Feedback: Warlocks

Agony duration is 18 seconds only the first time it is applied. Depending on when you refresh it it is extended to a max of 23 seconds. For example if you refresh your agony at 5 seconds (which is something that every good affliction player should do) it is refreshed at 23 seconds. If anything this is a very minor thing for now. Affliction’s problem’s lie mostly within their capstone talents that feel underwhelming except Malign Omen maybe.
Nerfing Hellcaller was also very impactful on the spec. Should they change some stuff, it would be the cooldown on Vile Taint which 30 sec makes 0 sense and of course to remove it’s soul shard cost because it is only there to apply agony, curse and increase the damage of your malefic rapture. And maybe add some meaningful capstone talents.

On the recent beta build Doomguard doesn’t cast shadowbolt volley anymore. Is that a bug or intented change since it is not confirmed by a blue post ? I do hope it is just a bug otherwise I will be very dissapointed just as many other warlock players…

Also Infernal bolt from Mother of Chaos buff happens way too quick to respond because of the 0.5 sec cast time. Please consider making the cast time even with shadowbolt.

This talent’s tooltip below can be confusing / unclear to warlock players - especially new ones.

“Foul Mouth: Increase Vile Fiend’s damage by %20 and Vile Fiend’s Bile Spit now applies Wicked Maw.” “What is Bile Spit and what does it do ?” can be bit hard to find out. I think it can be added to Vilefiend’s tooltip.

Cant see Soulshards anywhere as Destro with Blizzard Default UI

I don’t really know how “Soul Harvester” is about having a Demon inside… sounds like kind of Venom fan kind type design. Harvest Souls… souls slayer, with mind blowing souls reaping animation from enemies body. What went wrong again with Affliction…

I think Diabolist is only which hits in any theme mark. Lost opportunities.

Agreed. Tbh, I thought Soul Harvaster was gonna be about inevitable demise + drain life yet it got removed from the game lol.

Hello Warlocks.

This beta build contains several changes that have been implemented based off feedback we received over the past few weeks. Before we dive into those though, we wanted to thank you for the bug reports that have been sent in. We are continually working through those reports so expect fixes in this build and future builds.

Without further ado, let’s get into some of the changes you’ll see for Warlock in this beta build.

Demonology

We’ve redesigned Doom to be passive, like the seasons 3 and 4 tier set bonus in Dragonflight. The primary reason for this change is to reduce the increased number of actions per minute we observed during playtesting. Additionally, Demonology has a lot of plates to spin as it is, and it felt that adding an additional cooldown to watch was a bit much.

It is also because of this reasoning that we’ve removed the cooldown reduction for Power Siphon from Blood Invocation. Further, Blood Invocation caused a desync with most Demonology’s cooldowns.

Destruction

Summon Infernal has returned to the center of the Destruction tree to serve as a powerful cooldown for players to look forward to unlocking while leveling. We’ve returned Dimensional Rift to the third section as well with a new talent that adds cleave functionality to your rifts.

To retain accessible pathing through the center section of the Destruction tree, we’ve had to remove Infernal Brand and condense Crashing Chaos and Rain of Chaos into a choice node.

Thank you for the feedback and we will continue to keep an eye out for any further feedback and discussions.

After a lot of testing, the new version of Doom is even worse than before…
Honestly, you did something so well thought out on your 1st rework that it leaves a really bitter taste, a very bland gameplay.
You have to put the Doom back as on the 1st try, that it summons a guard at 100% and this last can cleave, otherwise as we can see currently it is useless
It was simple, just reduce the damage and not touch anything else

You had done a really good job, I really don’t understand why you went back on it

After the last build you implemented yesterday there are a lot of problems with demonology, including the following bugs that have appeared:

  • Stop nerfing down Mark of F’harg, for god’s shake this ability has been nerfed to the ground and it feels too undertuned now. You might as well remove it from the game.

  • Again there has been no information regarding Pact of the Ered’ruin. Is the doomguard going to only cast 1 doom bolt at a time ? Because if it is then the talent is never going to be played. Its literally worse than Sacrificed Souls which is a talent that should have been removed. Another issue with this talent is that doomguard’s proc chance, is BAD. FIX this. Simply copy paste the tier set of season 3 and season 4 of dragonflight with 2 changes. Make the spawn of doomguard 100% and give him back his doom bolt volley that has been removed, while nerfing down it’s damage.

  • While i like that you listened the warlock community in returning doom as a passive, its currently bugged. After testing it, consuming a demonic core does not always apply doom to a target.

  • Now, going from dragonflight to the war within demonology has lost his ability to gain exponentially more demonic core procs. That said this “capstone” talent called Immutable Hatred, and i will say this with all my heart, is USELESS. Like in what scenario, consuming a demonic core proc makes my pet carve its target is good ? Not to mention that its so undertuned, you dont even understand if you did any damage with it.

1 Like

I kinda hate the current doombrand weaving we do on live with the tier set, so im not excited about the Doom changes on beta. It will be interesting to test with the lower amount of cores.

I have two ideas for Doom that I feel would better and good QoL.

  1. Keep the application method, keep the duration reduction from spending cores, but cap Doom to 1 active application at a time. Buff the damage and make it guarantee/much higher chance of summoning a Doomguard.

  2. Change the application of Doom to Hand of Gul’dan and have it AoE apply Doom to all targets hit by Hand of Gul’dan (Just like Hand of Doom). Reduce the chance of summoning a Doomguard and also reduce the damage of Doom or just remove the splash damage of Doom as its not needed when every target has doom.
    The damage of Doom could also scale with how many Doom applications currently active, so that the more Dooms active, the less damage it will deal. This way it can be competitive in both ST and AoE.

There are so many ways to tune both ideas to be good in both AoE and Single Target, and not completly broken or useless in either.

In the current form of Doom, I really hope its undertuned so I dont have to play it.

Although I agree it was fun to have a bunch of doomguards, that version wasn’t healthy at all gameplay wise. Imagine you are in a m+ and there are some mobs with very low HP in packs. You would have to keep spamming doom on dying ones and also have to watch your doom resets - not fun. On the other hand, I agree the Doomguard cleave should have stayed.

1 Like

Putting another talent behind "when you consume a Demonic Core " together with, again, reducing the total amount of Demonic Cores we get over time.

  • Spiteful Reconstitution: Consuming a Demonic Core has a chance to summon a Wild Imp
  • Doom: Consuming a Demonic Core reduces the duration of Doom by 2 sec
  • Doom Eternal: Demonic Cores reduce the duration of Doom by an additional 2 sec
  • Immutable Hatred: Consuming a Demonic Core makes your Felguard carve the target

If you’re gonna keep reducing our Demonic Cores, you have to make ALL of these work with Shadow Bolt. Make Shadow Bolt do 25-50% less of the effect, but it needs to do something. Otherwise it’s not worth taking these talents.

In the same vein, it’s time to increase the chance to proc Demonic Calling when you spend a Demonic Core. When we do get a lot of Cores, there’s a lower chance to proc Demonic Calling and have to hard cast it.

Turn Doom back into an active, put a 1target limit on it, whatever you need but don’t try to make us do S3/S4 Doom spreading with half the Demonic Cores of the previous seasons.

3 Likes

Did some quick testing on dummies and here what i found ;

  • Lacking guranteed demonic core procs hurts Tryant setup a lot. Even we have the new talent that increases the imp cap to 15, I could barely get 10 imps - even while rotation was going on, not only on pull. I know you guys don’t like it but yeah - Loosing %100 demonic core proc chance from dreadstalkers still hurts.
  • The balance between fillers / capstones are really off. Shadowbolt and Incinirate doing a lot more damage than most of the capstones.I know it is still early beta and some set of tunning will come but i think as players, at least we need to get the feeling of the new talents roughly to give you guys healthier feedbacks.
  • Doom seems to be the most problematic department to be fixed both for developers and players at the moment. Turning its application to passive was a good move for sure, but loosing doomguard’s shadowbolt cleave still doesnt feel right/fun.I think reverting the change and bringing back the season 3 tier set fully would be the most acceptable and easiest solution.
  • I couldn’t understand why the 4p bonus been nerfed by %50 while the proc bug is fixed. It almost doesn’t exist on the dps meter now.
2 Likes

Why cant Warlock have access to Infernal as a pet like in Legion?
Thematically it makes sense. Instead of a dumb little imp.

The redesign is so much worse gameplay wise.
Its a good idea to bring back Doom like current Doom Brand. Doom brand works and is very liked.
But our core economy is absolutely horrible on Beta.
Getting 2 Doom’s out is a miracle.

Also the whole left tree is bugged out.

  • Doom: If you cast demonbolt, apply doom on 1 target, then cast demonbolt on a second target, that demonbolt won’t even apply doom. You need to wait 3s after applying your first doom for it work properly on a second target…
  • Impending Doom: doesn’t summon a wild imp when doom expires.
  • Pact of the Ered’ruin: The Doomguard is a watered down version of the doomguard on live with S3/4 tier set. It literally doesn’t do any aoe so its completely worthless.
2 Likes

I have always been an affliction witcher, in my opinion one of the last expansions in which we were best was legion, since those we have not lost our heads, and even less so in mythical+ where we have always been rejected by our spec… I hoped that in this expansion Blizzard would listen and return us to the first line, but I have been testing the afli in the beta and I found it disappointing for several reasons:

1- The disappearance of the seeds, it is like our sign of identity that they have eliminated it makes no sense, this already happened in BFA, SHADOWLANDS and it was recovered, and now they eliminate it again… blizzard does not stop lurching from one side to the other with this ability without any criteria or reason.

2- Large periods of time without fragment regeneration… I don’t feel that this happens to the other specs, but there are many times in which I am forced to spend long periods of time draining all the time due to not having fragments.

3- Boring rotation, right now we use malefic for everything, ST/AOE… I find the build tedious.

4- The hero talents compared to Destro are visually a mockery, the icons have changed, yes but nothing more, the hellcaller build is visually a horror.

5- Ridiculous end nodes: embrace of death, 5% more damage with 20% less health? what joke is this? Malefic touch damage is ridiculously low, and let’s not pretend cunning cruelty isn’t working with drain.

I don’t know what opinion all of this deserves for you.

1 Like

I really disagree, the gameplay was smooth, no problems with generating shards… It gave an “execution” side when the pack was at the end of its life.
The only thing to do was to reduce the damage, but not much when you see most of the other DPS
I don’t know, they manage to release something really fun and destroy everything in 1 update…

Speaking from a purely PvP point of view.

Just hit a few solo shuffles (former 2900 Destro main in Dragonflight), and Destro damage is beyond abysmal in PvP.

Folks have 8+ million health.
Chaos bolts are hitting for 400-600ks.
Soulfires hit for 500-900ks.

It feels as though the Overfiend damage and cast speeds were nerfed (and rightly so), but now that Destro is relying on its own damage to get things done, it’s all tickle damage :grin:

In addition, I’d love to play more with Diabolist, but the screen clutter with Rifts/Overfiends/pets is already a bit much. Adding giant Pitlords into the mix is a leap too far for me.

Also return to us cast while moving, please! Melees have 99% uptime on us anyway, but at least we’d get to have fun while being dunked.

Besides all this, actually quite liking the actual gameplay!

2 Likes

Demo is a mess of bugs on current beta. You really can’t get a real picture of how the class plays since most of the talents are bugged in some way:

  • Doom: Sometimes doesn’t apply.
  • Impending Doom: Doesn’t spawn an imp when it expires
  • Pact of the Ered’ruin: i do not know if its normal that doomguard is just a fully watered down version of current S3/S4 doomguard from the tier set but it just blast single target on the target you were attacking when it was summoned and literally doesn’t swap.
  • Shadowtouched: Straight up doesn’t work
  • The Houndmaster’s Gambit: Straight up doesn’t work
  • Fiendish Oblation: Doesn’t give a shard when Grimore: Felguard expires.
  • Empowered Legion Strike: Still doesn’t buff the felguard legion strike.
2 Likes

I’d like to offer some decidedly feel-y feedback concerning the damage breakdown created by the new Hero Talents, focussing on Affliction. As it stands, Wither for Hellcaller and Shadowbolt for Soulharvester significantly dwarf the other damage sources, making them appear or feel less impactful as they are.
(Note that I do not think that this is necessarily a tuning issue, as the other abilities are rotationally necessary to make the large damage sources shine.)

A relatively simple change would be to split each main damage source into two:

For Soul Harvester, that could mean listing Shadowbolts from Nightfall procs as a separate spell. Call it something like Soul Bolt or something fancier (and give it a special animation), so we can directly “feel” the impact of the amount of procs we created by using other spells.

For Hellcaller, it could mean splitting Wither and Acute Wither into separate damage events. The reasoning is the same: it would filter out the portion of the spell’s damage that we actively influenced in our rotation (and again, give it a special animation).

1 Like