I have a friend group of five where we do m+ keys. At some point meaning over 10+ keys, we feel like we are forced to do some comps instead of playing the classes we enjoy. Our comp is currently DH Tank, Fury, Ret, Demo and Disc. We do not have Bloodlust in our comp at that prevents us from doing 12 keystones in-time. We fail with a minute or two. Why are we forced to play classes we do not like to succeed those keys? Why can’t we just buy Drums and use them instead of rerolling to a BL class?
Warriors are currently most useless class, even hunter’s pet can do BL but Warrior (known with their battle shouts) can not BL us?
Hate to be that guy, but as a MM i don’t even need pet to BL…
Haven’t checked if it’s also become baseline for BM/Survival.
Kidding aside, I would love for drums and scrolls to be buffed back to BFA levels.
Scrolls were 7% int/AP I think. (Not even sure if scrolls still exist)
And drums were like 25% instead of the normal 30% While worse, it wasn’t to much worse.
But at the end of the day, all it would really do is move where you’d hit the wall with certain comps.
As m+ keeps scaling, we’d reach a point, no matter what where you just need a specific comp to move further.
I think there’s a big difference between facing the wall at 10 or 12 and facing it at 14-15.
Oh 100%.
But just to be the devils advocate. This wall OP hits, how much of it is comp issues, and how much is l2p issues.
If with their comp, drums and scrolls were at the same effectiveness as BL and the buffs, would they all of a sudden jump 3 keys levels higher. Or just 1 for example.
And please don’t take this post as in any way throwing shade or trying to be toxic about it.
But reality is, some people hit the wall in +5 even with meta comp, other’s at +12 or +18. In my experience from previous expansions, when me and my friends switched to a meta comp, we’d maybe push 1 key level higher. It wouldn’t certainly make us go 3-5 key levels higher, hell sometimes it would make it even harder because we weren’t as comfortable/good on the meta specs.
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I think if you’re struggling to do 12’s on time its not the comp, its that you’re not very good as a group.
If you grow up and admit that to yourselves then you can work on the problem (getting a little better) instead of vaguely pointing the finger at some evil external factor as the source of your problems.
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This post has nothing to do with skill issue. If I’m missing a in-time key with a minute because I had 15% BL instead of 30%, it does not matter if its M+5 or M+15.
Has everything to do with skill there are many factors where u can lose a minute like deaths? Routing of the tank? If u guys use cd’s together or appart, etc
Listen I do not want to insult your intelligence so I’ll keep it simple. If I play better and make push my key to 18. Then deplete that 18 key with 30 seconds because I had 15% BL, what then?
Then youve moved the goalposts massively.
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But the point is @Warhearth, if you had a 30% BL as a drum or w/e, sure, you might be working on 13’s now. What then, what’s the blame for not getting to 14?
No matter what, the way M+ is designed, regardless of skill level, everyone is gonna hit a wall. You guys have hit it at +12, fair enough, could that be moved to +13 with a 30% lust? yea, so what?
And while you say this isn’t a skill issue, because it could have been timed with a 30% lust, doesn’t change the fact that it could also have been timed by playing better.
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Sweetheart, that is not the issue here. Trust me.
Yeah okay, please let us know what’s the problem
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You are missing the 2-11 kiss affix, so you might dont do enough dps, which can be a Gear problem or a problem woth your route. Try to pull as big as you can and what you can handle with cc and kicks, also try to pull around big damage cds - maybe pull trash on bosses if you can.
DONT DIE, especially w/o using defensives or a rotation of def and heal cds. Every death is a huge loss to the timer, especially if you need to run. Keep in mind: if you cant time it now without the big BL, more than 5 death will likely lead to a deplete.
The most common problems i see, is a dps issue overall, followed by bad routes or 2 mob gaming into too much deaths.
The problem is that you guys blame 30% haste every 10mins for depleting your keys.
There could be a multitude of problems.
Are the dps performing?
Is everyone using the correct build?
How is the cd management?
What kind of route are you running?
Is the tank chain pulling?
Are you optimizing your drums for big pulls instead of using them on bosses?
Is the tank pulling according to your comp?
Are you dying frequently?
A log would make these things easier to analyze.
Blaming it on BL is just an excuse.
I think the combo of fury and ret is kinda harsh. These two don’t compliment together IMO.
They compliment each other perfectly.
Tldr: most comps are perfectly viable for title range keys, even without buff synergies or BL.
Ret does only pad dmg while fury does prio dmg. On top of that their group has a 3% magic dmg buff and battleshout for the ret.
And they still have a demo lock that gets buffed by PI. All they have to do is playing around PI and grimoire: felguard.
Based on their comp they could time title keys with enough practice. They are playing critcakes comp, but they swapped the rshaman for an oracle disc priest. That means the warlock will survive anything.
Back in shadowlands s4 there was a double rogue + warrior comp (without BL) that easily timed title keys. The recent god comps really messed with our perception.
Disclaimer - Im no pro I just try to help constructively and give suggestions.
I was thinking based on myself, as Blood DK. I know dps warrs aren’t exactly welcomed recently but me, I compliment them by needing to constantly have targets (to not flop) and not being able to do hyperpulls (so I don’t get globalled at 14s 13s).
I feel fury would be perfect match with me and outlaw as I counter their target cap allowing them to pump constantly and Blood DKs usually play well with melee cleaves as we raidate aggro in our vicinity, less so when targets are spread.
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All good. Your comments are appreciated to get a discussion started.
Oh yes, Bdk and (fury) warri are a solid comp. Especially with an outlaw rogue you thrive in smallish chainpulls (up to 8 targets for the outlaw iirc). Squishvegan is doing something similar by pulling a prio target (usually high health target) into smaller packs and once the lieutenants die he keeps chainpulling more (smaller) packs to keep the uptime up.
In this specific comp I feel like an ele shaman or mm hunter would really compliment you all. Both do strong aoe dmg. The hunter gains value from the warrior while the ele shaman brings skyfury for the group and strong ascendance bursts.
Imo ele shaman fits so many different comps. Maybe I am just fanboying because I really enjoy running keys with them.
I am fan of less tactical comps and more edited by moderator comps, so I am kinda biased I admit.
Feels way better to play. I don’t enjoy my mage in m+, but my havoc on the other hand…it’s an amazing experience.