area and doesn’t heal enough for a 1min cd?

For the most of the time in m+ you only can hit the tank and a melee and maybe yourself, but often you have pugs staying in china, you have to dodge things or the group gets separated by voids, cleave effects or something else so you arent able to actually hit your allies with THE main holy priest aoe class mechanic.

Why is no one addressing this fact? By all the tons of AoE dmg coming into the group Holy Word: Sanctify is still way behind Holy Word: Serenity if you took a look into logs. How is this possible with this huge AoE damage into the group? It’s because people can’t hit the whole group with the spell and don’t have the time to aim it to hit at least a good amount just to heal for like 60k non crit after they get 300k dmg.

If Holy Word: Sanctify would be a reliable, in all situations fast usable 1min aoe heal cd, wich actually heal ALL party members by a good amount we would have gone a huge step in the right direction and the holy word which is responsible for aoe healing would feel helpful instead of like a hindrance.

I mean, resto shamans, preservation evokers and resto druids face the same problem - people not positioning right for their heals. It’s not restricted only to holy priests.

I never said that its a holy priest specific problem. But do you think relativism is helping solve any issue of class design? Should we leave anything bad becouse other healers have bad mechanics too?

And to be fair rDruids, rShamans and Preservation Evokers are not build around these AoE heals. They have at leas alternatives. What do we have? PoH? CoH? PoM?