Healers Spoil Real PVP

Healers are the number one reason battleground balance fails; and why PVP itself is just frustrating and unfun.

Why? Because they’re way WAY too powerful.

They are both tanks AND support simultaneously.

Their healing can overwrite the work of multiple DPS instantly.

What does this mean? It means healers are objectively superior as a role when in a team based scenarios.

ONE healer is worth more than ONE dps. Therefore, if one team has more healers than another team? That is akin to having more players on their team than the otherside.

This is why balance is impossible without healer balance.

When a queue pops, and it allows more healers on one side than the other, well, they’ve just set up a game where one side has a substantial advantage over another. That should never be the case.

Why do they allow this? Because the queue times would take too long.

What becomes the logical solution to this problem?

MAKE EVERY ROLE EQUAL TO EVERY OTHER ROLE IN PVP.

1 DPS worth 1 Healer.

“Then nobody would play healer, it would be too hard!!!”

NO. You’re wrong.

Whoever said healer would be too difficult if it was equal to dps, was not thinking. They’re straight up saying “i want an unfair advantage”. THAT is what you’re asking for.

They are literally deities as they are now; unthreatened, walking around knowing they’re not under any serious threat. They have plenty of time to reposition to safety.

Here is how it is supposed to work in 1v1 setups:

Dps beats healer
Tank beats dps
healer beats tank

THAT is how it should be.

Not:

Healer beats dps
Healer beats tank
Healer beats everything unless you have multiple people.

What??? What are you even thinking with this?

I would design it so that tanks can mitigate the damage off a healer, that way, it actually takes another role for a healer to be as survivable as they are.

Right now, you just allow healers to be gods; and near every BG is decided by healer imbalance, barring more coordinated exceptions which rarely ever happen.

But even with coordination; if you have two coordinated sides, the side with more healers will always have the advantage.

It is just a hard advantage, and it needs to be fixed, because it spoils the game.

“But no one would play healer!” is not a valid argument. It doesn’t matter if no one plays healer, what matters is if it is FAIR. If one healer equals one dps? That is balance.

Also, one final note: Nothing is more boring than attacking an endless regenerating health bar, a health bar that regenerates faster and faster the more healers stack on them. It is just terrible design.

You put in all this work to get someone’s healthbar down, fight through all their defensive nonsense, they’re on their last healthbar, and!.. Healer instantly and indefinitely resets all progress.

It is just not fun, and is extremely frustrating and disrespectful to dps players.

7 Likes

is this only about random bgs lol?

2 Likes

Because Mana does not matter anymore. That decision ruined the whole game. And it was done because of PvE. Just get Spirit back on gear for all specs and add Talents to regain some Mana when needed.

3 Likes

Because healers oom harder than in the past and they can do a lot of healing. As a MW monk I can 1v1 any class. I even did 2v1 against two BM hunters while I was in full m+ gear with 0 versatility ( was taking more damage ) and I won.

I feel like healers shouldn’t be able to do dmg and heal at the same time.

Like, choose one. Either. But healing through doing damage will always be dumb imo.

I keep telling people that if there were no healers in PvP, it would actually come down to pure skill. DPS players would be forced to use their defensives and kite properly. Plus, there would be zero queue times, everything would be an instant pop. Please give us a mode where no healers are allowed, it would be so fun!

1 Like

Until everybody enters in a Battleground as a Rogue, Hunter, and Paladin :rofl: bringing a FOTM fever that we have not seen ever before :dracthyr_yay_animated: woooo sounds amazing guys, can’t wait wooooo!

Working as intended

Conveniently, almost all PvP modes currently enforce number of healers parity! (except in epic bgs and sometimes when backfilling already started bgs)

3 Likes

“working as intended”

And the argument is:

Intended is bad. Intended is inherently unfair.

Why point out “working as intended”, when my post was specifically pointing out the intention is inherently flawed and bad, and leads to objective unfairness?..

I KNOW they intentionally designed it that way, i’m saying it is badly designed for the reasons mentioned.

Second, healer numbers are enforced? Where? When? Literally every BG i play, there is usually always healer imbalance. I’m not sure where these mythical balanced PVP matches are.

Also, in regards to EBGs, why are they not enforced their also?

1 Like

ofc it is, because in arena there is this thing called campening, which im sorry, but its one of the reason real balance for pvp can never happen

the feel of arena will always be completely differnt THAN ACTUAL PVP.
1 healer has to be able to survive 2 dps with healing reduction double interrupts and multiple ccs training them

which is why in outside of arena and dampening, NOTHING DIES. and its insanely frustrating

ONE because u feel like u are just pressing buttons doing nothing concrete
TWO because if the other team doesn’t have a geared healer its an insant defeat 99 times out of 100.

2 Likes

True brother i agree 100% but why should blizzard compromise PVP balance over something as casual as random BGS? PVP should be balanced around competitive modes first. Random BGs are meant to be more relaxed, uncoordinated experience, so I don’t think they should dictate how healers are tuned.

Saw u on tiktok btw

uhm, do u believe random bgs are relaxed uncoordinated experience ?
because im honestly more chill playing rated most of the time..

as to why
well, maybe we should ask ourselves, WHY has pvp been dying for the last decade ?
maybe balancing the game around 3v3 hasn’t been working out very well?

hey if it were me id say balance it differently x type of content, but some guy said OMG THATS TOO MUCH WORK U CRAZY!11!

alot of people seem to not realize that arena is really not even close to the first approach to pvp people have… and if the beginner/entry level of pvp is awful, chances are people wont play pvp at all, OR WOW at all..

so yeah…. saying we don’t need new players, while simul making veterans quit constantly, MIGHT be the reason why pvp has been dying for a long time
sometimes blizzard seems to step in and understand when something is just turning players away

for exmample, in Dragonflight, fire mage was scaling incredibly high on aoe, literally the multiplier on living bomb x target was insane, and if u hit more than 15 people, that would make it an aoe 1shot

im not here to brag, but when it became clear that living bomb was working like this without any target cap, paired with the gravitational displacer it started becoming a quick aoe 1shot u could pull off (good players knew how to avoid some of this)

the real problem, was after that clip went viral, in NA, people started making sync groups of 20-30 firemages on epic bg, all with gravitational displacer… u can kinda imagine waht 20 times living bomb gravitational was doing to random groups…
people have started opening threads on the forum pointing at the fact that it was impossible to play, i know a few youtubers that brought the attention up and tagged me on the wow forum asw showing my clips and how broken the mehcanic was

gravitational displacer was instantly nerfed post DF
and fire was completely reworked in fact, first target cap to “lit fuse” new name for living bomb and then made it a passive, but blizzard f up anyway, and it was still possible to aoe 1shot, so they nerfed it by 163% and then they target capped it to 3 people, and once people have stopped taking it for 3 season of tww, they removed the spell

this was mostly because of bgs and epic bgs

so i can say, blizzard DOES step in when something is overwhelmingly overtuned, or imbalanced, but only if enough attentiong ets brought to it

right now… im not 100% sure, but i think i could pull something like that on boomie for example, and maybe on a few other classes, or even fury warrior

im too lazy to level, and practice just tog et things nerfed… mage has been bombed with nerfs and some of them i feel like they are literally target to me and my use of some spells

like, WHO HAS EVER, USED ICE WALL to climb WSG wall with the flag ? nobody. but now ice wall knocks u off when u jump on it…

yet, we have dh evo and some other classes that can leap on it with flag no problem.. weird huh? i can’t use a 2 minute cooldown to walk 6 feet, we got literal fly hacking classes…

im getting off topic here
anyway, when something is overwhelmingly bad for the community, it usually can be changed to the better

but it happens kinda randomly sadly…

1 Like

I get your point, and I actually agree that random BGs are many players’ first PvP experience. But I still don’t think they should dictate overall class balance.

If balancing around random BGs makes arena, shuffle or rated BGs worse, that’s not really a win either. I’d rather see separate PvP tuning between brackets than compromise competitive balance because random BGs feel bad.

Balancing in Random BGs because its something they can easily do? Why not.

I still wonder why they didn’t nerf the premade queueing cause thats the biggest deal breaker for most players. Not healers being strong.

2 Likes

true, well rn we cannot get ANY pvp tuning, so…

And pvp needs attention, the premades also ruining the randoms badly.

I do premades also with the guild, and i feel sorry for the enemy even before we join cuz i know they will be washed. Approx 10/10 win as premade. There should be something in place when a group of 5 joins a bg, on the other side also a group of 5. And if one team gets a homie green geared guy the other team also as a people with 250k hp is clearly 1 player less in a bg, not blaming the newcomers they all welcome. But its fair for them as well if they even have a chance to win anything and keep playing pvp, instead of facing in green the premades and get abused.

The fact that healers are FC means they are too powerful
just one that fact means something is off with them

just nerf the healers 50%

thats it problem solved

1 Like

The game invites the same number of healers for every team when the round starts.
If one team has 2 healers, 2 healers will also be invited for the other team.
Whether they actually show up is a different question.

Queue times, probably.

1 Like

But without healers a lot of classes would be at a significant disadvantage especially the ones who have no immunities and/or stealth mechanics, a.k.a. the ability to reset/control fights.

Then balance those classes also.

It is better than having one role be objectively superior to all others; and baking in inherent imbalance.