Free willed fallen night elfs make no sense in bfa

Lore Story
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This topic was talked about before during bfa and I just didn’t give it any thought before, but people here were right on the forms, about these fallen night elf’s.

With them becoming dark rangers and killing there own kind with there own free will makes no sense without some form of mind control.

Take the DK starting area for a fallen night elf having to kill a night elf captive.

*"The night elf version targets Yazmina Oakenthorn: *
*Come to finish the job, have you? I’d like to stand for… ? , I’d recognize that face anywhere… What… What have they done to you ? You don’t remember me? *

*When you were a child your mother would leave you in my care while she served at the Temple of the Moon. I held you in my arms and fed you with honey and sheep’s milk to calm you until she would return. You were my little angel. *

*Blasted Scourge… What have they done to you, ? You must remember the splendor of life, <brother/sister>. You were a champion of the Kaldorei once! This isn’t you! Listen to me, . You must fight against the Lich King’s control. *

*He is a monster that wants to see this world - our world - in ruin. Don’t let him use you to accomplish his goals. You were once a hero and you can be again. Fight, damn you! Fight his control! *

*Knight Commander Plaguefist yells: What’s going on in there? What’s taking so long, ? *

*There… There’s no more time for me. I’m done for. Finish me off, . Do it or they’ll kill us both. … Remember Teldrassil, our beloved home. *

This world is worth saving. Do it, ! Put me out of my misery! "

This works and makes sense because the night elf dk has the lich king control used.

  • Now jump back to current time with these fallen night elf rangers

killing there own kind with there own free will and joining the forsaken who killed them in the first place makes no sense.

Why do I bring up this topic again?
I just thought maybe since bfa is over there would of been more to the story added to explain all of this but what we saw with caila didn’t explain anything, its just disappointing unless I missed some quest event if anyone could add there own thoughts to this would be great I just feel like this is a huge plot hole/problem.

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Pretty much all of the war campaign just felt like lore butcherings, along with a good 50% of the main story.

Wasn’t a fan when it was fresh, still not a fan when it’s stale.

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Oh Gods did we need another thread on this? I can already feel the “But Teldrassil How!” “Blizzard Hate Night Elves!” responses coming on.

The difference, essentially is that one of those people, has the ability to actually see what is coming, express their wishes for their ‘murderer’ to not do so, come to resignation and even grim acceptance of it, and exhort them to live a better life, even though they themselves, are about to be slain.

The Others face violent deaths without any chance of such reconciliation of their fate.

I mean you are describing exactly the same process, just that the thought process is a little more explained in the DK starting zone. The Player Night Elf DK is still siding with the people who killed them in the first place, and the person to be slain is still reaching out to their free will, free will which we know they do retain, to a degree (Or rather, recover, at Lights Hope, or technically even before then).

As a Question. Why is this always an issue when it is Night Elves? Why is this question not asked about Lorash Sunbeam, or about anyone else? What is it about Night Elves that people think makes them impervious to undergoing the same mental changes with Undeath, that every other species undergoes?

People do seem to think Night Elves have some weird abilities that they are never actually described as having…

What is it about Night Elf Forsaken? Same as every other type of Forsaken, why should Night Elves be special?

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I don’t think I am alone in this, when saying - yes it is odd if someone gets killed by the forsaken and then all of the sudden will attack there own people pretty much right away.

That its night elfs doesn’t matter to me I would say the same about any other race in the game, it is very odd.

Take forsaken starting area - Marcus Redpath killed by the forsaken raised by them he turns on his killers since he has free will this makes sense.

Or High elf rangers who were turned makes sense they turned on there people they had no freewill, so they have this great tragic story element to them.

Night elf fallen rangers on the other hand total joke, and its laughable how the storyline for them after bfa and the fighting in darkshore is that we should feel sorry for them at least I feel the writing is attempting to pull off the same tragic story element with them with caila in tirisfal glades but it just doesn’t work because of a crucial story element and that is simply on free will.

Its to late but honestly these fallen night elf’s should just go the same route the dalaren mages did in Silverline forest back in cata who also right away just turned on there people and fell in line with there murders.

  • It didn’t happen and was made non canon - at least I remember been told that.
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What is different between that and…

Why?

I mean -especially- when you are talking about two types of Elves, who are actually directly related! Why is it understandable for one, but a joke for the others?

It doesn’t even take that much to see how it works. If you totally buy into Forsaken PLC, You keep your Free Will and so on, if you resist Not So Much…Until you come to terms with it, which admittedly, is something that both factions use to a degree. Just a reminder that your current friendly neighbourhood king of the Alliance thought nothing of removing people’s free will and imposing his Will upon them…Just sayin’ :slight_smile:

To be honest there is no reason that those Undead should be regarded any differently from other Undead.

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Because fallen High elf rangers had no free will - fallen Night elfs rangers did have free will.

And its not like the night elfs even thought it over right away simply joined there murderers. If that’s not odd to you then ok I guess, and yes to me these fallen night elfs are a joke for the reason I gave above.

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Because Lorash came to Night Elves territories to kill Night Elves, the race that he hates. After he was killed, Sylvanas gave him a chance to return, and kill more Night Elves, and he did agreed. There are no issues in that.

Other High Elf rangers? When they became free they joined Sylvanas, to fight against the Undead. Against those who killed them. Against those who killed their families.
After they gain free will they never were enemies to Blood Elves, to their race. Even now when Sylvanas became evil, they abandoned Sylvanas and stay with their race on the same side.

We had even a story about forsaken human in BfA. Who decided to help the Horde, just to save his family. But in the end betrayed the Horde, and helped to save Jainas brother.

Why the story with Night Elves is such an big issue? Because Undead Night Elves decided to fight against their own race, to kill their own beloved people, to be on the same side with those who killed them, to help spread plague and destroy their own lands, with a total free will.
And that was not a plan to betray the Horde in the end.

They just get up with a words - the Army of the Dead will win, Kill them all.

Why? No one knows. And that is also an issue. When you talk with Sira to find out why - she just says that she does not wants to talk about it. If you ask Delaryn, she just says that she have nothing left (well yes, because you helped to destroy all of it…)…

In case with Sira at least we had some story. But damn, in Orgrimmar another Undead Warden appeared.
I think Blizzard devs just did it for “Fun Service”.

We have only one example were forsakens were rising undeads, and those undeads were fighting against their own people. That happened in Andoral. Sylvanas was rising alliance soldiers that were killed, and those humans were fighting against Alliance.

Why there was no issue there? Because there we have an info, that those forsakens were mind controlled!!!

Night Elves Undeads are the only case, were new rised undead decided to fight against their beloved people on their own free will. And that is why its such a big differences.

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There was a little bit info in Calia quests.
As I understood from their words, there was some sort of Mind Control. They told in that quests that their " hate " was taken in the control and used against their own people.
For example Sira was keep saying all the time about how hard was her life as Warden, when Maiev is a leader. I agree that is pretty stupid explanation, but maybe some hate control was used by Sylvanas, and Sira became a hater of her own race.

Before Sira died, she was keep saying that Elune betrayed her people, that Alliance betrayed her people, that she will do anything for her people.
After she was rised, she was keep saying, kill them all, and I hate you Maieve…

Maybe Sylvanas just used some hate in her head, and make her became blind. It is a mind control.

Also regarding Calia. As I understood Calia will not going to be Horde. As I understood she will be a second Silvanas. Sylvanas was gathering up forsakens, to help them, and to revenge on Arthas.
Calia as it seams is doing the same.

So, if she will create a neutral faction, with those Night Elves there, it will be fine. Like explanation - Night Elves have lost that anger mind control, but could not return to their people after all what they have done, because their hearts are broken.

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hmm was it not only Sira who fought against the alliance, atleast that I recall, if more they must have been some realy random ones then.
and if it was only Sira, then not suprice she was horribly unstable before already, and totaly annoyed whit even Maiev.

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At this point you’re beating a dead horse. Blizzard doesn’t care, Sira and Delaryn don’t care, literally nobody cares anymore, so why do you?

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Well, on Warfront in the Alliance version, Delaryn appears with about 5 Night Elves Dark Rangers, at Lordanels point, when Horde ships have about 40 % hp left. She tries to destroy Alliance glaive throwers.

But I’m not sure that Warfronts should counts as a lore, because nobody dies on them.

As for Sira, there will be a book, where she with Nathanos will try to kill trolls loa. In other words Sira is one of the most trusted Sylvanas agents now.

Knowing also that Sira is a Warden, and Wardens are just ordinary soldiers, they are Night Elves fanatics, this does sounds like a big joke.

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Question is why did Blizzard needed to add undead Night elves in the first place, if they will not care about them in future?
I think the answer is pretty simple:

What have happened? Night Elves after most biggest defeat in their history, had their first ever victory against the Horde. That is overall look. But lets dig in details.
In details, it was not a Horde. It was forsakens and goblins that were fallowing commands of the Undead Night Elves.

In other words it was not a Horde that lost a war against Alliance there. It was Undead Night Elves that were defeated by normal Night Elves.

That is pretty smart for a company that hates Night Elves, and loves the Horde. Night Elves have lost everything. Horde did not lost anything. Not a single know character from the Horde side was killed, only Night Elves. Horde fans has an excuse that they lost because their leader was Night Elf also.
And after “such a victory” Blizzard are now saying that Night Elves are fine, they had their revenge.
Also Alliance have won a Warfront, now for balance reasons Blizzard can gave a victory in future Warfronts to the Horde…

And now, when those undead Night Elves mission is complete, Blizzard will just use Undead Night Elves models as a fan service…

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I’m so tired of hearing about elves, Sylvanas and the undead.

And I say that as an elf fan…

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At the core of the issue lies the fact that the age-old zombie trope of “turning your own against you” is “cool” and “metal”.

That means the writers want to use it. They want to have their cake.

But they also want to eat it. They also want Free Will to be some sort of Forsaken ideal to differentiate them from the Scourge and make them seem slightly less monstrous.

As a result, Undeath has become one of the most inconsistent things in an already very inconsistent universe. It’s not any deeper than that.

And to be honest, WoW writing has its seams laid bare so frequently and openly that I find it difficult to discuss it on anything other than Doylist terms.

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It doesen’t matter. It happened. Deal with it. It’s been discussed enough at this point. Other races aren’t arguing this hard when they become undead. Just calm down and keep playing. Or unsubscribe if it bothers you this much.

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I think this horse is now safe to say is classified as “undead”…

“A little curse never kept the vulpera from a worthy treasure” - Norah, Camp Lastwind

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We have a comedian right here. You’d fit in very well with the Sylvanas loyalists.

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Nah, hate that undead b*tch to the core
Or the Horde for that mater…
Just the Vulpies are in there so… kinda forced to play Horde if I wanna play a Vulpera

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And cause of Baine the Horde have to suffer. Sad :pensive:

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Well ,they say suffering builds character…

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