Feedback: Priests

I just don’t think it’s an issue that they’re going to do something about, given how people can just position themselves better.

They could do something like this:

And sure, they won’t improve it if nobody say something about it, becouse they think everything is fine with Holy Word: Sanctify.

Why do i feel like this should be posted in every other “feedback: class” forum section other than the priest one. Or what exactly do you expect from priests to give feedback on?
Oh ye man, great change…i did feel like i have too much haste for too long.” or “damn im glad that they nerfed my major dps cooldown because unholy dk and demo warlock are doing too much damage.

Like literaly…wall of text and not a single word about priests itself. This nerf is also affecting us. We are all insanely TIRED!! of PI and its consequenses on our class because of performance of other classes… please for the billionth time!! self cast only or remowe!

This right here is the most brutal nerf ive ever seen any utility spell receiving. And its purely based on pve, dungeon pools and performance in PREVIOUS season that will be irrelevant.
Its unbeliveable. It will completely mess up the pvp niche of shadow, which you even acknowledged by making improved md a pvp talent.

1min cd on mass dispell is still useless.
Not reducing cast time making the spell - useless…you wont be able to cast it ever.
Making it a pvp talent which is already crowded with too many options we need making it - useless. No more dispelling iceblocks or fiftheen pala bubles, no more cc dispells on your healer…the spell is dead.

Priest had a very niche, rarely used utilities in form of MD, mind soothe and shackle undead.

Shackle is useless aside from incorporeal afix and will remain useless next season aswell.

MD was nerfed to oblivion and will be useless aside from maybe some 1-2 rare cases or bursting week -but even that will be unreliable.

Mind soothe was neefed to oblivion. It was already restricted by mob type and now its restricted by stealth detection aswell. So on top of niche cases that you could actualy use it, now it has so many catches that it will be, lets be real here, useless once again after one season.

So exactly what utility we bring? PI, MD, MS, SU gutted. No relevant kick, no stun, no cc, no lust, no combat ress, no knockback, now even low dps, no mobility no nothing…
edit: ive forgot vampiric embrace. Also nerfed multiple times to make sure its irrelevant.

Why are those “intentionaly difficult” mechanics a magic debuff then? Like is your encounter developer team from final fantasy or what is going on? You didnt know that mass dispell or revival exists? You dont know your own game? Md is in priesr kit since what…vanila? tbc? why are we now sending suprised pikachu face that priest can mass dispell a magic dot?..

5 Likes

My comments on Schism/SCov for the devs.

There’s a power difference between Schism (+10%) and SCov (+25% plus shadow bonuses) that I would like to see made more even, toward the goal of having a simpler rotation. Let’s assume they were equal in power - say 18% each. Now when I’m handling encounters of various difficulties I can decide whether I want to spend none, one or two of the buffs. It’s a simple three-step power system - 0% buff, 18% buff, 35% buff.

This system would let players make a straightforward decision at a given moment. 0% for trash up to 35% for “full healer check”. It also has the interesting quality that I can choose whether to stack them or use them sequentially.

As it is today, I’m not sure I’d ever say “hmm, I only need a 10% buff for this situation”, which makes Schism just something I use on rotation rather than intelligently.

As for comments on other talents, I’m sure these have been said already: 1) TE seems like it needs refinement given the reduced spell roster, and 2) I worry that the mass dispel changes remove a chunk of priest utility with nothing added to compensate, especially as PI has been nerfed too.

1 Like

Regarding Shadow, the nerf to its own Power Infusion is unnecessary. Taming PI as an external is great for the game, but it seems over the top to include Shadow in that. Additionally, reducing the duration feels very bad as the original 20 sec duration is the same as Dark Ascension’s duration. Twins should already allow you to tune the power of PI as an external without hitting the casting Priest as well so please utilize it.

Rotation bloat is a subjective feeling in my view so I understand your change to Surge of Insanity, but I think every 3rd cast is too much. If you play the Distorted Reality talent, increasing the duration of Devouring Plague to 12 seconds, you have to refresh the dot early to ever get a second stack of Surge and prolong the duration of the first one. Granted, that’s not an issue when playing a Dark Ascension build, but in testing on the PTR, when playing a Void Eruption build, while in Voidform, I often feel there isn’t really room to fit in a Mind Spike: Instanity/Mind Flay: Insanity cast before the proc runs out. Either increasing the duration of the Surge buff, triggering Surge from every 2 casts of DP, or even just reverting the change completely would feel nicer in my opinion. And please add some kind of tracking for what DP cast you’re on before the next Surge proc.

On the tier set, I think both the 2-set and the 4-set bonuses are pretty good to play with. It’s very nice to have Shadow Word: Death be a meaningful cast again. Buffing Shadow Word: Pain with the 4-set does feel a little weird, but it’s nice to have another movement global. However, as this tier set synergizes so well with Mindbender and Inescapable Torment, both abilities that along with Shadow Word: Death and the on-hit damage of Shadow Word: Pain are buffed by Dark Ascension, I hope you are proactive in your tuning so we don’t end up with only one of Dark Ascension or Void Eruption being competitive. With the nerfs to Shadow in Season 2 and the loss of our current tier set, Void Eruption seems like it needs some love.

I am also a little worried that random Deathspeaker (and Shadowy Insight to a lesser extent) procs are going to be too powerful because of how quickly you can stack up the 4-set and how long you can prolong a Mindbender, compared to what you can do without any procs.

Lastly, I understand your desire to do something about Mass Dispel, but unless Season 2 brought along some dungeon design philosophy change going forward with a litany of very deadly magic debuffs throughout the dungeon pool, I think you’ll revert the change some time in the future, and I really hope you also realize that it restrains you to some extent in raid boss design.

2 Likes

Disc player here

Liking:

  • Power of the Darkside proc change. It felt great having agency over this in SL, will be great to have that back.

  • Sanctuary Smite damage reduction. Damage reduction was only recently taken away from MindBlast. Good to get something like this back. Thematically appropriate for Disc especially.

  • Flash Heal buff. nuff said.

  • PI nerf. Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I’d sacrifice this cd’s power for a bit more general power.

Not Liking:

  • Harsh Discipline regression. It feels good to stack this off dmg casts. RNGing off Radiance suuuuucks.

  • Ultimate Penance is kickable. CCable I could understand. But really, just an instant boop and an angel falls from the sky?..

  • Solace was castable while moving. Give it back.

  • Schism was one of our few shadow casts. Helped tie our whole spellbook together to play Twilight Equilibrium.

  • MindBlast regression. 24sec?? This was also tying TE together, and making Expiation a thing. We’re basically just gonna be spamming Smite. Very un-fun.

Reasons to Stop Playing:

  • Mass Dispel nerf. This spell is vital for pvp priest healers. There is nothing in 10.2 for holy/disc that comes close to replacing its utility. Not to mention how badly broken 100% defensives like bubble and Ice Block need some kind of counter.

  • Shadow Covenant rework is about the worst thing that could happen to this spec in arena. The only thing carrying disc’s defining ability (Atonement) in pvp was our ability to rotate schools with this stance button.

1 Like

WTF is with these awful disc changes? Seriously blizz? We just smite bots now? I like having buttons to press… making everything rng is going to murder this spec.

Keep harsh dicipline as it is currently. Dont remove 2 stacks of mind blast, solace and schism. T/E lined up with harsh penace and shadow covenant hit and heal great very rewarding as it stands.

No one uses lights wrath so defo remove that junk.

5 Likes

pls blizzard if anyone reads this revert these changes they are horrible the gameplay is super bad and dont even makes sense. twilight equalibrim? lol nice ultimate talent now. schism? for 10 years on my bars.gone. solace?gone. shaddow covenant? gone. pls are u kidding me?? just accept the fact that this spec isnt for anyone who doesnt commit 100% to it.
its super well designed in its current form and bonkers fun. yeah the playnumbers are bad for disc but the people who play it now enjoy having a challenge in videogames. i beg u revert it

2 Likes

I can only agree with that, the way they decided to change Power Infusion was not the right one, because the problem is the class that receives the PI, not the Priest themselves.

That’s why I would also ask the developers to reconsider this, I would like the Haste buff to remain the same for Priests, and for that the PI of the recipient is adjusted.

It gives Shadow a good feeling when you use your Power Infusion with your other cooldowns. And for Discipline and Holy, it is an important part of the utility kit, after Mind Soothe and Mass Dispel have already been nerfed. It should also be noted that Discipline and Holy already have a disadvantage compared to other healers because they do not have an interrupt.

Also on the topic of Mass Dispel, I would like to briefly point out again that an ability could only become so important because it was decided that way in the encounter/dungeon design. That’s why I think we can also find a good balance here with a 1-minute cooldown and a moderate use of Magic Dispels on the entire group.

I also see the new T-Set for Shadow a little critically, I like the interaction with Mindbender, because I find it pretty cool when a pet goes berserk. But this set naturally leads to so much happening during Dark Ascension again that new Priests will have problems with it. Which of course makes the change with MF:I absurd again. Also the fact that Shadow Word: Pain has to be pressed again in single target, doesn’t feel good or sensible. One could simply consider that the buff enhances another ability that also occurs in the single target rotation. The same problem applies to Shadow Crash, of course we have a better way to cast Instant/Burst AoE with the buff again, but I see this critically again, especially in the Mythic Plus environment, since you need the ability already to spread your dots. That means you will have to use your Shadow Crash sooner or later, even though you have only collected a maximum of 6 stacks, because you have to apply the dots to the targets again. What I think is good, however, is that the stacks have a good runtime of 60 seconds to prevent them from running out between pulls.

I can only join my predecessors in considering giving Priest an additional DPS spec, that would probably give many more flexibility for raiding and M+. But of course that’s only something for a new expansion.

3 Likes

Been testing Disc, Shadow & Mistweaver on the PTR the whole day. Open world, dungeons and raid. And damn does priest feel like it’s been put in the gutter, it’s brutal. Not only is priest power level decreased but also a big nerf to gameplay. Current Disc feels fun, good and you have something to press for most scenarios. On PTR it feels clunky, slow, immobile and borderline boring not having any cool buttons to press anymore.

In dungeons the power level between Disc Priest and Mistweaver is like night and day. Ofc mistweaver got some dangers to think about being in melee but atleast its buttons do something when you press them. Disc just feels underwhelming and with both wings of DoTI requiring alot of movement it feels so bad without instant radiance. Also played a key with bursting and god damn how bad Priest is without mass dispell.

Same with the raid, tested both bosses today and what is written in these changes is that you want to make the ramp simpler, its not the rotation when casting the dmg spells that’s hard. The hard part is keeping atonements on 20 people without having any real way of extending them except for Evangelism every 1,5 min. Give us back the SL legendary where Rapture atleast extend the atonements if you want to make it more viable in raid. Ultimate Penitence looks cool but could be discs answer to Spirit of Redemption instead since it’s really not a good ability with both long casttime and cooldown. It feels way more rewarding when setting up atonements and getting nice numbers from properly executing the rotation.

Shadow felt decent in both raid and dungeon. It does some dmg still even though the potential of suiciding to SWD is overhanging.

Finally instead of calling it a rework it should be called for what it is, a massive nerf to the class overall and with that suggest people that wanna have fun playing the game to instead reroll to another class.

1 Like

After a good night sleep I’ve come up with some constructive ideas regarding the spec of Discipline.

First of all make Schism & Shadow Covenant choice nodes and let us players decide if we want to keep the buttons or not.

Second of all with this change there needs to be a talent node connected to the Schism choice that puts Mind Blast at a lower power level but with 2 charges like on current, could possibly add a feature with CDR for the ability per shadow spells cast during ShadowCov window.

Third you could make Power Word: Radiance instant cast a capstone node somewhere in the tree, maybe competing with another node that extends the duration for atonements that could be used for raid scenarios.

with regards
real_sLr

1 Like

God i love forums :joy: :innocent:

Anyway disc changes are moving in a cool direction for sure but there are several issues.

  • TE and Expiation are basically talents that dosnt work with this new disc itteration cuz of the loss of double mindblast and schism as a standalone shadowspell.
  • Ultimate pentinance AKA Uppies is just bad atm cast time and channel time is way to long even with the rly cool animation. Currently its also way to weak tuning wise as just doing a normal ramp dmg rotation will do more healing then using the 4 min cooldown as your dmg in the ramp.
  • Mindbender and shadowfiend honestly cool idea removing scov as a button and putting it with the pets but with how the talents are looking mindbender is a hardlock talent forever with this design as it will just always provide a massive scov uptime compared to shadowfiend
  • Mindblast having schism+guaranteed 50% more penance dmg honestly a great change to the spec nothing much to say there except that the expiation interaction dosnt rly work anymore with this spell becoming a longer cooldown 1 charger.
  • HD being back to RNG is honestly just annoying and i would prefer the old version stacking it with smite but i do understand why you made the RNG way to buff baseline penance insted.
    Suggestions
  • To fix the bender shadowfiend thing with scov you could always just remove schism and put the schism power in to shadow covenant insted and make Mindblast trigger shadowcovenant insted. This would remove Mindbender being a forced permanent talent and allow us to pick pet dependent on fight timers insted of mindbender being the only option.
  • Te and expiation tbh just needs a rework in to something els as both those talents dosnt rly work in the new direction you are taking disc.
  • Ultimate pentinence AKA Uppies :)) Needs a major buff for it to be a justified 4 talent point spender as currently it is just waaaaaay to weak and is losing to me pressing smite and penance. Could also go with a gameplay change and removing the cast time of the spell so we instantly start channeling it and wont be locked for a solid 5-6 seconds and more like 4 seconds.
  • To make HD feels less RNG maybe we could bring back the beta version of HD where atonement ticks gave you HD? Or just bring back the old version as disc has a lackluster performance on the PTR atm
  • Buff atonement transfer you guys went way to low with it and disc is just suffering for it in raids atm (Great change giving us a 5 man atonement tuning knob for keys tho finally!!)
  • Nerf holy nova for disc! This change was never intended for us in the first place and is just forcing us in to melee in the middle of our ramp casting rotation and the gameplay is just dumb especially as holy nova hits harder then some of our best spells lmao on Single target. Put holy novas power in to something els in our kit.

A great thing about Penance is that it is castable on the move. Why can’t we cast Ultimate Penance on the move? That would be great in M+, where rarely can we afford to stand still for more than couple seconds

2 Likes

Ok, so after the latest changes:

There’s no intent to fix holy priest for m+.

Time to reroll.

I like the direction of the rework and the ‘pruning’ of the rotational abilities!

However, you are creating 2 major issues:

  • Making Harsh Discipline be RNG is a bad idea. Preparing Harsh Discipline was part of our ramp/preparation for incoming damage. Tying it to casting radiance is a great idea to simplify the rotation but making it RNG essentially makes it unattractive as a talent. It’s a 2-point dump for something that MIGHT increase my hps when it matters, and if this is actually worth 2 points then the rest of the talents on that row must be too undermining. Please make the talent 50/100% ( if you want to keep it 2 points) chance to proc it upon radiance cast. This would also fit in with the design of your most recent design philosophy where you said you want to put more power into Penance and “to nudge Discipline a bit closer towards consistent damage”.

  • It feels as if you are not giving adequate compensation for the loss of the tier 4-set instant PW:Radiance. One of Disc’s biggest weaknesses is having to ramp/heal effectively while moving. The 10.2 Disc Priest design relies on casting heavily, as being able to stand and cast many smites & penance on cooldown during covenant will become very rewarding. Having to move/stop casting will thus ALREADY greatly reduce our throughput, and this is now compounded by the loss of the instant radiance which currently feels incredibly good to play, especially in M+. Since Holy is HEAVILY favoured in raid and Discipline mostly sees play in M+, I think it should be a priority to address this.

Cheers guys.

2 Likes

I think it’s perfect time to make Enduring Luminescence talent give instant radiances
We need an option for high mobility fights PLEASE PLEASE

3 Likes

Personnally, I like the direction the small Disc rework took originally, BUT I don’t like the latest announcement.

I don’t get the principle of having mindbender just being a “shorter CD Shadowfiend”, at least for PvP.

Imho, it makes the choice of heavily commit to a mindbender really questionable since there is kind of a trade off between shadowfiend and mindbender. Putting point in an ability which will significantly lessen the buff brought by Shadow Covenant does not make sense.

I even think that at this point, mindbender and Shadow Covenant might even swap place in the tree.

I’d largely prefer a mindbender that is much less of an enhancement of shadowfiend, but this enhancement comes with no trade off.

E.G, mindbender starts by being a 30s shorter shadowfiend with just better damages but not so much (like 10% more than shadowfiend).

Then you can spec into Shadow Covenant, which gives like 20% (not 10 like new PTR iteration). Then you spec into shortened CD, and then Shadow Covenant buff or something.

But be forced to go at the deepest in the tree just to get mindbender which triggers a 10% shadow Covenant every minute rather than a 25% shadow covenant every 3 min, that’s really a questionable move and a lot of investment for a VERY VERY small gain.

Last but not least, the note stating that burst shall be lowered for more sustained damage is also not a good idea, at least for PvP (maybe it is PvE oriented).

Season 1 definitely proved that players don’t like to play against a constantly pressuring Disc Priest. I’d rather have weak damage 90% of the time but very potent burst the remaining 10%, than 50/50 with medium to quite high.

Note to Developer: If your sentence starts with “it was fun to play with…” you have revealed even you think your own change is not fun.

3 Likes

My thought on priest on the PTR so far:

Holy:
-I don’t like the renew set of the holy priest:
Renew was allways a bit a weird spell, since the mastery stat came along.
It has very bad synergy with mastery and since holy priest became to evolve strongly all around the echo master, it put renew in a very bad spot.
You could play around renew heavily with going more for haste and versa but it was seldom worth it, since you needed to play around your holy words and cdr as well.
I just feel like having a set bonus that targets renew doesnt feel that great. It also doesnt change your playstyle one bit. You still press mending and prayer, and well and get passive renew procs and thats pretty much it. I feel like there were old priest sets, that were quite more interessting, synergetic and more versatile than that one.
Maybe add in a singeltraget component? Than just yay even more aoe spam.

-I’m also not looking foreward to play more with epiphanie: since if there is real heavy groupdmg and you need to top ppl fast, the ideal thing you would like to be doing ist to stack up 2 sanctifys and rapsody and hit them into the group as fast as possible. do i wanna wait and see if a get a mending proc in that clutch situation? Not really. I might get me more hps further along, but my job is not to let anyone die. So the right choice would be to delay the mending for one more global with more life saving quality and immediate healing.

-Also what really desturbs me quite some time is the way holy looses out on future heal if you hit those dmg buttons. You dont just trade heal for dmg in that moment. but you loose very valuable cdr for the next big dmg income. which often keeps us from maximizing dmg output as a healer. Since you never know if you would have just needed that additional sanctify… The proccs on the holy words also sometimes feel a bit cluncky. The procs come when you dont want them and are not there when you need them. Since the mana management becomes more important. Would i be in a spot where i dont wanna spend the mana to hit the additional holy word and the procc is just for nothing. I mean if the fight duration is like you can only use 2 salvs anyway. why bother. Could feel bad not beeing able to make use of it.

Disc:
-I like the removal of the button bloat. This is great! And not to remove spells but to converge them into one i really like.
-What i do not like is that both “on the move” spells like penance and shadow word: death are now mandatory to be on cooldown at all times to reduce mindbender.
Witch leaves you with no on the move spell while moving at all, ecept for wicked spam.
-Why would you make it so that the valuable on the move buttons need to be hit as soon as they come of cooldown? Cant you put the effect on sth else?

-I can also see myself die to ultimate pentinence all the time…
You get into the air sb drops a voidzone under you, you cant move, ypu land and you die…
So a spell that should be a emergency button and help you negetate bad stuff becomes a potential deathtrap. especally if you play with casuals and yes they will drop sth under you. I’d much more prefer if you could channel whilst moving. So you wouldnt feel so much like a sitting duck.

-The last issue for me that you really get punished as disc in movement heavy fights where you cant sit and smite. No smite no CDR on bender. So you loose out even more. which makes you potentially even weaker on movement heavy bosses. Or you might end up risking your life since you have to push the cd, because your responible for healing the next big hit. It also makes coordinating healtimings even more diffiult if you get mechanics beforehand and you can reduce the cd as much as you should have.

I really like playing priest, and i will be fine next content no matter what. but i still feel that a lot of the issues still persist and are not solved. furthermore more issues are added with required CDR pushing, proccs and spells that are mandatory to use in rota rather than adaptive usage.

Thank you for your consideration.

1 Like

Why do you some of you want less? if there are buttons you don’t use don’t put them on your bar ffs.

I wont be playing a gutted lazy player version of disc.