Not this crap again. The problem isn’t high ilvls rolling on stuff. If you bann these guys from rolling they will just come on non geared chars instead.
No the problem is how the loot is generated. Personal loot guaranteed useable loot. Group loot does not. With personal loot everyone had same chance to win, unlike with group loot where your chance to win depends on the raid composition. If there are lots of people with same armor or tier token as you, your chance is vastly lower than if opposite happens. Thats why I make my pugs with only me on my armor type/token and at least 5 drops. Gives about 5-7 items for a raid clear on average.
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Group loot does not reward loot depending on group composition. So when Puny is raiding with 10 other paladins she has basically no chance to get an item from the raid.
Personal loot just rewarded random players an item from their loot table. Basically ginving everyone the same amount of chance.
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Which isn’t an actual PL vs GL problem; the loot table could easily be adjusted while keeping GL rules (active rolling instead of rolls forces by the system in the background).
Getting loot from M+ dungeons is considerably easier thanks to PL than it is to get anything from a raid.
Replied to wrong person but statement is the same.
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This i agree with.
It is currently how blizzard has implemented it. But they can change it to groupcomposition depended rewards.
It is a PL vs GL thing. GL and ML are essentially same thing. Loot is first generated and then given to winner. With PL the winner is first decided and then loot generated. You basicly want PL with the ability to pass. Or maybe you just like the dices.
Edit: Another difference is that PL has a limit to how many items you can win.
I hardly beg to differ (for all the Tiers ever since GL came back). PL has always been the most annoying stuff when it comes to hunting certain pieces in comparison to GL. Its one of the reasons why people want Item Stacks in Dungeons.
We could argue its easier to get it from dungeons in comparison to PUG raiding where everyone needs on everything like the “mine mine mine” meme
Why do you think the person with 630 is there? For fun? to carry you? lol…
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And that limitation in combination with forced rolling simply causes frustration when “winning” items I didn’t want. GL gives me agency; and again - GL could easily be improved with loot table adjustments or even win limitations; as long as it doesn’t “force” me to roll on stuff I don’t want I’m fibe with that.
I got the most loot under PL, and geared up the easiest, including collecting transmog. Since the return to GL, the amount of useable loot has decreased, everyone just rolls need on everything, whether they need it or not or simply wish to sell it. Big increase in one person winning multiple items from one boss, which was super rare under PL. Getting full sets for transmog is also infinitely worse.
But people all have their own views on it.
So pug raiding. As I’ve said. Only area where I agree on it. As soon as you add organization to it PL becomes worse and worse as a loot source (also keep in mind Guilds were asking for it for Guild content only, not pugs)
I mean there is the catalyst (and we get charges post tier too, for instance I can still yeet my DF items through the Dornogal catalyst). And if you have a piece it serves as transmog for 2 difficulties in the very least through the upgrade system given it changes appearance at certain ilvls.
Only place where its still hell to obtain transmog is LFR and that really hasnt changed much. Transmog hunters also only really got at it the following tier or even xpac potentially even in the past.
Its the other way around. With PL only useable items will drop. With GL all items on loot table can drop.
With PL you can increase the chance of a certain item to drop by bringing lots of classes that has it on loot table. With group loot it is always the same chance.
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I had no issues in guilds with PL. We redistributed unwanted loot quite easily. It was only a very short time that you didn’t have higher ilvl than the drops or weren’t able to trade.
Catalyst is something you tend to have spare charges for much later on. I agree it’s possible but not practical to solely rely on. I run 7 paladins to collect the sets and it’s a nightmare. Was much easier under PL.
In which alternative dimension? Define “usable”. Because I can equip them? Thats not how it works. You can have non useable items in both PL and GL as far as the system is concerned. Please do tell me where I received a “usable” item in my 55 galakronds except the last one where the dagger finally dropped?
For Guild Raids: Organized groups enforced Master Loot anyway. But it made certain items that are class or even worse spec specific an absolute nightmare to obtain.
As I told Puny: Guilds wanted Group Loot for Guild content only. Pugs as far as I’m concerned can have the PL enforced everywhere even if its just to stop the whine (and people will also refuse to loot bosses as to avoid the “neeeeed???” whisper spam on roids just like when PL was a thing in raids)
Yes. And still I have a FAR better experience with GL over PL ever since it was brought back in an organized environment.
It still falls flat in comparison to GL.
So? If transmog is your #1 prio in a tier then I have bad news for you. It will always be annoying to obtain while its the active season.
For what are you running 7 paladins? For current season transmog? Yeah good luck with that instead of just waiting.
Or make the appearance roll Separately from the item. So I can roll need for an upgrade on an alt and you can get the appearance you want
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I know it’s annoying, but your problem is that you expect to get loot in a raid where there are potentially 30 other players that also want loot for whatever reasons.
In Dragonflight I won A SINGLE ITEM in four weeks.
Be patient and think of it this way, if you still need items from the raid, then it means you still have to run the raid and that means you have something to do.
You do know you just need a random item for each slot of the correct ilvl (which drops from weekly open world content) and can then transform in for free with the catalyst next season, yes?
Also that. So the transmog hunters cant complain and neither can the ones that need it for actual content progression since frankly content progression has higher value than transmog collection (and thats how the system is supposed to work anyway according to Blizzard)
Delete group loot! RWF whine about master loot thats why we get group loot! Bring back PL!
Or you know…make it an option? I know, its rocket science for some.
Also again: It was wanted for GUILD content. Not overall. You can solely and entirely blame Ion for that. The very same guy that thought creating sepulcher was a good idea (before having to admit it was the worst raid instance in WoW if not human history after the immense backlash) and who should have been fired years ago and barred from developing anything for life.
Same goes for the person that designed Halondrus and Tindral.