Feedback: Warriors

Warrior looks promising, some things i would change:

  • Unbreakable Will talent for Protection should be for the whole raid and not only party.
  • Spell Reflect seems a bit long CD i would say 10 secs or have the effect of spell reflect always on you for the duration it lasts.
  • Having a group spell reflect would be really cool in some form
  • Skull Banner should be whole Raid not only party

Tank warriors damage is a lot to high … in every dungeon i was until now tank warriors out damaged everyone even top dps players.

err u never saw Blood Death Knight tank ? they prob even outheal the healers aswell :eyes:

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Hey, some personal feedback i have currently:

  • I feel like the berserker stance Fury gets seems so weak compared to the 3% crit battle stance arms is getting, i like having the option to pick what stance u want.
  • It’s nice they put sidearm in the main tree it’s somthing new and looks fun.
  • Wrenching impact seems really fun to play for grouping adds but the cooldown seems so high currently and the 10 yards isn’t quite that far
  • Is it possible to make Skull banner look less boring ? The way it looks is just plain orange cloth with a skull in the middle, i was thinking it would look so much cooler if it looked like the spell icon with the red cloth and skulls.
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Stances still pointless, yeah. Skull Banner needs a a bigger better visual and effect.

2 Likes

This isnt really feedback about anything specific but I just like to say that without doing a full review of the talent tree yet I really love the layout of both Warriors class spec and the Protection tree.

Some really intresting options and alternative routes to go down the tree, I feel like its one of the first trees that doesnt just play themself out and I really love that. Of course I havent fully gone through it closely yet but so far so good.

This is mainly for PvP reasons, it´d be too much. Unless, this change was for PvE only, it still would cause confusion in different scenarios.

Another PvP stuff :stuck_out_tongue: Skull banner is copypaste from War banner, which has red colour. Many people are used to see this ability as a red banner, so do something unique with Skull banner like make it bigger / different model / sound effect… etc. I think the current yellow one is placeholder for a while.

Is it intended, that warriors on PTR/Beta has a lower healthpool than on live at level 60?
At same Gear as a Fury 12k lesser health and as a prot 19k-20k lesser.

So how does everyone feel about the removal of skull banner ? I thought it would be a nice thing to have, but when i hear other people the reason why people disliked it was because it required u to move to ranged in the raid so they would get the crit buff ?

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After testing the new talents for warrior, the placement for bitter immunity feels bad for PvP, really derpy. Thunderclap hasn´t much value and we need to have picked improved thunderclap for it. I think bitter immunity should be below pain and gain, leading to honed reflexes.

OR…

Alongside blood and thunder (thunderclap spreads rend), the other choice node would increase thunderclap damage for 200%(?) if hit single target, making it viable choice for pure ST situations. However, I think moving bitter immunity would be easier.

Mainly Protection Warrior Feedback.

In terms of design Protection feels somewhat unfinished to me. I think that many ideas were consired, some were added but the overall flow doesn’t quite add up.

Currently Protection Warriors deal to much damge. Primarly i belive this is an indriect effect of the ridicoulus scaling warrior has. To summarize a few:

  • Vanguard (Tank passive) increases armor by 100% of your strength
  • Reinforced Plates (Base Tree) increases amor by 20%
  • Armored to the Teeth (Base Tree) increases strength by 5/10% of your armor
  • Enduring Alacrity (Protection Tree) increases armory by 5/10%
  • Focused Vigor (Protection Tree) increases strength and armor by 5/10%

If you skill those nodes, you basicly scale exponentially since armor gives you strength and vice versa.
Possible solution: Let the Talent points only scale of Base Stats provided by Items. This way you still profit from the effects but dont double dip to hard.

The next issue i have is the pathing/dependencies from the Base Tree. In my opiniton you will always skill into Thunder Clap since its one of your two main abilitys wich generate rage regardless of spent points in the Protection Tree. The same can somewhat be said about Avatar. Currently it’s cooldown is still reduced by Anger Management wich, if you pick it, kinda forces you into Avatar to get the most Value.
Possible solution: For Thunder Clap i don’t currently have an idea. For Avatar, you could try to implement a similar solution as protection paladins have. Have one Avatar in the Base Tree and another in the Protection Tree. If both are skilled, Avatar will give you Ignore Pain and Mastery similar to the Bastion of Might Trait from BFA.

The last big issue i see is Rend. Back in the day (i belive it was MoP) it was removed due to basicly only being used once in a pull since you extended it via Thunder Clap. The same behaviour is currently noticable. It still feels like a dead butten on Bosses, and for a trash pull in a dungeon it feels to slow to apply it, spread it with Thunder Clap (if talented) and wait for a Dot Tick to gain threat. In addition to that, from the core design its basicly the same as Deep Wounds, just another bleed wich ticks for damage.
Possible solution: Have Rend replace Deep Wounds passive, and make it only applyable with Devestate/Devestator. That way another dead button gets some kind of interaction. Thunder Clap could still spread the new Rend, if talented.

Hello, Warriors.

This week we’ve mostly been fixing errors and tweaking things for the Class, Arms and Fury trees. We’re happy with where these are at and don’t intend to make any large changes moving forward. Arms and Fury and the various options within seem to be preforming well and people are enjoying them, we’ll be monitoring feedback and tuning things where needed.

We’ve focused more on the Protection tree this week and provide more details on this below.

Class Tree

  • Bitter Immunity – Once again more easily available, but now no longer clears Bleeds.
  • Reinforced Plates – The armor values should now be correctly calculated.
  • Battle Stance – Now reduces the effects of Root and Snares by 10% (was 15%).
  • Berserker Stance – Now reduced the effects of incapacitating effects by 10% (was 15%).
  • Inspiring Presence – Tooltip updated to make its effect clearer.
  • Spear of Bastion – Now grants 20 Rage (was 25).
  • Elysian Might – Now extends the duration of Spear of Bastion by 2 seconds (was 4 seconds).
  • Piercing Verdict – Damage and Rage bonus increased to 50% (was 30%).
  • Endurance Training: Fury – Now increases Stamina by 5% and reduces the duration of moment impairing effects on you by 10%.
  • Endurance Training: Arms and Protection – Now increases Stamina by 5% and reduces the duration of Fear, Sap and Incapacitate effects on you by 10%.
  • Thunderous Roar – Now deals damage in a 12 yard radius (was a frontal cone) and also generates 10 Rage.
  • Shockwave – Now generates 10 Rage.
  • Avatar – Now grants 15 Rage (was 20).
  • Crushing Force: Protection – Tooltip should now correctly update granting 5% increased critical damage per rank.
  • Barbaric Training: Protection – Revenge damage reduced to 30% (was 40%).

Arms

  • Stormwall – Now has a lockout period of 1 second.
  • Dance of Death – Clarified tooltip to make it clear you are not required to get the killing blow.
  • Exploiter – No longer effects Cleave, the synergy here was odd and didn’t work in practice.
  • Fracture – Updated tooltip to not reference Thunderous Roar.
  • Bloodborne – No longer increased the damage of Rend’s initial strike.
  • Exploit the Weakness – Removed from the talent tree.
  • Deft Experience – Now grants 1% Mastery and increases Tactician’s chance to trigger by 0.5% per rank.
  • Rend – The initial strike of Rend’s damage has been increased to 64% damage (was 32%).
  • Massacre – Updated Massacre visuals.

Fury

  • Annihilator – Now generates 2 Rage per attacks.
  • Dancing Blades – Now triggers from procs correctly.
  • Annihilator – Can now be used with 2-handed weapons.
  • Rampage – Damage reduced to 206% (was 227%).
  • Hack and Slash – Was incorrectly triggering on every Rampage strike instead of casting Rampage. We like this functionality, so now Hack and Slash has a 20% chance with each Rampage strike to refund a charge of Raging Blow.
  • Storm of Steel – Now causes Ravager to generate 15 Rage per hit (was 10).
  • Critical Thinking – Now grants 1% critical strike chance per rank (was 1.5%) and the tooltip now correctly states that it affects Annihilator.
  • Annihilator, Slam, Thunderous Roar, Shockwave, and Odyn’s Fury should now gain extra Rage benefit from Recklessness.
  • Massacre – Updated Massacre visuals.
  • Wrath and Fury – Now increases Raging Blow’s damage by 10% (was 5%).
  • Slaugthering Strikes – Auras now display correctly for both Raging Blow and Annihilator, and it can now be triggered via Crushing Blow.
  • Bloodcraze – Can now be triggered via Bloodbath.

Protection Developer Notes

  • We’ve started to put more focus on the Protection tree this week and you’ll see a large update next week also.
  • We’re very happy with how Protection Warriors are playing, but they have been overperforming both in terms of survivability and damage, so we’ve made some tweaks to bring them more in line with the other tanking classes.
  • We don’t intend to make large structural changes to Protection Warrior’s trees, our goals for the next week are mainly around bug fixing, tuning and to make the bottom left and right sides of the tree more appealing.
  • We’ve made some changes to the baseline Vanguard ability to account for the large amount of survivability bonuses available in the talent tree.

Protection

  • Deep Wounds – Should now trigger Bloodsurge correctly.
  • Titanic Throw – Fixed an issue causing Titanic Throw to get the 100% bonus from Improved Heroic Throw twice.
  • Heroic / Titanic Throw – Now has a 3 second cooldown.
  • Auto-attack damage reduced by 20%.
  • Brace for Impact – Aura tooltip should now correctly reference Shield Slam. Now increases Shield Slams damage by 5% per stack (was 10%), but lasts for 15 seconds (was 9 seconds).
  • Spiked Shield – Now causes high threat.
  • New Talent: Dance of Death – If your Ravager helps kill an enemy your next Ravager lasts 2 seconds and deals 20% increased damage.
  • Champion’s Bulwark – Should now add to existing Shield Block durations.
  • Juggernaut – Has a maximum of 10 stacks for Protection specialization but last 20 seconds.
  • Massacre – Updated Massacre visuals.
  • Enduring Alacrity – Now grants 1% Haste per rank (was 2%).
  • Focused Vigor – Now grants 1% critical chance per rank (was 2%).
  • Vanguard – Increases your Stamina by 30% (was 45%), increases your Strength by 70% of your armor value (was 100%), and reduces damage you take by 5% (was 15%).
  • Revenge – Damage reduced to 53% (was 63%).
  • Shield Slam – Damage reduced to 80% (was 85%).
  • Punish – Shield Slam deals 10% increased damage (was 20%).
  • Best Served Cold – Revenge damage is now 10% (was 20%) and 30% when free (was 50%).
  • Unnerving Focus – Now grants 50% rage generation (was 60%).
  • Show of Force – Thunder Clap damage is now 20% (was 25%).
  • Booming Voice – Now generates 30 Rage (was 40).
  • Rend – Initial damage reduced to 32% (was 64%) and periodic damage reduced to 17% (was 23%).
  • Execute – Damage reduced by 8%.
  • Shield Charge no longer has a minimum range.

Brace for Impact currently stacks instead of overlapping, which is why it is incredible overpowered. Please keep the nerf in mind once that bug is fixed.

Could you change the reduce damage taken to perodic and magic damage only and revert it back to 15%? We will continue to struggle with these mechanics even more then we currently do.

Thank you

All the nerfs where justified, not sure yet if you did go overboard since some of the nerfs are double dipping, but we will see.

Please keep in mind that our 10% leech, our uncapped aoe and rage scaling with bleeds and the fact that nothing in heroic dungeons does any damage is enabling our current strength. Yes we needed nerfs and this was Justified. I just hope you keep the nerfs in check until we have access to harder content, where our uncapped scaling is naturally reduced and we no longer have the opportunity to trade survivabilty for damage, where damage also accounts for our survivability (10% leech is just really strong in easy content or the pull sizes you can only do in heroic).

What I want to say is: Dont measure us on low end content where we are currently gamebreaking op. Measure us on “real” content like M+ 15 - 25 and HC / Mythic raids. Currently I am a bit worried you might overnerf us for content that the majority ignores.

One last wish:
Please rework Storm of Steel. Currently it is a overall DPS loss in exchange for 60 rage for the entirety of a M+ run / a raid boss. A Keystone talent should not make you weaker.

New version looks much better.

6 Likes

This one was already bad when it was moved under Thunder Clap but now its just useless whitout bleed clear.

Its an okay one because we are able to duble charge and heroic leap while havin storm bolt and victory rush.

this is a huge nerf i cant tell why this is happening because the other big deal talents are not even close to this and speciali in pvp this is a very huge nerf this hurts. Its forcing arms to play bleed spec in arena what kinda mehh.

i want to see punishment aka “condemn” back in game because you said when teh talent was deleted you want to see big chunks massive damage from execute but its doing the same damage as before even with all the talets which are making it stronger Execute is still feels like a filler ability because slam + ww are doing much more damage when talented to it so i cant understand why was the punishemnt deleted and also you were deleted a whole playstyle i feel bad for that one.

1 Like

Arms, PvP perspective:

I fully agree with Masakerr, bleed clear was the reason to pick this one in PvP. I´d rather pick thunderclap talents again for the bleed removal effect on this one. I can explain to you, why we PvPers feel it´s important:

I don´t know how much you PvP, Linxy, but curses, diseases and poisons aren´t that threatening. They mostly affect warriors with slow effects and minor dps. I´d gladly exchange all those 3 clears for bleed removal. That way, this ability is a great defensive against a (assassination) rogue or a feral, which warrior usually has a hard time dealing with. I don´t think it would be overpowered against them due to it´s long cooldown.

The heal effect isn´t the selling point per se, but it´s a nice addition to give the warrior some breathing space. This is mainly, because in rated arena, depending on how long the match goes on, healing effects are reduced by x%, so the ability loses value. By having bleed removal, it would still be effective ability to use regardless.

Spear of bastion nerf is a big one, I don´t know about that. Otherwise I´m fine with the changes.

First, kudos on the new talent tree. Lots of good work has been put into the Warrior talent tree.

My suggestion is giving us some passive damage back for the sake of making our abilities feel good to use outside of cd’s. Shift some of the modifiers outside of CD’s and into MS/OP (Signature abilities for arms) and not into slam/rend like it was attempted in the past . Outside of CD’s, using abilities feels lack luster and disappointing.

It does not feel satisfying using my Overpowers as filler and multiplier boost for my MS and using MS outside of CD’s feels extremely lack luster and disappointing.

Ever since the game shifted to the CD burst window meta we have lost connection to the abilities we grew to love.

Endurance Training: Change the stamina bonus to something else, Mastery or even Armor.
to provide at least some benefits to the two dps spec, shockwave talents are gated for prot only because of the two node entry talent, which does nothing for fury or arms.

I think the design idea of the shared tree on the left is that it´s sprinkled with abilities that both can pick even if leaning towards tankiness / damage dealer roles. I´d too want to have easy access for shockwave, but I don´t think that fellow protection players would like their HP bonus removed, because it adds up for magical defence when armor does not. Also, it´d be really one-sided that the tree is filled with damage bonuses just for the sake of it. Keeps it more interesting to have utility and other traits, you´re trading up DPS for extra group utility that usually protection players pick. This is my opinion.

Could you make new connections between One-Handed Weapon, and Thunderous Roar and Spear of Bastion ?
So that we can choose either spell without being locked into a specific secondary stat bonus (like crit being suboptimal for prot warriors, denying access to Spear).

Please consider giving Fury back Battle stance, i can see that Berserker stance can be good in PVP but not PVE. Or at least give us the choice to pick it, I am happy u kept it on Protection. Also Wrenching Impact can be a fun new mechanic but the CD is WAY to high for anyone to even want to pick this. One way to fix the high CD maybe is still have heroic leap same CD and have a Debuff on the Wrenching impact effect. That way we don’t have to sacrifice our normal leap. Also 10 yards is kinda meh even Piercing Howl has a 12 yards range. For the rest i feel like Fury and Protection are going in the right direction. kind of sad to see skull banner being removed, it could have worked out if it would give the buff to everyone in party/raid. I feel like most people don’t really care about the battle shout buff anymore.