How are warriors supposed to compete in pvp?

I’ve never seen irony of this caliber before.
Your entire post was literally attacking me, because you claimed it was gramatically incorrect, when you clearly understood the message.

Who cares.
You got the message, so make an argument against that or say nothing. Nobody wants to read what you wrote.

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The reason was that you said something opposite the way you phrased the argument so there’s an incongruence between your conscious and your subconscious belief. Read your argument and then state several connected facts to yourself that you’re sure about, then reflect deeply on what exact words you used and then compare that to your certain warrior argument. It’s impossible for us to be both independent and need something brought by other classes when those other class can pretty much do everything to some degree independently.

It’s cognitive dissonance where you hold two opposite beliefs that are both true. Warriors can function independently and Warriors needs some things from other classes to support them. The later is an argument that goes against Warriors being independent since it clearly states that Warriors are dependent on others.

None of this is needed

This I can work with.
Allow me to rephrase it. Arms warriors are dependant on external heals, but it’s a spec that brings a ton of utility and dmg reduction on its own, which balances out in a rated environment.

Only a small amount of specs are as independant as you claim them to be. Assassa rogue, for an example, is a spec that brings everything in the book, but assassa rogue is a problem of its own.
But what do other specs bring that’s so unique compared to warriors? DK has no mortal strike and low utility, ret lacks sustained damage and is easily kited outside of HoF, and some specs like affliction, arcane, enhancement, MM and outlaw are straight up unplayable.

Go arms warrior and you trump a lot of specs in utility. Warbanner, Disarm, Intimidating Shout, Duel and Commanding Shout are all unique abilities compared to all viable specs atm. Not to mention most classes would kill to have a reflect.

If you get the message, there’s no reason for any of this. You can simply state that I made a contradiction, and it could mislead to XYZ, but you believe you understood what I meant and then we take it from there. Nobody needs your philosophy or psychology on this.

Now replace “need” with “want” and your statement is correct, No one want to be told what they believe actually means something else based on what they say as it goes against the narrative they live their life by and thus they interpret it as going against them personally.

There’s no intention in what you do or say. Your statement implied two opposing things, else the argument would have been “Warriors are mostly independent,” which is also wrong since Warriors are mostly fodder 1v1.

Need. Nobody needs it. It doesn’t help anyone and it doesn’t provide anything meaningful to the discussion at hand. It’s not needed. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though.

We’re past this, I’ve even rephrased it for you.
I’ve said already that the game is not balanced around 1v1, and it’s not going to be as long as arena exists.

You’re not really replying to any of my arguments though, so I’m just gonna leave it here unless you got an actual counterargument.

There’s a vast difference between want and need. No one want to be told their beliefs are seen differently by others as their narrative is basically they’re good people. No one sees themselves as a bad person. Anything that goes against their narrative makes them think that other people see them as bad. They do need to be told these things in order to be better at being like they are narratively.

“Please shut up, accept my narrative as I’ve told it!”

And I would agree with you that Arena creates some unbalances in the view of 1v1. However, WM is a thing now and was touted as the new thing and as an expansion feature that they want more people to engage in. Except they never will if they know they’ve lost by default to everyone and it feels like going uphill all the time.

And the reason I’ve little in the way of counterarguments is that I find it impossible to argue against your arguments as they’re all over the place and so ephemeral that no matter what I say you can say “but I also said …”

I’ve provided a counterargument to your arena argument as that’s the first solid thing you’ve said.

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This is your way of making counterarguments. You put words into my mouth :slight_smile:

If you don’t understand what I’m saying then ask. It’s that simple. So far I’m gonna assume you just don’t have any counterarguments, based on your lack of rated PvP experience.

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The only way you can say that is by not having played a caster in pvp. Jeez. The ammount of interupts, mobility and burst is just not fun anymore. Melee’s have been dominating pvp for Elune knows how long.

That’s what I have to do since your words and your beliefs are in opposition to each other.

How would I be able to counter your argument? Anything I say can be countered in the argument you made, that’s the reason I called it vague.

If I counter “you said Warriors were mostly independent, how?” “I said “mostly independent.” in my statement.”
If I counter “you said Warriors needs healing from others, how does that mesh with mostly independent?” “Warriors can handle their own without needing healing as I said in my argument.”

Stating that we’re mostly independent is like saying that someone is a little bit pregnant. It’s vague and impossible. Independence is an absolute statement, you either need someone or you can do everything alone. And there’s nothing wrong with stating that Warriors can do things on their own, which they can else PvE would be impossible, and they need healing for PvP.

Just be intellectually coherent.

No class is completely independent from other classes, that’s probably why he used the phrase ‘mostly independent’, you don’t have the best self heals, you can improve upon that if you farm two tank trinkets from underrot and eternal palace heroic from lady ashvane. You will have pretty strong self heals then. If you don’t like the idea of farming these, then don’t. Nobody is asking you to farm them.

All that I am implying is that arms warriors have really strong utility and damage along with really strong survivability on their own once they have these trinkets, and that survivability gets even better once you queue up into arena with a healer. Warriors are strong in bgs without any pocket healers as well if you know how to use the class.

Accept the spec for what it is, it’s in pretty good state all things considered, if you don’t like it, reroll fury since it’s the 1v1 spec if wpvp and 1v1 is thing of your interest. Classes are not balanced around 1v1, but around arenas, be happy that you have this one spec that excels at duels (fury). Arms is really good at duels as well, but you have to have decent knowledge of the game mechanics first and know your matchups. With that said, having tank trinkets certainly helps but does not make you win since you still need to know your matchups.

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The first mistake here is to assume 1v1 and world pvp is in any way shape or form balanced or are supposed to be balanced

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Wait…did you really just say Arms is rlly good at duels?

yes…

Let me correct you then
They are insanely horrible

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Not necessarily, you need to have PvE tank trinkets and Cut of Death to make them work in duels, but once you have these, you can win a lot of matchups as a warrior if you know how to play proactively to what the enemy does. Matchups you should almost always lose are survival hunter, windwalker monk and arcane mage. Other matchups are all very winnable if you know your matchup.

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Uh alright then
Actually forgot tank trinkets were even a thing in BFA S3

Behold, it can be done. And when a warrior is managed by some 1 skilled… its like watching 300 vs persians

Fury is totally different story in 1v1 compared to arms

Fury is all about self healing this expansion.

That’s a short sentence, but boy does it capture that whole spec accurately. There’s nothing else to add or subtract - having returned to my warrior only a month ago or so, I can attest to this being the summation of fury.

What about protection and arms, though? Is there as simple a way to summarize them as with fury?