Feedback: Warlocks

In this thread, please discuss ongoing changes to the Warlock class in the Guardians of the Dream PTR.

Affliction

  • Grand Warlock’s Design has been redesigned – Summon Darkglare cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds.

Demonology

Demonology’s damage profile is currently too reliant on Nether Portal and Tyrant windows. In Guardians of the Dream, we’re redistributing this power to other parts of Demonology’s rotation and decoupling the synergy between these two cooldowns so that they can stand on their own rather than being dependent on one another. We still want Nether Portal and Demonic Tyrant to be impactful, powerful cooldowns – just not the only source of meaningful output for a Demonology Warlock.

  • Gul’dan’s Ambition has been redesigned – When Nether Portal ends, you summon a Pit Lord that serves you for 10 seconds.
  • Grand Warlock’s Design has been redesigned – Summon Demonic Tyrant cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds.
  • Ner’zhul’s Volition has been redesigned – Demons summoned from your Nether Portal deal 15/30% increased damage.
  • Demonic Knowledge now has a 10% chance of causing Hand of Gul’dan to generate a Demonic Core (was 15%).
  • New Talent: Volatile Fiends – Implosion deals 10% increased damage. Bilescourge Bombers deal 20% increased damage and your spells now have a chance to summon a Bilescourge Bomber.
  • Summon Demonic Tyrant has been redesigned – Summon a Demonic Tyrant to increase the duration of your Dreadstalkers, Vilefiend, Felguard, and up to 10 of your Wild Imps for 15 seconds. Your Demonic Tyrant increases the damage of affected demons by 15% while damaging your target.
  • Reign of Tyranny has been redesigned – Active Wild Imps grant 1 stack of Demonic Servitude and active greater demons grant 3 stacks of Demonic Servitude, up to 15 stacks. Demonic Tyrant deals 10% additional damage for each stack of Demonic Servitude active at the time of his summon.
  • Inner Demons no longer has a chance to summon an additional demon during combat.
  • Demonic Core is no longer baseline.
  • Demonbolt now grants the passive Demonic Core when learned.
  • Shadow Bolt damage increased by 30%.
  • Demonbolt damage increased by 15%.
  • Vilefiend damage increased by 15%.
  • Bloodbound Imps has been removed.

Destruction

  • New Talent: Chaosbringer – Chaos Bolt damage increased by 8/15%. Rain of Fire damage increased by 5/10%. Shadowburn damage increased by 5/10%.
  • Chaos Bolt damage increased by 15%.
  • Grand Warlock’s Design has been redesigned – Summon Infernal cooldown is reduced by 60 seconds.
  • Madness of the Azj’Aqir has been removed.
    • Developers’ note: We’re removing Madness of the Azj’Aqir and introducing a new talent, Chaosbringer, that increases the output of Chaos Bolt, Shadowburn, and Rain of Fire. Additionally we are adding damage to Chaos Bolt baseline. We’re doing this specifically to decrease how penalizing movement can feel as a Destruction Warlock while also making these spells feel more impactful.

Minor gripe I’m sure but I’m not a fan of having the flavour sucked out of Inner Demons - it was rare, yeah, but it was still cool getting to passively summon demons we usually never see outside of Nether Portal (and even that’s gotten nerfed and isn’t spawning as many demons, so now there’s even less chance to see them!). Tbh I only play demo casually so I’ll leave the other changes to the more serious demolock mains :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

I haven’t really messed around enough with Demo changes to add anything there other than it feels sad for such a pet-centric spec to feel like all of its power and set bonuses are bringing the focus very much away from the pets.

As for Affliction and Destruction I’ve spent a bit of time on the PTR hitting dummies and playing around with the set bonuses so here are my initial thoughts:

Affliction -

  • The set bonus feels nice to play with in single target. There’s a good cadence to the rotation, the extension on DoTs is helpful and getting a few hard hitting Malefic Raptures is always fun.

  • In AoE the set bonus is all but useless. The additional soul rot damage will be completely unnoticeable in an AoE scenario and there’s no chance that those 3 malefic raptures would ever be pressed in any AoE pull above 3 targets. The set bonus proc going to waste feels bad - my suggestion would be to have the 4-set apply to the next 3 Malefic Rapture OR Seed of Corruption casts.

  • Grand Warlock’s Design simply doesn’t make sense to spec into for any scenario whatsoever. In AoE we’d take Grim Reach naturally. For single target - in order to take Grand Warlock’s Design - we would have to sacrifice either Soul Rot (rendering the set bonus useless), Tormented Crescendo (extremely valuable ST talent), or Dread Touch (THE most valuable single target talent?). I would never spec into GWD for any reason as things stand as it’s not worth the sacrifice.

Destruction -

  • The set bonus is decently interesting imo, and being free of Channel Demonfire jail feels amazing. Dimensional Rift opening up some mobility through use of the instant cast gcd’s is welcome also.

  • Removal of Azjaqir is fantastic in terms of mobility/QoL but the reduced number of “fast” Chaos Bolt casts does feel weird at first. I wonder if there’s a world where we might have the option to choose between higher damage Bolts from Chaos Bringer, or a faster cast speed instead? (random uncooked take)

  • As with affliction - the current set bonus is all but useless in AoE. There’s no world in which the current Dimensional Rift would bring more value than Chaos Incarnate with rain of fire in m+.

    I think it would be really cool if the 4-set bonus could make your dimensional rifts hit all targets affected by your immolate. The idea of spamming a tonne of rift procs from multiple immolates to deal aoe damage alongside or in lieu of (a non-Chaos Incarnate buffed) Rain of Fire really appeals to me. Feels like it adds some flavour, ties in well to the new set, varies the AoE gameplay (super exciting in destro as we know) and perhaps gives room for a real choice between Rift or Rain depending on the size of pulls.

  • At its current power level (Day 1, I know), the Dimensional Rift portion of the set bonus makes zero difference to damage output in single target, which doesn’t feel great when its current iteration is already not worth using in AoE.

    I spent a significant amount of time hitting training dummies wearing the set with both Dimensional Rift and Chaos Incarnate specced. Over a 10 minute period both options were within 1k dps of each other. It would be cool if the set bonus gave a tangible increase to our damage output and wasn’t just providing a few extra gcd’s of movement via rift casts - which is currently the case.

In summary I’m interested in the Aff and Destro sets and with some iteration i think both could be really enjoyable and feel powerful without changing a huge amount or making them overpowered. Demo I don’t really want to comment on at this time.

Lastly, I have major concerns over how things are going to shake out as we head into 10.2 once we lose our class trinket as it feels like warlock has been propped up on a few different crutches during 10.1 which are all about to give way. Both aff and demo are heavily reliant on Power Infusion during their burst currently, combined with the class trinket which is incredibly strong. That being said I’m sure the balancing will be figured out in due course :slight_smile:

Thanks for reading!

5 Likes

The comment above is me btw for anyone wondering why a panda DK is commenting on warlock stuff. I never use the forums so idk if I could just change the char on that post xD

2 Likes

Update 09/2023 | Affliction talent tree and Warlock M+ feedback

Affliction is a mix of many new and good ideas and some old stuff which in the end are not working in one cup. Typically, when we look at Balance or Shadow design, it’s hard to avoid feeling that Affliction is left behind. Specially in PvE, as since few patches PvP Affliction seem to have many of new ideas which shake a little how it plays. Playstyle of Affliction can feel sometimes clunky in M+ and some talent choices are too far obligatory after changes since expansion released.

Personally, in my opinion the Affliction strengths should be:

  • mobile souls master who bases mostly on instant and quick cast spells, including those on which he is spending his soul shards,
  • calmful strategist of the battlefield, who spend most of the time of looking out of opportunities to deal most damage to its enemies with his powerful spells,
  • spending period between casting deadly spells during combat to refresh his damage over time effects and gather soul shard to prepare to another harmful combo upon enemies,
  • most dangerous when enemy is weakening and close to death, using it as opportunity to deal finishing damage.

Siphon Life, Malefic Rapture and Darkglare

Current version of Affliction due to the changes in 10.0.5 and 10.0.7 like Focused Malignancy and Darkglare rework brought impactful and mandatory talents which must be included when tailoring own tree.

With current version of Malefic Rapture and Darkglare, the Siphon Life due to the dot-amount scaling for those spells is overshadowing Absolute Corruption pick. By not selecting this talent it brings three times punishment

  • first is loss of pure DOT value,
  • second is loss additional dot-count for Malefic Rapture,
  • last is loss is additional dot-count for Darkglare.

When Siphon Life came back into game there was no talents like Malefic Rapture and Darkglare, the value of it was just pure damage and spell was never reviewed during BFA or Shadowlands with new dot-amount scaling damage spells.

Haunt and Shadow Embrace

With new expansion we came into version of Affliction when spending 3 talent points is responsible for 19% damage increase in single target by Shadow Embrace and Haunt and I’m not sure if any other class have access to so much power with so little points. This leading into situation where both of talents are highly mandatory in any build but does not bring any fun or improvement to the rotation, just giving additional frames over nameplate to track which we are already full off.

For multi target it gives 19% raw damage for abilities like Darkglare and Doom Blossom. In the perfect vacuum it can sound like “mastering the class” portion of the game, but when we include environment and need of manually refreshing of Agony, it’s getting more and more frustrating. On the top it brings additional delay in multi target combat.

As final remark, there is no world in which Shadow Embrace talent is currently balanced correctly against 10% Drain Soul damage increase from Dark Virtuosity which is placed in same row and requiring same point cost investment.

Agony refreshing

One reason of it is losing Deliberate Malice, this effect did very well for Affliction when it came during Shadowlands season 3, but I understand that in the past two seconds extension and level of available haste could move away Affliction little too much from necessity of refreshing dots. In comparison Shadow have (had :blush:) talent which extends his DoTs duration when spending his Insanity for AoE or cast filler spell. In 10.1 Shadow is receiving possibility to constantly keep DOTs up with Shadow Clash. Balance Druid have their option to select talent which increase DOTs duration when spending accumulated power in AoE. Affliction as only one of DOT-range specializations have no possibility to easily keep DOTs, which can be core reason why it’s not popular in M+.

Due to the Vile Taint, there are in worst case scenario 8x Agony to refresh at same time. To been able to do that you need around 8x1.5=12 seconds to refresh all of them when 0% haste value and 8x1.0=8 seconds with 50% haste value (+ human mistake factor). With Agony lasting 18 seconds it means 66% - 44% of the time you should spend to refresh Agony cause Darkglare is not always available to extend its duration. By doing that you are not spending Shards and very often sit overcapped with 5 of them, unable to spend them efficiently.

Some of community ideas was to bring back Deliberate Malice or make Agonizing Corruption talent extending Agony duration. As I understand with months into expansion passing by, this is not direction preferred by Warlock developer, as there were already two opportunities to do it. Challenge to overcome would be to find unique way, which is only Affliction kind, but doing same thing: improving gameplay quality around Agony without making it brainless.

One of solution worth consisted, which might help also with “Vile Taint 8 Agony refresh problem” mentioned above, would be to make casting Agony extends other Agonies duration by two seconds. With such mechanic player is not relieved from having to refresh the Agony at multiple targets manually, but doing it feels less pressured as you are able to refresh all your Agonies just if you are willing to do it. With 2 seconds extension it would require casting 7 times Agony to pass Vile Taint cooldown so it would not become too much powerful.

Seed of Corruption and Malefic Rapture

Malefic Rapture was implemented during Shadowlands to solve Affliction ramp-up time. On paper it was interesting, in the reality due to the need of spreading dots it was even worst. I will try to bring up two most important for me points to explain why Malefic Rapture did very little for specialization and its existence in current form is questionable.

  1. Malefic Rapture never solved problems which was supposed to.
    In 9.0 the spell was overpowered (due to many reasons) and in final we saw it being nerfed. After it, to help Affliction in M+ buffs to Seed of Corruption came into play. It brought solid multi target damage but due to the talent system we could choice only between being good in single or multi target. From the start of the current expansion Affliction did very poorly in M+, from 10.1.5 we can see it raising a little, again due to the Seed of Corruption changes/buffs.
  1. Malefic Rapture was never needed to be implemented.
    The only thing which Affliction was missing in BFA was solid multi target damage for purpose of M+. This could be easily solved with same steps which was already taken over Seed of Corruption in Shadowlands and Dragonflight (additional Seed and reduced cast time) without need of implementing addition spell.

Simple conclusion which we can take is that Malefic Rapture was never helpful for Affliction when fast multi target damage ramp-up was required. It always needs his bigger brother in form of Seed of Corruption to come with help.

In general, I like Malefic Rapture as the spell and idea. I think it’s more engaging than simple seeding and splashing damage but feel like the spell was left out in its 1.0 version and never was finished/updated to minimalize its weak spots. Always liked the idea that we will have one spell for single and multi-target application as our focus should be to keep dots up.

Can’t wait to see the world where Seed of Corruption is very optional to pick (even in M+) , Malefic Rapture bring fun gameplay and there are more ways to spread Corruption and do AoE damage.

Random Soul Shard generation

Across all of three Warlock specializations (and probably also most of the classes) the Affliction is only one which generate their class power by random during the combat. Unstable Affliction and Drain Soul makes their count only when targets are dying, outside of that only Agony can provide Soul Shards during the combat. Random effects reduce the possibilities of player to control the gameplay and put the output damage more to the value of luck.

Dread Touch and Doom Blossom

During normal M+ run no matter which talent we will pick it will be death in single or multi target scenarios due to the soul shards spenders which are used. In case of capstone talents this situation should not have place or be at least limited. Mine feedback is to combine both talents into one, as their effects are be based on two different spells which never are used parallel.

Reasoning as follow: as a player I’m already selecting how I want to go into next approach, for example:

  • First pack has scary mob which must be nuked = go with Malefic Rapture on this pack.

  • Second pack has no priority and its bolstering week = go with Seed of Corruption to equalize dps across all mobs.

Adding another layer of choice with talent looks to be not needed as moment of choice is moment of decision which spell to cast. If team will fail in combat, I can change mine approach to bring damage type which is currently needed, this is decision making stage which is most encouraging.

In the end, instead of having talent working 50/50% during dungeon, it would be the way to make it work 100% of the time and not breaking the game. Another way would be to just let both talents work with both Rapture and Seed, but then the value of the decision you made has less value.

Others

Dark Virtuosity, Kindled Malice – ok fix for 10.0.7 and good placeholder for more interesting talents in the future.

Agonizing Corruption – Two-point investment feel little too much in the current form, as it brings no value after Agony reach 18 stacks.

Pandemic Invocation – Basic UI does not show DoT timers. In current form this talent does not make any sense as it requires additions addons or Weakauras.

Sacrolash’s Dark Strike – Death talent after nerfs. If the problem is PvP balance, then it should reduce curse extension duration just there.

Wrath of ConsumptionCompletely death in Single Target. I understand that this is in AoE talents area but making last tier talent which has totally 0% value in pure Single Target is confusing.

2 Likes

I let more wise give feedback about actual rotations, numbers and stuff, but I want to say that I’m super sad for Inner Demons not summoning random demons anymore. It’s been my favorite talent for long time just for fun times and making Demo feel more Demo. I don’t know what is the reasoning for this but it feels unnecessary. I want to keep summoning my shivarras, void terrors, eyes of Gul’dan and other cool demons. Is it now just for Nether Portal then, I guess? Very lame when you don’t want to play NP build. :<

One positive thing I want to say, making Grand Warlock’s Design have the CD reduction exact seconds instead of based in soul shards spent is super cool. Usually when spending soul shards it was pretty much the same, unless you had downtime for example in dungeon (skipping stuff, just moving around longer distances, rp, anything else) sometimes made it not line up well with other stuff. I like this change a lot, thank you. <3

3 Likes

I’m just going to post on affliction & the other spec tier sets because the other specs spell changes are just really cooked gameplay wise & there’s no amount of tunning that will fix that.
If the people working on demo & destro listen to feedback then those changes simply won’t go through because those are some of the worst change both specs could receive.

Affliction:

  • 4p Tier set has no interaction in AOE. You don’t want to use malefic rapture in AOE. You want to use seed instead. But the 4p only buffs Malefic rapture.
  • The buff from 4p (Soulstealer) should not have a 12s duration. We hate buffs like these. Just make it your next 3 Malefic rapture are buffed.
    If you use soul rot on the PTR, you are forced into using malefic rapture because the buff last 12s & it feels bad.
  • The 2s dot extensions should last as long as soulrot is on the target. Atm you can only extend by 6s because only the 3 rapture’s extend the dots.
    It would make the gameplay way more fun to have the interaction work with soul rot as the catalyst instead of the soulstealer buff.

Demo:

  • The proc rate of the new 4p is really bad. Like really bad. 3 min before the doomfiend got summoned while keeping the buff on 3 targets. 10 mins before i saw a second one.
  • The damage is laughable but i guess this is going to get changed/tuned in the future.
  • The debuff should spread from main target when using demonbolt or shadowbolt on that target. It would make the 4p feels really good in aoe which is the whole point of the 2p.
  • The demon from the 4p has no synergy with the kit. Doesn’t buff Tyrant with Reign of Tyranny, doesn’t buff shadowbolt or demonbolt with sacrified souls. Doesn’t seem to be buffed by the expendables as well. 0 synergy to be found with our kit.

Destro:

  • Nobody wants to use spells that feel horrible to press. Rifts are one of such. We had Channel demonfire before now dimensional rifts. Nobody wants to use these abilities because they are bad, feel bad, play bad.
    It is that simple.
    Maybe if the rifts were off GCD, had any synergy with destro kit in any shape or form, and did competitive damage compared to other options, it’d be interesting. But at the moment, I don’t think it’s even worth to equip the 4p set.
4 Likes

After looking at the 3 specs, I can safely say all 3 specs are in a decent spot, with just a few roadblocks.
Regarding aff, I still think removing the refresh of shadow embrace from haunt was a mistake as it forces a refresh with drain soul in awkward spots, and siphon life needs to go and be replaced by something else that doesn’t add to the bloat without damaging the spec’s output.
Concerning destro, I think the spec still lacks something for high movement fights and the current iteration of dimensional rift isn’t it. Cataclysm should also be a base spell for the spec in my opinion.
As for demo, after testing it out I’d say the intention to make the spec less cooldown reliant is a good one and I encourage it.

When it comes to the tier set bonus design, I disagree with the philosophy of forcing us to take certain talents to try to counteract cookie cutter builds. And like many have already said, they will be completely useless in certain situations which is not optimal.

2 Likes

my first things to make destro rotation more fun and not to require to long of a buildup aswell, is to make shadowflame a actual choise to be able to pick since its the greatest way for combining with channel demonfire and rain of fire to get fast aoe damage like most of the other classes!
and i dont like the 2/4 set bonus for either affli and destro!
i like the way i play destro now, with a possible cd of less than 2 mins of my infernal and still have blasphemy, and instead make the 60 sec cd reduction baseline since 2 min is optional and rather make a new choise for 15% per shard to summon another infernal for 8 sec and another for making infernals immolation to increase the damage of all fire damage by 25% or make it reduce our cast time of chaos bolt and incinerate while its up by 30%!
rain of fire 20% dmg and 20% chance for a shard shall be at the 5% fire damage by all hit from it instead, and just remove that plz! and make shadowflame a crucial pick to all m+ players since its only for that it is useful and either fix dimensional rift to be a one type of damage instead of the random 3 because its huge difference depending on what rift u get, and if it wouldnt be for that, and the position of it, the set bonus would be ok! but its a more of a demonology spell, so i rather see you make the set bonus more focused on the infernals and make the 2 set increase the damage from infernal and blasphemy by 25 % (total dmg in a m+ is still around 5-7% per infernal and blasphemy) so it would just increase total dps by a 2,5-3% or so! and make the 4 set to increase the the uptime by infernal with 10 sec and blasphemy by 4 sec so the cd is actually a bigger part of the spec!

same with affli…
make the 2 set increase the stacks agony can ramp up to by 4 and also increase all dot damage by 0,5% per stack wich is total 11%
4 set - seed of corruption also spread siphon life and increase the damage all mobs hit take by dots by 5% stacking to 4!

every affli player wants the dots to be our main source of dps but its so annoying to refresh all dots since its so short time on them… 14 sec on both corruption and siphon life and plz, make siphon life a baseline dot… and instead make the node to be a 20% increased damage by corruption and siphon life and uptime increased by 8 sec so its 22 sec, with an alternative node to make dots have 20% crit and 20% shorter time between dmg!

and its just examples of better way of playing the class wich will be more fun and rewarding!

Speaking as an amateur warlock (My chief alt is a demo 'lock), why are demons being taken away from demonology?

I can understand removing the synergy from tyrant and nether portal, those two were pretty much mandatory picks, due to how the tyrant amplified portal demons DPS (Which in turn meant that off-cooldown DPS had to be toned down), but why make portal and inner demons summon fewer demons?

A sizeable part of the spec’s appeal (In fact, the whole spec concept) is the “Boatload of demons”-thing, they’re in effect visible DoTs, so give us more of them. (Especially since tyrant doesn’t affect a bunch of them anymore, anyway), give us more demons, we don’t care about making SB hit a bit harder, more demons!

Same with (again) the reduction in core-procs, for some reason Blizz has a fixation on shadow bolt, and simply insists we cast more of them, SB is the most dull spell in the demo rotation, core procs are interesting interactivity, SB is just watching a cast bar fill up, dull!

Also, can you do something about my main felguard being smaller than my character? The grimoire felguard is full size, but my main one is tiny in comparison.

i think if u want to fix demo lock dmg u can by doing small changes

nerf the dmg of NP

make grand warlock design in the class tree

make tyrant the same because all the demo dmg now because of the tier set and the trinkets it will be gone next season so why nerf tyrant it should be 1 min if u make grand warlock desing in the class tree

so warlocks now should do dmg every 1 min but as i said demo doing good because of the tier set and the trinkets so why need for nerfs ? all will be gone in s3

1 Like

Affliction: Is that all? I returned to wow after 5 years break just to find out I simply cannot watch over 6-7 dots, 3-4 cd, stacks of something and all that just to do some sort of damage. Years ago the specs that required alot of skills to master were also the most rewarding ones. This, sadly, is no longer true and you will rarely meet affliction lock anywhere raiding, let alone mythic+

Demo: I like the concept of flattering the damage and make it more consistent. However the changes are only lowering the burst without giving consistent damage to compensate. 15-30% dmg increase to shadowbolt or demonbolt is NOT adding damage increase to compensate as at the moment both of the spells are doing laughable dmg.
I play also several alts - paladin, DH and evoker at max level (raiding + mythic+). When a retri pala, DH or evo click on their filler spells you see big numbers flashing out around and it is fun, filling their resources is basically easy and unstoppable. On lock I can spend like 10+ sec running around from something, being interrupted, spell locked, stunned - no resources, no casting. If you want us to cast more shadowbolts then:

  1. shadowbolt needs its damage increased by 300% not 30
  2. It shall have a cleave component or talent
  3. It shall be possible to cast it on the run or shall be instant cast

Demonbolt and demonic cores - at first when I was learning the demo spec I read about demonic cores and I was - “That’s cool, now what to do with those demonic cores?!” Just to understand I am forced to take demonbolt as well. I did not like demonbolt as it is longcasting, no damage spell. If demo locks are forced to take it then why it is in the tree at all?!? Why not move the demonbolt as core demo lock ability instead of making demonic cores talented?!?
AOE - are warlocks the only class without baseline AOE ability? I’m excluding hand of guldan as it does no aoe dmg to show in dmg meters?

Destro - I would like to see destro having instant cast spells and reliable AOE abilities.
Currently we don’t take shadowburn because its damage is bad. There is NO single spell to spam on the move while every other class I played is not so deeply affected by the move. Forcing us to take dimensional rift because of the tier set is a bad decision as it does nothing in AOE environment like mythic+ instances. Dimensional rift needs its dmg increased and AOE component so it is competitive to the other options we have.
AOE - after 15+ years playing this game as destro lock (since there is destro spec basically) I stopped playing it at lvl 70 because of the lack of AOE abilities. It feels weird to talent into RoF when this was core warlock ability since day 1 in 2004! It is ability that is target on the floor and does not move with the mobs (SANGUINE week welcome!) and it only does damage if several ROF are stacked! Any movement of the mobs basically leave us without AOE ability, if the mobs die in less than a minute then we do no AOE damage. Bring back fire and brimstone!!! Tune it to do competitive damage or why not be a second viable AOE choice!
DOTs spread up - as dot class warlocks are the only DOT class to spread their DOTS manually one by one on the mobs. Only destro has talent cataclysm which unfortunately is tied to the ROF AOE and thus unusable.
All DOT specs need a way to spread their dots without hard casting them one by one.

Mythic+ while the attention is and always has been raiding locks are actually suffering hard in mythic+ environment due to the AOE, casting and movement requirements. Mythic+ requires heavy AOE, heavy movement and plenty of utilities that our class does not have.
It is time for the encounters designers (raid and mythic+) to sit together with the class designers and check whether the encounters can be done by any class!!! There is nothing more frustrating than being warlock (any spec) in vortex pinacle or the second boss in Dawn of the Infinite and standing still to cast while the encounter ask you to constantly move!

Affliction needs the same treatment as Discipline priest. The rotation before you do actual damage should be simplified and unnecessary modifiers removed. I find it rather strange that our mastery is simply a flat boost to dmg, but we have a pseudo Resto Druid mastery baked in through Malefic Rapture and Darkglare. This is another example of the bloat the specc suffers from.

The changes the Affli community have suggested and I agree with:

  • Remove Siphon Life or bake it into Corruption. It does 0 damage and it only serves as a modifier for Malefic Rapture and Darkglare, while creating too many GCD’s and spinning plates with other dots.

  • Include Seed of Corruption to 4 pc set, as otherwise it will be counterintuitive in AoE.

  • What will the 4 pc set do, when specced into Absolute Corruption?, not only are we forced to take Siphon Life in general, but this is the final nail to the coffin of an alternative build.

  • Fix the Vile Taint gap. It’s clunky and unfun to be forced to catch up Agonies because our AoE spreader has a cooldown few seconds too long. Balance Druid and Shadow Priest feel amazing in AoE compared to Affli. What is the reasoning behind this gap?

My own thoughts about Affliction:

  • Remove Darkglare. Affliction is clearly the ghastly and malicious soul harvest class fantasy type, as is obvious with their spell and talent names, yet our 2 min cooldown is a weird cosmic and cartoonish eye-demon pet that does lasers? Darkglare makes zero thematical sense to Affliction, it was even initially a Demonology spell. The spell is totally fire and forget and on top of that it’s very low impact compared to 2 min cooldowns of other speccs, unless specced into Grim Reach, which makes it insanely overpowered in big high key M+ pulls. It’s too polarized in its current form. Furthermore, Darkglare is one of the reasons we are forced to take Siphon Life as it also plays with the DOT stacking modifiers. Rework Darkglare like Discipline’s Light’s Wrath got reworked into “Ultimate Penitence”: an impactul cooldown where the player itself becomes the harvester of souls casting dots and Malefic Rapture around them.

  • Affliction is visually underwhelming. The low playrate of Affliction is not only due to the speccs clunkiness cough Siphon Life, but it’s confused and poorly executed fantasy theme as already apparent in Darkglare being our big cooldown. Our DOT’s have no projectile and just add different layers of purple smoke, which would be okay, but our core fillers and spenders have barely any visuals. Drain Soul is sometimes so thin that it looks like my character is draining nothing, it needs a more impactful look, such as Shadow Priest Void Torrent. Vile Taint is a nothing but a tiny cloud of smoke, Phantom Singularity has a cool name but again barely visible. Haunt has had the same visual since WOTLK. However, the worst offender is our spender Malefic Rapture, which has a great impact sound, but its barely visible and again no projectile of any kind. Compare gameplay videos with Destruction throwing Chaos Bolts and Infernals while Demonology is surrounded by imps and raining down Hand of Gul’dan; Affliction has utterly pathetic and non-existent visual impact. The only thing that is carrying the specs thematics is the sound design, which is still underwhelming compared with other Warlock speccs or even ranged casters like Balance/Shadow/Fire/Frost/Arcance.

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Would not mind… Affliction can way more thematic matching cooldown that a demon.
Like Soul Storm haunting close by enemies… so many cool possibilities :slight_smile:

if u want to fix demo i have some ideas that will be really cool and fun

  • make GWD warlock class tree remove Grim feast no one use it .

  • and replace GWD in the demo spec with a new talent that make tyrant infuse with u called (Tyrant Infusion) : your spells dmg increase by X% and summon 2 portals that cast Shadow bolt and make the caster shadow bolt and HoG cast time faster . it will be fun because it will be like meta it will be a win for every warlock love meta and make the spell give the warlock wings like Tyrant and it will be every 1 min with GWD. this will fix warlock dmg profile from pets to u and Pi will not be a problem anymore

Hello everyone I would like to share my opinion about the changes of the warlock, namely the specialization of destruction, since this is my favorite specialization.

THE GENERAL BRANCH OF THE CLASS

  1. in short, the class branch is completely boring and the choice of talents in it is as obvious as possible. The thing is that most talents are completely useless and it is very difficult to even think of situations in which they could be useful:
  • FELL PACT - a talent that does not raise our survival rate, nor does it raise our damage, nor does it increase our usefulness to the team. The idea of it is quite simple, the smaller the recharge of FEL DOMINATIN, the more often we can quickly reprise our acolyte in battle and do various useful things. But 2 minutes is still a HUGE amount of time that the difference in recharge is not noticeable. Moreover, even if this talent cost 1 point and it would reduce the cooldown of the ability to 1 minute - it would still be bad, since any competent warlock always knows what kind of pet he needs in a particular battle, and if he needs to re-lick the acolyte already during the battle, then it will not be difficult to save FEL DOMINATION for this, because in general, the ability is not often used. The idea to solve this problem is that it may be worth making this talent from 1 point, and instead of reducing the recharge, give an additional charge to the FEL DOMINATION ability.
  • RESOLUTE BARRIER and DEMONIC RESILIENCE - extreme talents that you don’t even want to get close to, since not only are they weak, they are still worth 2 points. You can safely delete them, and no one will even complain about it. We urgently need to add more interesting 1 point talents to their places.
  • GRAND WARCLOCK’S DESIGN - how much can we say about the fact that the place of this talent is just in the branch of the class. I don’t think the developers don’t see what the players write in the reviews. However, this change is still missing. Obviously, there are a number of reasons why this is still not the case. Firstly, the summoning of infernal, Tyrant and Darkglare are in the branches of specializations (and at the 3rd level, when all other classes can get their bursts already in the 2nd). Secondly, talent would be a clear favorite. Therefore, to solve this problem, the summonings must be moved to the class branch or made the default abilities, and to compete with GRAN WARLOCK’S DESIGN, add strong talents, for example, covenant abilities. Agree, boring Inquisitor’ gaze and summon soulkeeper look pathetic against their background.
  1. the non-competitive sargerei technique and socrethar’s guile. Level 2 talents are at the center of the branch. Boring and similar to a simple reinforcement of a weak class in Patch Notes. This can be done simply in a fix. All this is called a “crutch”. You need to remove the talents and come up with something else. To increase the damage of a class in the branch of specialization, the skills of the covenant or the summoning of guardians at the 3rd level are better suited.

DESTRUCTION

  1. the main problem with this specialization is that there is simply a HUGE amount of talent in it that costs 2 points. AS MANY AS 15! No other specialization of other classes has so many of them. This is not correct, since it leads to the most depressing increase in various improvements, as well as to almost standard non-diverse builds, because 2 point talents are very greedy, which means no one will want to spend 2 points to get out, for example, to another interesting talent.
  2. Destro is the most interesting branch of the entire warcraft for 3 reasons: the best system of combo points in the game through fragments and shards, chaos bolt and rain of fire. The point is to competently accumulate fragments and use one of the spells - chaos bolt in 1-2 targets, rain of fire in AOE. And the most beautiful thing is that these two abilities make up a significant part of the total damage, unlike the same shaman element or druid balance, which have filer abilities in the first place in damage. It is impossible to deviate from this principle, which means that when Shadowburn appears, it becomes strange to play. This ability clearly spoils the rotation and the basic principle of dealing damage in this specialization. An extra button, which is good only because it is instantly used, which means it is played only in PVP. After all, even for PVP, there is nothing beautiful like watching when your opponent loses half of his health from one of your chaos bolts. Idea: add a dimensional rift instead of shadowburn, add a 10.2 set effect down the talent branch.
  3. for channel demonfire, add an improvement to the set set of the current season. It may be worth moving the channel to the right side of havoc - closer to sclading flames, which would be more logical. Also, the Improved Immolate talent looks strange, because the meaning is similar to the improved channel, only the talent itself is much more boring. It’s worth deleting it and adding something more meaningful.
  4. as it is already clear from points 2 and 3, it is not necessary to force players to play with orpedelennye abilities by adding a complete effect. It’s much better if you offer more improvements for these abilities so that playing with them is more enjoyable and interesting, but still not necessary.
  5. from the point above, it is clear that the effect of the new set set is bad, as it forces players to play in a way they may not want to. Imagine that if I don’t take the DIMENSIONAL RIFT talent, then the benefit of the kit will be ZERO. So I have to take the talents that are higher than the DIMENSIONAL RIFT, because otherwise I won’t go out to him. The best set for destro is a set that improves either a chaos bolt with a rain of fire or is tied to shards (accumulation/ proc for return/gain for damage from spending shards), since it’s all built into specialization, which means it doesn’t affect what talents I want to take. Please developers COMPLETELY change the kit!!!
  6. CATACLISM and INFERNO are two very cool and interesting talents. Why not give players the opportunity to play with both. INFERNO is a strong talent for large AOE damage from ROF, but it is much more pleasant to play with CATACLISM, since it bypasses the routine in AOE rotation with a spread for each IMMOLATE target. Idea: remove the PYROGENECS talent, move ROF to its place, and CATACLISM to the place of ROF. This will allow you not to take ROF in situations with light AOE, but at the same time take CATACLISM, and also allow you to have a combination of CATACLISM + INFERNO + CHANNEL, if the CHANNEL is still moved to the right side.
  7. removing Madness of the Azj’Aqir and replacing it with Chaosbringer weakens ROF by 15%, which is not pleasant at all. As well as the lack of 20% accelerated use of the chaos bolt will also affect both damage and mobility. After all, the faster we can apply the chaos bolt, the faster we can dodge the damage. The change is bad, because it does not solve the problem with mobility, so it also reduces our damage.
  8. changing Grand Warlock’s Design is very strange. I can’t understand why they did it, because the old talent encourages you to play correctly, and you get pleasure when you manage to reduce the cooldown of the infernal by 1.5-2 minutes. It is better to return it as it was and transfer it to the general branch, as already mentioned above. This will also make it possible to choose RAIN OF CHAOS.
  9. for crushing chaos, it is better to make it stack, and also work from any call of infernal (RAIN OF CHAOS + Summon infernal) and blasphemy. Naturally, reduce the number of these stacks for each call to 1/2. Thus, it would be much more interesting to combine talents.
  10. it is also important to say about Infernal Brand. Players have been complaining about the uselessness of this talent for a long time. It gives a minimal increase in damage both in the raid and in the dungeons! I would like to say that simply increasing the damage for him will not help this talent in any way, since CRUSHING CHAOS is already in its current form much better than Infernal Brand. We need to come up with something interesting for this talent. The idea: to make this talent one-point, and the damage is what it would be now with 2 points (6% and stacks 15 times). It would still be weaker than CRUSHING CHAOS, but due to the fact that it costs 1 point to Rain of Chaos or GWD, you can get close to saving an extra point. This would allow you to take all 3 of the lowest talents (ROC/GWD, Chaos Incarnate/Dimensional Rift, Blasphemy) at the same time, which would be very cool.

Thank you for reading to the end. I tried very hard, and I hope that at least something of what I wrote, the developers will take into account. If you liked this post, please like it

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So I have a few issues with the new warlock tier sets. Specifically with the destro tier set.

Destro:
I’m not against the idea completely, but there is a big issue in that destro will most likely just ignore their new tier set as it is in m+, because taking dimensional rift as a talent means giving up one of the other two capstones, and those two are just better than rift even with the tier bonus.
This is because the new tier doesn’t actually do anything for aoe, since the chance to proc an aoe rift from the set is completely rng, and also doesn’t do much damage. So I hope you take a look at that and make it viable outside raid.
(we always take grand warlock’s design and avatar of destruction in aoe, as the tier currently looks it won’t beat these two capstones, which means our tier will be disabled in any aoe situation, it needs help)
Maybe an idea could be giving us dimensional rift as an ability through the tier set without having to select it on the tree? Or you could move rift to another talent position on the tree so it doesn’t conflict with the capstones. Or last option i suppose is just buffing it insanely high so it beats the other capstones. Something needs to be done though, I’m sure you don’t want the set to be dead in aoe.

Demo:
For the demo tier the issue is that the chance to summon a demon after doom brand explodes should probably just be 100%. The demon doesn’t really do much already. The whole having to pump demon bolts into a main target for doom brand is super awkward for m+ too.
I would also suggest a way to aoe spread doom brands, because currently the playstyle will be to tab target demonbolts in aoe situation. Demonbolt one target, demonbolt another, demonbolt another and then cycle through them to reduce their doom brand durations. Really degenerate gameplay as it’s looking right now without iteration.

Aff:
(remove siphon life).
Why does the set only apply to malefic rapture? We use seed of corruption in aoe, not rapture. The set should apply to seed too.

In general feedback, I just feel like warlock is almost the only class where the change to the new talent system made the spec designs worse instead of better.

  • The class tree is still insanely bad, the capstones aren’t exciting, and it just feels super underwhelming in general, It’s just set in stone.

The trees for the specs themselves also leave a lot to be desired.

  • Like netherportal seems like an afterthought now. And I don’t understand why you would cap demonic tyrant in a demon summoning spec. It feels like we got neutered. Same with lowering the demons summoned through other talents, and making tyrant not affect all demons. Like what is our class fantasy again?

  • Why is doom still in the tree? It’s been there for years and never been used.

  • Why is siphon life still there? Literally no one likes that spell. Please remove it already. We are just forced into playing it every single time and it sucks so much.

  • Destro has this weird talent right before inferno/cataclysm that doesn’t make much sense: pyrogenics. I would like to see this removed and inferno + cata becoming seperate nodes on the tree. As it is, we will never get to use cata because inferno just outperforms it. Delete pyrogenics and put either cata or inferno in it’s place. Or make cata baseline.

  • You should really consider adding dark soul back. I don’t know anyone who didn’t like those talents, and it would solve one of the capstones in the general tree. It also doesn’t cause issues with “too many cds” as you can just make it off gcd + the eye (inquisitors gaze) is so incredibly rng that I don’t see a reason for it existing, it only makes things annoying

Let me put some positive feedback here too actually:

  • Volatile fiends seem like an interesting talent.
  • Glad that you removed madness of azhaqir, that one was really starting to get annoying
  • Aff is the one spec that is constantly getting better over time, so good job, keep going
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Spec: Destruction
Content: PvP
Exp: 2.5k+ current season in 3s / multipile gladiators on the spec

The removing of Madness is a good change for destru considering now even 1 bolt casts will get rewarded, But i would like to see some compensation to Shadowburn DMG in PvP, Considering now that the cast time reduce is gone from CB it will be harder to chain bolts . It would be nice to see SB doing some noticeable dmg considering it costs a Shard. So we can press SB right After CB making it a “good to feel” burst.

Set bonus:
2set: This set will be insanely strong for PvP Immolate is already top dmg , And from my testing we can get down 6 portals with good rng… GOOD RNG.

I’d reccommend putting like a 2-3 sec CD on the procc so we cant chain 6 in a row which is nearly unhealable dmg .

4set: It looks cool… Sadly thats all it has going for it. Right now in PvP the 3 other portals have more value than the 4set one. Making it so we literally nerf the spell by picking 4set. Especially bcs the dmg on the fire portal is much more avoidable than the other 3 Like outranging (maybe this is a bug) , i’d like to see the dot dmg stacking up like it did in legion. making it so if people dont “avoid” the portal it will be threatening over time.

I’d say we need some tuning at Blizzard hq to begin with.Enough with these deaf and blind class developers who have been ignoring the feedback we’ve been given for months now.Enough is enough.

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What is the point of nerfing a specialization that has been playing in the F tier for two seasons in the keys? First you reduce 25% of the felstorm’s damage. Next, you change one word in the talent description and thereby reduce all damage from pets, because the dreadstalkers debuff no longer increases their damage. Then you steal one of the dogs. And this is in a season that is about the shadowflame!

I think all the demo were waiting for enhancement in Season 3, but in the end there were new nerfs that finally will bury the specialization.

-minus mobility

-minus tyrant burst

-minus burst Pit Lord

-useless set that does not affect rotation and skills

And to compensate, you give the shadowbolt boost, which in fact will remain filler even if you boost it by 200%. Why not immediately remove the specialization from the game if you don’t like it so much?

I think that the demo specialization is a class-forming one for warlocks. I love this spec very much. And that’s why I don’t understand this attitude towards her. Sorry for my bad english

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