Horde lore discussion


#42

The only thing that can be said with certainty is that those former Brill citizens are not in Orgrimmar.


(Araphant) #43

But that did not prevent you from ignoring existing lore implications in order to paint a grimmer picture, now did it?


(Northgrave) #44

We do, they died during the Third War. Then they became undead shambling husks, serving to an orc spirit and lately to a horde elf. And now the saddest thing - even though the Alliance managed to bring peace to some during the Liberation of Lordaeron, some of the corpses are now held in Orgrimmar, bound by vile elf necromancers.


#45

Not really. I’m just pointing out a bias.


(Araphant) #46

Do you want me to point out that the Forsaken still mostly hold Tirisfal Glades and that more then one night elven settlement vanished in flames? Since we are pointing out “biases”.

I mean, I get it you guys are sad and all, but this is slowly turning into a comedy.

Night elves literally lose several settlements in-game, conquered by the Horde. The Alliance isn’t even given a chance to assault Brill, and we are chased out of Lordaeron with pitchforks after we assaulted the Blight Citadel with no gas-masks and had the entire faction reduced to a damsel in distress saved by Jaina.

The Horde: “We didn’t get a Forsaken POV, this is clearly Alliance bias.”

TL:DR:
You have every right to complain, but don’t complain by claiming the other faction had it great or better.


(Zarao) #47

I think that Blizzard doesn’t want to give much relevance to said events and would rather focus on the events that can have a bigger impact on the “good” heroes of BfA (Anduin or Jaina).
The Forsaken loss will probably be shoved under the rug because as of now, their leader is the driving “evil” of the story they want to tell regarding the conflict.

Weirdly enough, they decided to focus on only one side of the two events that were marketed initially as mirrored losses to kick-start the war.

The dispar treatment Teldrassil and the Night elves have had, when compared to the Forsaken and the losses, is rather marked.
Regardless of the fact both races are currently in pretty similar situations (regarding initial loss and the aftermath shown in the mission table).

It leads to believe that the initial approach they sold at players wasn’t really true. Can’t blame them.
Wouldn’t be an intelligent marketing strategy if they had come out in the open saying that the Horde would lose a city as “justified retaliation”, while also made to feel bad about the time they destroyed an enemy one.
As pointless as it might be given time, and once the story is unveiled, they had to keep a facade of neutrality and equality.
Regardless if when the whole thing was out, they’d handwave the loss of one faction while highlighting how horrific the other one was.

EDIT: Is the above bias? Probably. Regardless of how awfully they ended up managing the side they were trying to favour, point remains that the loss of Teldrassil has gotten all the attention required to mark it as a tragedy, while the loss of Undercity was been handwaved into something the race involved can’t or hasn’t been able/allowed to complain about. The Nazmir Forsaken Squad are even written to joke about it.


#48

Every race for themselves would only work if those were at least halfway equipollent, both lore-wise and regarding player numbers. It’s a fun thought experiment though and would certainly be a million times better than a “one faction for all” alternative.
As for now, I really have no clue where Blizz plans to go with the two faction concept. If their plan was for the players to despise their own faction at the end of BFA so much that they can disband Horde and Alliance afterwards without anyone caring, they did a damn good job so far.

As to the question if pure NPC antagonists could feel as real and interesting as playable ones- hmmm I’m not sure, but I tend to a no. The Scourge or the Legion, to name just two, are certainly terrible enemies, but fighting them just lacks the personal element :wink:


#49

…why? It isn’t as if smaller groups can’t make a lot of trouble. Especially if you throw in magic and technology.

Well, they aren’t really persons, since they mostly lacked personalities except being evil, so these two would be terrible examples. That’s why I gave two much more relatable examples with the NPC-Horde and Yrel’s army.

You’re certainly not taking my idea at its best.


#50

Scourge and Legion lack a personal element?
DK’s were enslaved by the Scourge before being freed
Orcs were enslaved by the Legion
Belves had their lands ravaged by the Scourge
Forsaken were enslaved by the Scourge
DH’s joined Illidan because of the Legion
Paladin’s saw their paragon destroyed before them by Krosus.
The Legion kill’s the leader’s of the Alliance at the Broken Shore and poison’s the Warchief during the battle
Their are ample reasons for the Legion and Scourge to be enemies with personal elements for both the Alliance and the Horde.


#51

Did it feel personal to you? Compared to fighting the other faction, especially? No assumptions, just interested.


#52

Yes, for some. No, for the one’s I haven’t played.

The entire DK Starting Zone is you under Arthas’s thrall and being forced to fight for him, despite your character being a former hero of your faction.


(Zarao) #53

Regardless of how truthful you are when pointing out the above, I didn’t feel like it was personal when I defeated KJ with my Orc, or Blood elf, or Forsaken.
Same for the Legion.

It may have had to do with representation, but I just didn’t feel it at all.

And with the Scourge, I only kinda felt it when doing such from the Forsaken perspective. Orcs got their motivation once there (after the Wrathgate), and elves were kinda focused on Malygos for some weird reason.
It may have had to do with Tirion soaking all the spotlight, but again, didn’t feel it.

When fighting the Alliance, it seems lot more personal.

Might be only me, but I’d probably have a more cathartic feeling if Talanji and Lorthemar went after Jaina, than going against Azshara.
Even N’Zoth seems rather alien to me. He has close to zero relevance or importance with the background of most playable races (Horde ones specially). Regardless if Blizzard is retconing and tweaking everything to make him seem like the puppeteer or mastermind of everything that went wrong lately.


#54

i still hope it happens, retcon like 90-95% of bfa.


#55

Want my high level ?
Here it is:


I am not playing that account anymore, because I decided to go back to my vanilla account.
Last time i checked i have 77 days in this character from Oct 2005 to July 2007.
My level 120 has 10 days played.

Btw here is my Alliance highest character in this account:

Than let us look at you shall we ?
Level 120 ?
I can boost to 110 and than power level.
My “main” level 120 don’t come even near the amount of time I spent in my 3rd most played character from ends of 2005-july 2007, my Orc Warrior from vanilla: 21 days played, 90% of them under level 60.

But keep telling yourself that WoW started in BfA lauch and never ever had any other periods in which people played for hundreds of hours in other levels.

3420 Hks ?
Sad sad.
Pick up the pace, slacker I have 27 305 Hks.
Even my TBC Holy priest has more Hks than you.
You sure are brave, trying to kill Alliance with lore.
When I want to fight the Alliance I log on to Bg’s.

A good Leader is the one that inspire his people, that’s how good Thrall Horde was in Vanilla.
Since classic is coming try ranking up to 11 Lieutnent General.
I had to take 7 days break and play 24/7 to achieve my final rank.
So good luck.

A bad leader turns everyone against him.
I must congratulate Sylvanas, she is such a good leader that made me actually stop caring about the Horde, War mode, PvP and levelling.

In vanilla, I couldn’t wait to get home and play.
In BfA, I have more fun writing in the forums.

Nope.
I am a Horde player that loves Thrall Horde and I am here to show our alliance counter parts that not all Horde players are like you.
Some of us actually try to have constructive conversations and try to be polite.
I will assume it is just your RP as a very rude Orc.

The Horde burned her people, that’s an act that puts the Horde in the same level as the legion.
I understand her.

Better that way.

Have a nice day.


(Zahir) #56

The Void Elves aren’t a problem anymore, not since the introduction. They are like high elves, only scientists who care about the shadow and not about the arcane like high elves.

To be honest, the Voidelves of their presentation and appearances are less questionable than Gilneer, death knights, or even night elves.


#57

Only in your mind. Don’t bother waiting for arguments, we had that discussion at other places, and I’m not about to repeat myself.


(Zahir) #58

Well, Fine :wink: I have no interest too, but don´t say every time “The void elves” are the problem of Aliance identify…they aren´t.


#59

I see them that way, so I will say it every time I talk about the problems I see within the Alliance. That shouldn’t come as a surprise.


(Zahir) #60

The light is not the base on the Alliance Identify, not anymore…since wc2. So your argument will break in a single Discussion with Sources…if you think thats the Problem.


#61

Really, learn to read. I refused to make the argument, thus I didn’t make one, I just assumed everyone I cared about knew what I was talking about. It seems you don’t.