I was thinking now, why would my character betray Sylvanas? Let’s look at his deeds:
He participated in War of Thorns, saw Sylvanas’ “BURN IT!!!1111” personally. After this he went to protect her city without any objections. I guess PC thinks that burning Teldrassil was okay (Like everyone else in the Horde except Saurfang).
He went to Stormwind for extraction mission. When he wanted to free Saurfang, Saurfang just showed him a middle finger and decided that sitting in alliance prison is more honourable.
He did Horde war campaign. Killed kul’tiran city guard captain, Amalia Stone, and then resurrected her. Went to the ocean floor for body of… Some Guy (Really important character for the plot). And when PC found Some Guy, he noticed another body nearby and took it too. No one asked PC to do it, he just did it, two bodies better than one. My guess, he wanted to use it for taxidermy. Turns out other body was Derek. We can see that PC doesn’t have any problems with resurrecting people and probably has weird… hobbies.
PC then was sent to find Saurfang and possibly save. When PC was searching for him, many proofs were found, that Alliance orchestrated Saurfang’s escape. Then suddenly appears some troll my character never met before. This troll says that Sylvanas send soldiers to assassinate saurfang, not capture or save. I think both choices here are kinda stupid, but i don’t see any reason for Saurfang choice here at all. My character goes to the Saurfang house, there are forsaken, they too know that Saurfang’s escape was orchestrated. They reasonably say “Surrender or we will kill you”. And PC doesn’t have any reason here to just start slaughtering of forsaken. I believe actually that my character would be kinda bitter after Stormwind, where he personally let Saurfang out, but Saurfang prefered prison. I believe “Do nothing and report to Sylvanas” is more reasonable choice here.
After this PC participiates in Darkshore questline. We resurrect army of night elves, who immediatly decided to fight for Horde. PC is ok with this.
Then we have Battle of Dazaralor and this absolutely pointless Jaina fight.
And now future choice, helping Baine. Sylvanas resurrected one guy.
This is unacceptable!!! She crossed the line! We should act now! No. That’s not what actually happens.
We resurrected probably hundreds of people at this point, no one cares, and PC doesn’t care surely. “Conditioning his mind” part i guess should be unacceptable line here? After all my PC have done, i don’t see anything SO BAD here. And this one guy is Jaina’s brother. Jaina humiliated Horde PC like week ago. So horde PC should be happy to get at least some kind of revenge here.
I just can’t imagine after fight with Jaina, PC would immediately agree to Baine like “Yeah, sure, let’s help Jaina, don’t see anything wrong here”. So i think for the story, Blizzard wrote, EBIL SYLVANAS CHOICES are only logical ones here.
Same reason why you betrayed Garrosh despite being his minion throughout all of Cataclysm and even playing a pivotal role in the Fall of Theramore. You Horde players need to realize that you are only given the illusion of a true choice with the Saurfang and Baine questlines. In the end, you will side with whoever Blizzard tells you to side with, be it Sylvanas, Baine, Saurfang, Anduin etc.
These are meta-reasons, i understand that choices don’t actually matter, and we will do whatever blizzard want us to do.
I am talking about in-story reasons. I look at my character and don’t see how he actually can choose GOOD and HONOURABLE choices here.
I look at your character and I wonder why he was still following Garrosh’s orders until patch 5.2 after he saw that conversation between Garrosh and Vol’jin at the beginning of Cataclysm.
Don’t try to reason with blizzard. It is pointless. We started with no motivation for anything and it is still going that way.
Game didn’t give any choices there at all, so question “Why can you choose to do this” is irrelevant here. Topic is not about Garrosh anyway, and though rebellion plot of MoP was not very good, it still made thousand more sense than BfA rebellion. At least there was an excuse “Do what he asks for now” from Vol’jin and Garrosh didn’t actually order us to do something super EBIL, that our character should feel bad about.
To be honest, the reason we grabbed that second body was because we saw Derek’s name on it’s dog tags.
We knew full well what would happen to it once Sylvanas got her hands on it.
You’re a murderhobo that works for that works for anybody that gives you bit of copper or piece of gear… and some times just for EXP.
Yeah the one where she even breaked the rules of herself and wanted to take his free will as forsaken.
I beg to argue that Teldrassil and the horde soldiers raising at Lordaeron was worse than raising Derek. Still Baine didn’t give a crap until the brother of his human BFF was affected. He has been Alliance at heart since day 1 and once again he proves it.
I agreed with everything you said until you brought Baine into it again xd. If he cared about the Alliance then he would be outraged about Teldrassil, instead he is more annoyed at Sylvanas leaving Saurfang than anything else.
What made Baine snap? A human who is the older brother of Jaina getting raised. That speaks everything about his character you need to know.
I am giving you a half-like for solely this.
However, ONLY raising Derek. It’s a worse crime that she didn’t grant him the free will she supposedly gave to all other Forsaken, and decided to torture him.
Well, it proves my point even more, even if you don’t like Sylvanas, your character surely is her fan.
Huh… what was wrong with what i said about Baine? The way Baine was portraited, he is just an opportunist who went for alliance sympathy the moment we start losing. But it doesn’t have anything to do with what i wrote.
I… i just checked what i wrote, i actually mentioned Baine twice and have no idea what you are talking about. Baine proposes to help Jaina by saving her brother from ebil Sylvanas… That’s what happens in game, i never said anything about “Caring about Alliance”.
Every resurrected human is forsaken now? I doubt it works like that.
I was responding to Erevien, sometimes it comes up as a direct response and other times it doesn’t.
Oh, yeah, my bad.
I’ve already commented about this problem in another thread. The problem basically boils down to the fact that Blizzard started the expansion with multiple events which should have created dissent amongst the Hordes leadership right away. But, because they missed the opportunity small and comparably insignificant events now have to serve as the spark for Anti-Sylvanas-sentiment.
The expansion started with a bang but now goes out with a whimper. Probably also because Blizzard underestimated the impact the Burning of Teldrassil and the Siege of Lordaeron would have on the community.
Exactly. How are you supposed to escalate, if destroying cities full of civilians is your starting point?
I would love to see Blizzard do another lore Q&A where they answer questions like this.
I mean an actual lore Q&A, not two guys jerking each other off at how great their cinematics and Christie Golden are.
It seems that Sylvanas intrpduced him as one of her kimd like it seems. At least Baine said that.