FEEDBACK: PvP Playtesting

Thanks to everyone who came out and tested PvP on the Chains of Domination PTR with us today.

In this thread, please leave any feedback you have on your experiences playtesting PvP today, and please feel free to list as much information as possible about your class/spec/talents and those of your teammates.

2 Likes

Ret paladins damage is out of controll on PTR ive seen ret 1 shoting all dps classes including a 226 tank , they need to be looked into also hybrid healing too

9 Likes

Hi , Destruction Main
Tested : Destru lock with a DH/Rsham,
PvP talents used: Bonds of fel,Shadow rift, Demon Armor/nether ward

For first impression: I think these changes are 10/10 for fun, it feels rly good to use Bonds of fel or Shadow rift. And Duplicating chaos bolts again is an insane feeling .
I think Destruction feels rly good to play rn. The new talents feels good especially Bonds of fel. (try not to nerf it, instead cut out on something else if destro turns out to be too strong).

Things to keep an eye on that can be too strong: Without Focused Chaos > Bane of Havoc probably can wipe teams in RatedBGs .

Overall thoughts: The passive tankyness on destro, still feels weird. i would like to see some kind of control over our tankyness, mostly a change for Essence Drain . i’d like to see that talent being designed more for destro. Since we never use Drain life in PvP .

Things about Bonds of fel: It would be a nice touch, if the spell can “reactivate itself” if someone runs back into it again. So we can make plays with our Shadowrift or knock people back into it .

2 Likes

I’m a casual player (former high-end raider) who’s trying to climb in as MW in PvP (love, love, love the new talents, so much more versatile!) mostly through Group Finder PUGs or Community Groups. My main problem I’m finding is that the really harsh breakpoints of rating to ilvl are creating huge gear disparity, especially later in the patch cycle.

I got to 213 in the first month, then pretty much stopped because MW wasn’t viable after a few weeks (a third of the EHP in pressure windows than the next worst class – Shaman) and returning now means trying to get through a minefield of DDs with 38-45k HP making getting to Rival the thing of fantasies.

Conquest catch-up is “meh, whatever” if the ability to upgrade it and climb is so predicated upon gear (as the meta is right now, gear is more impactful than skill after a 7 ilvl average) and I wish the gear progression was more granular so that catching up on upgrades wasn’t quite so binary.

Like, maybe if 1650 lets you upgrade your wrist, jewellery slots and helm to Rank 4, 1700 lets you upgrade gloves, boots and chest, and 1750 lets you upgrade everything except weapon and shoulders (the coolest pieces) which are reserved for the breakpoint.

I know this goes against the clarity of the rating-break-point system but the current system is untenable even with the change to needing to win a match that week. I never have paid for a boost. I’m not a pro player, but I’m definitely competent enough to be in the 1800-2000s.

But, when 25 rating difference (as you reach the end of 1700s) means encountering groups 7 average ilvls above your (probably) best geared people in the group… it’s just too big a discrepancy with the exponential scaling of Versa in 9.0.

P.s. As much as I love the new talents, I think you missed the mark with Dematerialise. MW has a kit that is anti-peel and well-supplemented by Fistweaving. That means going into Melee where there’s a lot more stuns on offer. This is already a risk-reward strategy, you apply extra pressure but don’t kite so you’re in more danger of taking burst damage and additional CC.

I’m grateful for any buff to our dire EH in a pressure window, but this talent needs to be stronger against melee and weaker against ranged to really remedy our weakness. If a ranged stuns me, their melee has to react to that (switch, maybe use mobility), my team need to react to the ranged (apply pressure, stun or interrupt their nuke) and I need to react to their melee (kite, trinket or CD). But if a melee stuns me, why did I let them get to me in the first place? Right, because I wanted to go in and make the most of my tools.

There’s a good niche for MW as an anti-melee healer that is particularly vulnerable to magic nukes and melee burst during co-ordinated assaults. Maybe a Stun reduction based on the distance of the Stunner. Or adjust the damage reduction of Dematerialise based on distance from the attacker (so 60/50/40% TDR within melee, but 20%/10%/-10% from ranged). Or make it increase periodic damage taken while stunned but take less direct damage. Or give MW Stagger while Stunned with no way to purify it. There’s loads of options but I think Dematerialise is too simple a solution to a complex problem.

But this is picking hairs, we’ll be plenty strong now that we have a friggin’ 2s Paladin bubble on our 90sec cd instant mini-Tranq with added mass dispel.

3 Likes

Demonology warlock
Give demolock new talents instead of
[Darkfury](http://www.wowdb.com/spells/264874) ,
[Soul Strike](http://www.wowdb.com/spells/264057) ,
[Nether Portal](http://www.wowdb.com/spells/267217) or rework them cause literally no one playing with it.
Same for PVP talents like
[Essence Drain](https://www.wowdb.com/spells/221711-essence-drain) ,
[Bane of Fragility](https://www.wowdb.com/spells/199954-bane-of-fragility),
[Singe Magic](https://www.wowdb.com/spells/212623-singe-magic)
They’re too weak, compared to others, there’s no situation where you’ll choose these 3

[Grimoire: Felguard](http://www.wowdb.com/spells/111898) could be buffed to 1.5 min CD


The main weakness for demonology in pvp is the fact that all your burst damage depends on DEMONIC TYRANT https://www.wowhead.com/spell=265187/summon-demonic-tyrant that can be controlled, interrupted and needs a lot of global CD’s to setup it well. Also there’s a bug that causes Demonic Tyrant to run in a melee zone to a target if this target is out of sight. Could be nice to have PVP talent which makes the “Summon Demonic tyrant” cast instant tho.

We could use another talent build based on big demonbolts with [Sacrificed Souls](http://www.wowdb.com/spells/267214) but now it’s too weak too.
Balespider’s Burning Core legendary https://www.wowhead.com/spell=337159/balespiders-burning-core has good potential after you buffed it, but unfortunately it needs a lot of casting which is intolerable in current arena meta.

And the other big problem for demolock is the summon main pet cast time. If your pet get killed twice in arena it’s the lost match for you. It’s impossible to resummon it with regular 5 secs cast time especially if you play against shamans

5 Likes

Explain Emerald Slumber to me. I don’t get how that is good. I do nothing for 8 seconds and in return my teammates get faster cooldown recovery. But I am a bear, so I get put on FC or base guard duty. Either a. I am the target, and I won’t get it off, or I am far away from anyone who could benefit.

And Grove protector. I could see work, but not with an interruptible cast time. A circle which shows the area it works in would help.

They are fun as abilities, but as talents I am never going to pick them live and yes, I do RBGs as guardian.

Also why is it only the first RBG of the day which rewards anima? It is already low considering what I get from a daily quest and it disincentivise playing in the stable groups RBGs need to make 10v10 and rating effective.

I think the hunter legendary Craven Strategem is too good vs certain specs that rely on putting up dots to deal dmg, especially affliction warlock when you can remove UA without any punishment on such a low cd. Furthermore even survival can do decent dmg from range and bm can do everything on the move with no cast time so they can effectively use LoS to their advantage while dealing dmg. Holy paladin shadow resistance aura was changed for similar reasons of countering some specs way too hard.

7 Likes

Hi , 2300 xp Affliction Main here
Tested : Affly lock
PVP Talents: Rapid Contagion, Rampant Affliction, Nether Ward/ Demon Armor

TALENT ISSUES

Afffliction doesn’t get any new pvp talent besides that 1 meme Shadow Rift talent what you never pick since affliction is hardly Talent locked into Rapid Contagion, Rampant Affliction, Nether Ward/ Demon Armor. There is no valid situation where you choose the following spells over any of the 4 mandatory what im mentioned before, Rot and Decay, Essence Drain, Deathbolt, Bane spells needs to be changed/reworked or completly remove them, these are just the remnants of Legion expansion.

GCD Issues

Affliction is gcd starving very hardly compare to other dot specs like ShadowPriest, you dont have time to cast Shadow Bolt or anything else besides your dots and Fear spell, and the change to Sacrolash legendary makes this problem even bigger. Spells from the past can solve this problem, i think to Soul Swap, Soulburn, Amplify Affliction.

Defensive Issues

Affliction was always a rot and dot spec what starts to truly shine when the damp starts, now affliction still feels something like a rot spec but now you can’t survive that long if you face against melee comps. Every time a melee connected to me my team or me have to trade a CD or i will die within 1-2 gcd. I dont think affliction has to be a running headless chinken bot, where i die to an auto-attack. Maybe SoulLink or revert Dark Pact to its legion form could solve/ partialy solve this problem with the spec, tldr Affliction is too squishy.

Damage

I think damage wise affliction is not that bad, we lack of single target preasure but affliction is never ment to be a burst spec like FireMages now. My only problem is Dark Glare, this is the most boring and the weakest offensive cd in the game, you only use it to extend your dots but its damage and interaction with the spec is so abysmal since UA stacking is gone with Shadowlands, i would be happy with some sort of rework or buff to this spell.

EDIT: why Darksoul, a 2min TALENT is still purgeable/stealable? its just dumb i have to hide,line behing a pillar with my offensive CD.

5 Likes

Hi Hunter 3000exp, Mrank1,
Test:Marksmanship Hunter

PVP Talent: Consecutive Concussion
Problem: Its in general a good change that u get back a stun for MM. But BM and SV Petstun is way more Powerful than spamming 3 times Steady Shot to finally Stun the target. If u play against a Paladin he can just freedom the target which u already applied 2 steady shots and it wont stun the target which makes this talent really hard to use. On the other hand a sv/bm hunter could have just stunned the paladin with the petstun even when the paladin has freedom on him.
To mention is as well that steady shot deals not a big amount of dmg.

Recom. Change: If u cast concussive shot on a target and following an aim shot the target get stunned. It should have then an internal CD. For Example just every 15-20sec. This make its more profitable. Casting 3 steady shots in a fast paced arenamatch isnt the thing MM hunter needs.
Back in MOP steady shot was more often used due to the haste u get (was baseline) and u could even get an instant aim shot after several steady shots. Back then u had also a 25sec silence shot and a 30-40sec stun with binding shot which felt very clean.

Hope u read my adjustments.
Thanks and Bye

Hello, 2.400 RBG Outlaw Rogue here.

I playtested the new Outlaw talents with the Devs yesterday and they felt good but Outlaw rogue got utility on top of the utility it had, and what the spec is desperately lacking is actually numbers in dps and pressure on healers.

On every 9.0.5. tier list it is considered the worst possible spec for PvP (it is called trashcan-tier) and some of the ways that could fix the spec would be:

  1. Change the mastery so that it isn’t a completely dead stat on Outlaw. Both other rogue specs either love it or dont mind mastery because they benefit from it. Main Gauche is boring/rng and on top of that deals very low physical damage. Outlaw is the only spec out of the three rogue specs that exclussively deals physical damage, making it extremely weak versus plate geared characters, so revamping the mastery from Main Gauche to a % of armor penetration would do incredible things for the spec.

  2. Outlaw has 0 burst even with the master assassin legendary. Sure you could try to cheese more dmg with killing spree, but that only really works on clothies for the reasons mentioned above, and while I agree not all classes should have on-demand burst, at least make it so that Outlaw has more consistent damage numbers (I’m 227 ilevel and sinister strike hits for 1k only) or give it a mortal strike effect for it to have an edge over other rogue specs and do more pressure on healers. As it is now it can’t touch holy paladins or resto shamans just because of the armor alone.

  3. Outlaw is the tankiest of the rogue specs due to the talent “Drink up me Hearties” paired up with the “Iron Stomach” talent. Drink Up Me Hearties being reworked hits Outlaw incredibly hard and transforms the talent from a mandatory to a completely useless one. Added 5% healing is not sufficient at all, while the aoe healing is nice, but not good enough for the talent to compete with lets say smoke bomb.

  4. “Take your Cut” PvP talent was much stronger in BFA because roll the bones did not have a cooldown and you could have a 100% uptime on it. Perhaps changing the talent to proc from “Slice n Dice” rather than “Roll the Bones” would be much better and make it as strong as its BFA counterpart.

  5. Float like a Butterfly - Seems like a very good talent but is practicaly a passive ability that feels like an extension of an already existing passive ability that Outlaw already has - Restless Blades. This talent seems too weak to not be a baseline passive along with Restless Blades. However, if it would affect the cooldown of “Crimson Vial” as well, it would make Outlaw more durable, fun and unpredictable and would definitely help it become the bruiser you are trying to make it become.

  6. Durable Brawler - The Sinister Strike portion seems very good, but takes too long to ramp up without a healer, and the 20% hp increase seems way too low. Personally, when you compare it to spells like “Divine Protection” and “Word of Glory” or “Convoke the Spirits” having this spell be a hp increase from 20% to 40% (for me from 8k hp to 16k on a 40k rogue) would make it much better and viable.

  7. Adding in a mortal strike effect like assassination got in one of their new PvP talents would be of incredible help.

  8. Adding better numbers on the “Bloodfang” legendary would open up an outlaw rogue vampire healer niche that would really compliment the style you are trying to make it become. Right now on PTR Bloodfang heals for 100 hp each tick while realistically it should be 500+ to make it competitive.

Thank you for the great event, I wish we could make more of them in the future!

2 Likes

Feedback Warlock, Demonology most of the time.

In general warlocks lack survivability, if demon armor, Demon Skin and soul link would be baseline we could handle the insane burst a bit better. With the third talent row changed to having 3 defensive options instead of 2 def and one bad designed mobility option.
I don’t care what you do with burning rush, remove it or baseline.
But instead the better option would be Dark Regeneration, Dark Bargain and Dark Pact.
PvP Talent addition Blood Horror.
Demonic Calling has a 5% chance to proc on any dmg(you or pets) and resets the cd of Dreadstalkers. Other option for this talent remove it, but then make all summons instant!
Soul Strike should be los from pet and with execute potential.
Dark Fury is just bad either add the instant Shadow Fury or remove it. Better would be demonic grip - instant - a demon hand grips the target and rooting it for 6 seconds. 30 seconds cd.
Soul Conduit should be a passive ability with a 10% procc chance.
New talent Summon Abysall works like a Infernal but a bit stronger.
Sacrificed Souls and Demonic Consumption baseline. Those 2 just brings the dmg of Demonbolt and Tyrant to a normal scale. Nether Portal 1,5 seconds cast time and every soul shard spent summons a demon from the Nether.

2 new talents:

Dark Soul Knowledge with a 25% increase to mastery for 20 seconds, 2 min cd.

Summon Fel Reaver - 3 min cd - summons a Fel Reaver for 10 seconds, deals Chaos dmg to all target in front of him.
Just like he does 2-3 punches( with Fel Obelisk 3)

2 Likes

Dematerialize PvP talent for mw doesn’t feel that useful when we have the stun tp talent. At 40% dmg reduction with rapid decrease i felt i was never gonna specc it, and now i saw it was nerfed down to 30% with about same rapid decrease and it just doesnt feel that useable compared to stun tp. Maybe give it a twist, like 50% with same fast decrease but only against physical dmg or something, would make it arguable to sometimes specc both dematerialze and stun tp, or sometimes specc dematerialze over stun tp.

Also Dome of Mist pvp talent is pretty useless, should have needed a rework aswell into 9.1 since mw do need dispel protection. Maybe if renewing mist gets dispelled the next vivify creates an absorb shield for 50% of the amount healed or something. Because Enveloping mist is way too expensive to spam to get the shield effect.

3 Likes

You had to standardize ilvl in BGs to keep the asymetry from ilvl discrepency to mess up with the testing.
Maybe learn from it and stop putting rating gated gear in the game ?

4 Likes

Pls do another Sacrolash rework , feels so bad for everyone who crafted it to max rank anyway . Maybe do something that UA is applied multipe different dots . Would solve the GCD issue and be more a legedary that someone would have crafted if it was like this in the first place
pls do another rework for this , the old version was 2 op and was just compensating missing Defensives

1 Like

I think the slow shouldn’t return, maybe give it the option for if a dispell comes in a UA Target, UA gets dispelled, too.

And some more changes to demo, if I didn’t wrote it in my first recommendation. All summons instant, only the summons. Then change the cast time of Shadowbolt or increase its dmg. It is so frustrating to cast this spell just for the soul shard.

3 Likes

WW monk still bugged.
Touch of Death shoud activate instantly not 5 seconds after I click it.
Because 99% times enemy will use survival skill and you cannot hit im with finishing move.
This spell is now useless in pvp and monk lost 10% dmg on 2v2 because of this.

2 Likes

Hello, outlaw rogue main here.

The damage of killing spree are still nerfed in pvp and i think the nerf is not necessary anymore.

1 Like

Hello! MW 2.4 exp here.

  1. MW monk has serious problems against melee specs, even for a short time, due to the lack of any instant healing and damage reduction abilities (except for [Fortifying Brew] with 3m cd).
    [Dematerialize] doesn’t seem helpful. When the enemy stuns a monk, on the first GCD we get a 30% damage reduction, and on the 2nd GCD, when he does DMG we already have a 10% damage reduction, and on the 3rd GCD we get pure damage.
    Solution: rework [Dematerialize] so that it grants immunity against physical damage exclusively, but with a 45-60 second cooldown.

  2. [Refreshing Breeze] it is difficult to use this talent to the fullest in many scenarios due to the fact that you need to continuously cast shooting mist to get stacks which disappear after the end of the cast.
    Solution: the buff with stacks is maintained after the end of the cast for 8-10 seconds.

  3. I would also like to say for fistveawing in PvP. Legendary item mechanic that force monk to use Essence Font make this choice an extremely dubious decision to play in pvp due to manacost .
    Solution: New PvP talent - Triggers Essence Font withount manacost when using Thunder Focus Tea (or another ability, possibly Rising Sun Kick or Expel Harm)

This changes will make MW more durable vs melee and allow to play offencive.

I am a rogue main and hunter lego is too op in my opinion
With the doomblade lego we try to full dot before pooling our combo points to big envenoms but as soon as the dots are removed no energy no CP for follow ups and constant slow/los/ and pets biting from behind is hard

2 Likes

Really well thought and good changes but the mastery change is kinda only pvp so it wont work much on pve i think. So actually making the dmg better is a go to fix for the mastery

1 Like