Feedback: Priests

Some more feedback on Discipline after playing a bit more on PTR (although so far it seems that devs only read the US version of this post):

Harsh Discipline being tied to Power Word: Radiance (PW:R) actually feels bad and extremely nerfed. You now get fewer Harsh Discipline procs during content. I get that you intended for this, but since you are anyway promoting a smite-heavy gameplay style you could have done nothing about it and it would have been fine because most people would have triggered it anyway just by playing the class. Having to dump 2 talent points in this RNG talent is now terrible, and we might be forced to since our capstone talents are kind of dead right now (EDIT: Aegis and Twilight Equilibrium are the ones seeing some play right now, but Twilight Equilibrium will not be played anymore in 10.2 because you took mind blast away and we don’t have enough spells to cast to properly juggle it. Weal and Woe does not see play, and Mindbender and Overloaded with Light will depend on tuning but right now I see most people running fiend > mindbender with recent changes).

I cannot explain the underlying issue here, but purely from gameplay perspective, the cooldowns timings feel frustrating. Most of the time during a key when mindbender/fiend comes off CD I do not have mindblast available and I have to wait so I can use all my abilities together.

I understand you wanted to address the button bloat but actually there is nothing to cast now except smite (and penance on cooldown). It is not interactive, more ‘classical’ healers have more complex rotations and more spells to cast outside of cooldowns (e.g. holy priest outside of cooldowns have two holy word spells, circle of healing, prayer of mending, prayer of healing and flash heal, all of which are actively used) while disc has mind blast every 24s and then smite with the occasional penance outside of shadowfiend.

Movement fights feel horrible to play as not being able to smite spam, especially while my shadowfiend/mindbender is out, feels terrible and puts me behind in healing on the long-term as I now have a longer time before my next shadowfiend. Not having instant radiances adds to this and it feels bad to play. At least before if I messed up a ramp I could still do my next one properly and in time.

Thanks!

1 Like

DF seemed to start off pretty well for Disc, what happened?
Read Linxy’s most recent PTR updates for Disc and I’ve honestly given up hope at this point.

Very clear that no thought is being given to the pvp implications of these changes.
All of the problems Disc currently faces are due to nerfs imposed after DF launch.
Bubble build completely dismantled in prior rework. Atonement build output gutted.

Priest Feedback threads in both regions are full of Disc players begging the devs not to tie Harsh Discipline to Radiance. So latest update ties priest to burning both charges of Radiance.

Regarding shadow priest and the most recent changes as of today:

I would like to suggest some “quick” and doable changes (from a dev perspective) that would affect the gameplay for better, I think:

-Shadow Crash baseline. SC talent +1 charge and -dmg (More enjoyable and more versatile dmg profile)
-Max t31 stacks = 13/15 → Max used stacks = 9/11 (The tier bonus feels very weird and clunky in many situations. This change would make it feel less clunky, more versatile, and fit way better in our rotation since stacking to 12 is sometimes way too much)
-PI good for us, Priests (Class defining spell)
-t31 usable at 25% (In a lot of content it is very difficult to target and cast SWD fast enough to even get one cast off, not to mention two.)

I feel like this + the latest ptr changes would make for a solid and fun Spec to play.

Adjust numbers so it’s balanced, of course.

Priest: Shadow / M+ mostly. I raid on my warlock more seriously. Shadow has been my alt but I play more on it since it’s season of Shadow kek

Priest PI shouldn’t be a 15 second CD, back to roots of classic Wrath etc? Penalizing priest further for the sins of classes like Dk’s and Demo locks in 2023? Cmon, Im sure you can come up with better ideas than that. Not only cutting the uptime from PI but also bonus haste? That must me a joke, right? Revert PI changes.

If we are going to be using Shadow word: Death all over the place, why the

changes like this take place? You want us to have a mini “surrender to madness” semi feeling and execute us as we stand?
I can’t even begin to understand why MD had to be nerfed so much, when it’s all about m+ pool that has put in on the pedestal this time around. Someone is probably not looking at other seasons and usefulness of that spell lol :rofl:

Shadow crash needs to have 2 charges or needs to be back to what it used to be which is, it’s CD is haste based. So it’s not flat. There is too much mismanagement in m+ or even bugs in the game, that sometimes send that Crash into the cosmos (camera angle in certain spots lol) for it to be so punishing if you don’t connect it with the mobs.

There aint no button bloat on shadow priest rn. So don’t use this formula to explain why you needed to nerf surge of insanity. Because it aint no changing the way SP deals dmg. You still press that button and press it again over and over, no matter if it glows or not, so unlucky, your reasoning here is out of place.
Lastly, I want to say with my serious face:

This was the only SEASON I had fun as shadow as it was playable spec in the m+
Thank you for doing what you do best, which is gut things out. Balance should be done carefully and not with a hammer.

Shadow priest was over the top, md needed to be nerfed somehow and maybe you are right it was extemely usefull in this dungeon pool and not in S3, but it had to be nerfed. For the record shadow is still competitive. But it will be a melee season this time around.

Disc is looking good, but there are a few things worth noting:

Priest changes
It’s absurd that priest still has no kick. The original argument was “you have PI, soothe and mass dispel”. Soothe has been nerfed, MD now has a 2 minute cooldown and PI (for reasons nobody understands) has been nerfed not only for the target, but for the priest as well.

Base PI talent should be self cast only. Twins should be reworked so that it grants PI to an ally at 75% effectiveness. Every priest takes both talents anyway.

Our baseline utility has been completely gutted this expansion (RIP shining force). An acceptable change would be to give us an interrupt as compromise.Alternatively, Discipline should continue to provide more DPS than other healers as a compromise to their limited utility.

Psychic Scream should become a targeted spell that fears the target and enemies in the usual radius. Forcing us to run into melee to CC, when we are already slow and squishy, is not rewarding gameplay. This was acceptable 20 years ago but not in 2023, in dungeons with adds that cleave and do frontals 24/7.

Discipline changes

Instant radiance
Instant radiance was a massive QOL change. Priest is historically an immobile class, so having a means to heal on the move was a legitimate improvement to the overall play style.

I’m assuming they’re holding back on adding this as a talent as it would be too powerful.

A choice talent could be added that either:
-Reduces overall cast time/gives additional healing
OR
-Allows instant casts but with reduced healing and atonement duration.

Idk, but removing this is almost as depressing as losing Soul Shape.

Twilight equilibrium
Garbage talent now Mind Blast has become a longer CD with a single charge. Replace it with my Radiance idea above.

4 Likes

my feedback as a priest main for 18 years

the current state of priest is outdated, it is in need of more utility first of all
i do understand that it is hard to balance with PVP but priest being the only healer with no interrupt makes it very toxic playing with other people, since we are the ones being blamed for not having a interrupt/silence.
i do understand that mass dispel, mind soothe and power infusion was to strong cause of wrong dungeon design/class scalings.
nerfing priest for it, is not the right decision atleast not without giving any utility back.
disc at the current state can not help team members in m+ handle any kind of interactions with packs. all we have is a fear every 45s and beside that we are a 3 button rotation bot just healing and dealing damage, comparing with other healers having so many options it feels very confusing.
the entire rework has failed so far by losing our tier set ( instant radiances )
the entire disc tree doesn’t harmonize together…
Twilight equilibrium has become low value
Expiation became low value so has harsh discipline become weird to play around.
lenience should become a passive, dont nerf power infusion just nerf twins of the sun priestess. make our tier set ( instant radiance ) a talent, let us skill into silence
consider giving more classes a combat rezz, mass dispel being 1min CD should be nerf enough 2 min feels to much,luminous barrier needs alot of love too.
this is my personal opinion about priest healer with a lifetime of experience, i do love the game and i just want a fair balancing being able to enjoy the game and my class, not being forced to reroll to a class that is not enjoyable only to be able to play the game in the first place. i know there will always be a specc/class that will be stronger than other speccs/classes but dont make the difference so drastic please

2 Likes

i love the idea with psychic scream.
agree to all the points, very good feedback

1 Like

Great job on the recent shadow nerfs! At this speed of nerfs coming every week you can jest delele Shadow as a whole when 10.2 releases. Keep it up

So I guess at this point it’s fair to assume that the intention for Shadow in 10.2 is that we ought to be near the bottom in terms of single target performance (this time with Power Infusion adding a much smaller amount of effective damage to the Priest) and possibly the absolute bottom spec in AoE performance.

Last week, the 4pc interaction with Shadow Crash was buffed to 100% per stack, up from 50%. I assume that change was made in an attempt to boost the spec’s AoE performance, but clearly there was an oversight in that the change, combined with the nerf to the 4pc interaction with Shadow Word: Pain, made Shadow Crash by far the go-to option in single target situations too. So now you completely revert the change to Shadow Crash with no compensating changes, meaning the spec has effectively lost AoE damage compared to two weeks ago as the new nerf to the 2pc results in less Psychic Link damage too.

I can only think that the direction this spec is being taken in is a gross overreaction to the situation you created with the absolute disaster of a Mythic+ meta in the current season. The magnitude of the spec’s utility nerfs + the complete neutering of its damage amounts to a spec with no valuable niche and without any aspect of PvE gameplay that it excels at.

I guess this is the clearest way you can tell your Shadow Priest playerbase that you are not sure where to take the spec currently and you would prefer if we just don’t play it.

1 Like

Shadow Priest Feedback

I don’t know how to put my thoughts into fancy words, but the direction Shadow Priest has gone into ever since the rework has gotten more and more depressing, the things we gained from the rework were swiftly nerfed time and time again to the point where they barely exist anymore and we’re back to what it was before.

Psychic Link was a decent source of AoE, allowing us to be good at split cleave with a proper amount of burst, and giving us the ability to deal on-demand AoE damage alongside our already decent capacity to do single target damage to priority targets. It then was nerfed repeatedly, leaving Psychic Link to be a much smaller part of our damage share that doesn’t really feel like it contributes a lot anymore and is just kind of “there” instead of being our unique, cool AoE thing.

Dark Ascension was promised to be a gameplay-changing cooldown that was going to be iterated on, but even now going into 10.2, it is still just a button that gives you a damage buff. It doesn’t do anything else. As it stands, it’s extremely underwhelming to press in terms of “do I like pressing this button?”

And yet, we keep being forced to pick it, the things that go towards Void Eruption playstyle kept getting nerfed baseline because they would be too powerful with a temporary tier set, then they ended up not being buffed again to compensate. The biggest of which is Shadowy Apparitions, everyone knows them as our beloved army of ghosts that we send out, and the main driving point of playing Void Eruption.
If Shadowy Apparitions get nerfed, Void Eruption tends to go down in value heavily alongside it because Void Bolt allows you to spawn more of them. Since Void Eruption does not give you a proper, baseline damage increase outside of Void Bolt, it relies on this synergy to shine.
(Just as a reminder, Shadowform gives +10% damage dealt, and Voidform REPLACES Shadowform’s 10%, so your spells deal the same amount of damage.)

Shadow has been nerfed numerous times on a baseline level to validate tier power, but then tier power gets nerfed and we end up in a worse state than before and it’s genuinely unfun, every nerf to the base spec/talents makes us feel less like a Spec, being reliant on our Tier alone to drive up the value of very specific points and leaving the rest far behind in the dust is not fun, especially because we already have the two established playstyles. Driving one of them out near completely is dissatisfying to a lot of players who like the one style more than the other.

On that note, the inevitable thing to bring up as well:

Power Infusion

I think everyone understands that some specs reliance on Power Infusion isn’t okay, and the power gained by the individual that we end up pressing Power Infusion on isn’t either. The nerfs recently (-5 second duration and -5% Haste) however, were not exactly happily taken either.
If you wish to reduce the amount of power that an ally gains through the use of Power Infusion, buff Twins of the Sun Priestess to make the Priest receive the 20 second 25% Haste version. As it stands, playing with our main cooldown, Dark Ascension, which has a 20 second duration, Power Infusion ends 5 seconds earlier than Dark Ascension, which gameplay wise feels a little bizarre. It would be really appreciated if this could be reconsidered.

I really wish there was more communication, thoughts or just any sort of feedback that we can actually work with, shadow priests have been very vocal through trusted community voices but it feels like all the feedback goes into the void and just disappears, and I truly hope we can manage to find a way to come together and make a spec that we all enjoy a lot work properly instead of keep going down a bad design road that leaves nobody happy. There’s a whole community out there that is willing to help out, we have podcasts, we have lots of feedback, of course a lot of people are split on what they want shadow to be because we’ve had so many different iterations of it, but as long as we have some form of communication we could probably find a decent way to make people happy. What is happening currently is in a really strange position where it neither fuels our gameplay to be better, nor makes us a viable spec in terms of Utility OR Damage.

Please, the community is pleading, try to work with us, we want our spec to be fun, we really do. There’s feedback all around in NA and EU forums, we just need to find a point where we can come together on these ideas and iterate something properly.

4 Likes

i can only agree with all my shadow friends. the classdesign has many flaws and the only thing that we had going was the tierset who is now in the dumpster.

also im just posting to add my voice in hope smt might change but im not very optimistic about that

So, game devs what are we supposed to do? There is no communication and the only thing we are seeing week after week are nerfs. The spec already felt bad to play dmg wise one week ago. Now it feels pointless. Class tree is a mess, spec tree has less flexibility than 10.0, most talents feel underwhelming with poor tuning.

You reworked Shadow Priest in 10.1 and wanted Psychic Link to be our aoe, it started at 40% , now its at 15%. Our dots do no dmg anymore due nerfs. Apparitions are extremely weak and weaker next patch without tier set. Our next tier set favours ST build without giving us pretty much any AoE. How im supposed to do AoE in m+ or raid when my entire kit is undertuned because you are unable to tune?

Going into 10.2 we are getting some baseline nerfs to the base spec and tree to make room for our new tier set. So once that tier set its gone the baseline spec is going to be even worse? This is pretty much the only spec that is getting talents nerfs to make room for tier set. Whats the point? I dont expect you to buff anything, we ve already seen that this ptr cycle. We lose apparitions tier set but the nerfs are still there.

Why did Shadow PI get nerfed? You gave us a big long post explaining the nerf for other specs and even reworking those specs so they dont feel bad for not having it, but we get our own PI nerfed? Without any bufff?

Shadow Priest is already decent-below average in raid scenarios, and its going to start into next tier WEAKER and our tier is not even gonna help with this. I thought that without drain mechanic the class would be easier to design, but i guess that wasnt the problem. It always end up unfinished, unpolished and forgotten til next xpac. I guess the cycle starts again. I hope at least next xpac beta, you wont forget about us til the last two weeks of beta to tell us you wont do another good job and we should wait for x.1 to get another rework mid xpac to try to fix things but dont continue the job.

dear devs i swear you have the same knowledge how this game works as i do

zero :frowning:

1 Like

There is no sugarcoating it.

PI nerf I don’t think I need to address anymore, it has all been said already.

Mindsooth no longer has any effect on creatures that can detect invisibility. If only there was another way to nerf this spell, for example, it could only affect humanoids or dragonkin.

Mass dispel, I’m completely honest, in the rat league I play in, we never really needed that spell, it was useful but not required.

Ok so after we killed the “GOD COMP UTILITY” can we have our damage back?

Let’s be real the first nerf in Season 2 was justified maybe even the second one, what do I know. But the rest after that was just full pepega. I mean in typical Blizzard fashion you used a cleaver where a scalpel was needed and it’s not like it’s your own fault that you’re making it so hard to balance this godforsaken class.

I mean psychic link once sat at what? 40%, 35%? WE ARE NOW AT 15%!!!

Who could have thought that it could be problematic, if your single target damage is also your AOE, I mean who could have guessed that?

And then you have the balls to nerf the new set because it seems too strong but don’t even think about buffing the base class that you’ve hammered over several updates. Also don’t get me started on the whole Shadow Crash fiasco, what ever that was.

Transparency and communication my butt, is it so hard to just say: “Yo, dear community we think the set is too strong therefore we nerf it. Oh and btw PW:GFY, play something else”.

At least DICE had the balls to spit in the community’s face, You guys can’t even manage to update the feedback thread YOU created with all the changes or rather nerfs.

Of course, I could have sat down and given constructive feedback.

But why should I? We’ve reached a point where there’s a higher chance that NASA will find life on Mars before Blizzard even begins to respond to Priest’s feedback. In any job you’ll get hell if you mess up, except in the video game industry, it feels like a requirement to behave like a moron,

TLDR
Blizzard is clueless, nerfed utility, nerfed damage, nerfed set, can’t communicate.

#PriestsDeserveWorseIguess

1 Like

It feels like you control this game by nerfing any class and shadow is one of them because it is popular class. You decided to nerf us so we can play other than shadow? It is what you do so please dont do this way and it is definitely unacceptable! You make shadow worse every patch so what is going on?

Maybe a little feedback, so future Priest generations can’t call me a crybaby.

For me it feels like Shadows biggest enemy is Shadow itself. In Legion you gave Shadow a big change, called it Void Priest, gave it Voidform that required players to snort funny substances of their table before joining the raid and then going absolute nuts.

And now in DF we kind of see the flaws because it seems like the base Version, the foundation, Shadow itself is weak. It is like a house that’s built on a swamp of course you can add stuff to try to make it sturdier but, in the end, it will always sink and stink.

I personally wish you would take a step back, take a deep breath and think what a Void not Shadow but Void Priest is. What is their goal and how should they play. Then put everything that is in Shadows current spell book in a trash can, every single ability, every talent and start from scratch.

It seems like it is way too hard to figure out what to do with Mind Blast, Vampiric Touch, SWP, Voidform, Spike, etc.

This doesn’t mean you can’t add some of those spells back, but I have a feeling all those spells restrict your creativity and the options to find an identity for the spec.

Is it some sort of cultist that uses their faith in the Void to gain more power? Maybe a K’thir that eats some funny brain juice before it slaps someone with a tentacle all over the place?

Why don’t change insanity to sanity and let the player choose how deep they want to get lost in the Void (spend sanity to gain more powerful Void abilities). Add a talent that resembles Surrender to Madness that’s let you juggle near the empty sanity bar and gives you hefty bonuses like casting while moving, better damage but also straight up kill you if you go overboard with it.

These are just ideas to showcase what would be possible if we started from scratch.

Even if Shadow was a balance nightmare in legion, it was super fun during its duration, and I think is a good example of your talent and kind of showcased that you are fully capable to do reworks that seem interesting and enjoyable. Did the spec had flaws during that time? Absolutely but how goes the saying “Even a Bad Experience can be a Blessing in Disguise.”

And you kind of showed us with the Paladin and Mage Rework and if I am not mistaken Rogue and Demon Hunter also look promising. So clearly there is talent.

Just my 2 cents again I’m no dev, just a pleb on the net but I enjoy Shadow it is something interesting something that I couldn’t find in any other game. Of course, I could play warlock but I’m not one that needs pewnie little demons to do it’s work or some weird Owl that shoots stars and spawns mushrooms like a Stone head.

TLDR

I think Blizzard should start from scratch, with new abilities and talents and build Shadow from there up. So, we don’t need to be carried by externals anymore.

At this point might as well just delete Shadow priest from the game… You keep nerfing it, over and over again, its the 5th round… Although its performing c tier on PTR Raid, this is just sadening for SP player. What is the motivation for just detroying one class of dps… Isnt this supposed to be a game, out of which we should be getting fun rather than frustration…

blizzard promised transparency, but shadow has had nerf after nerf and nerfs which dont make sense. and still no feedback from the dev team…

The posts on the USA post are massive i would have posted there but cant

Quote From Publik

Overall I’m pretty disappointed with the recent changes, I feel like after all the feedback given most of it is still being ignored. Going into Patch 10.2 Shadow Priest was already suffering in terms of Raid performance and with all of these changes we are roughly 6% worse when compared to live. If you factor in the new tier set we are still 4% behind.

For a spec that is struggling to be relevant in raid I do not understand why the tier set is being adjusted without any compensating changes to the base spec. The change to Power Infusion has still yet to be commented on or addressed as to why this nerf was carried out to the Priest’s Power Infusion which is certainly contributing to both the damage problem and the feel problem where Power Infusion runs out before our cooldown is over.

The partial revert on the changes to the 4-set also is a massive struggle. By only reverting the buff to Shadow Crash and not the nerf to the Shadow Word: Pain component you have now severely de-valued the 4 piece set bonus. Current tuning going from 2-piece to 4-piece is only 2.7% damage. This is incredibly lackluster for a set bonus that has been changed countless times with a lot of feedback. What makes this even worse is there has been no communication surrounding any of this.

The community is simply at a loss here for what the direction is for this spec. It feels every change we are getting is negatively affecting the specs performance and the ability to have fun while being competitive in PvE environments. We have no niche when it comes to damage pattern in Raid or Mythic+. At earlier iterations of the set bonus at least we had good execute, but now our execute is just table stakes for being invited to the raid, it isn’t even competitive anymore.

Shadow Priest is also severely struggling in AoE with the constant nerfs to our DoTs, Shadowy Apparitions, and Psychic Link. None of these changes have been addressed going into 10.2, especially after losing our current Aberrus set bonus. We are target capped at 5 for Inescapable Torment and roughly 8 for Psychic Link, yet we do not even do competitive damage at those amount of targets. Previously our specialty for single target was hiding our weaknesses in AoE, but now that we do not have that either we are just struggling in both.

Revert the PI and MD changes

The PI nerf can easy be fix if you want to nerf the other classes and not us

Twins of the Sun Priestess
Talent
NEW Reduces the effeteness/duration of PI by 25% when cast on an ally NEW
Power Infusion also grants you of its 100% of its base effects when used on an ally.

2 Likes

Please buff Apparitions damage significantly. They are incredibly weak without the t30 set boosting the damage. It would make the spec a lot better in Mythic+ and it would make Voidform more viable. In higher key pushing, playing with no form of AoE dot extension is going to be miserable and really kneecap the spec.