How do you feel about tweaking WC3 story?


(Zarao) #1
Apparently thats the aim Christie Golden and Justin Groot have in mind at the moment.

Will it be for the better or the worse?

(Telriem) #2
If it makes it so the lore in game makes more sense then I suppose so, even if they are what would be considered bad alters/changes :/

I’d sacrifice anything for a slight bit more story consistency at this stage hopefully these alterations can make that happen.

(Theronarum) #3
Normally, I wouldn't mind.

But for Blizzard, I make an exception. A lot of people will play WCIII Remastered for nostalgic reasons, and seeing how stuff is cut from the game wouldn't make them any happier. I know that Groot and Golden said that they'll mostly be cutting dialogue that is outdated, in a way that jokes that used to be funny are not anymore, but even tampering with them will disturb the authenticity of the dialogues.

What I fear as well is that they'll use the game to finalise the latest retcons. Someone else already talked about how WCIII had a Mission set in Suramar, which was supposed to be in ruins, later retconned to be undamaged - and no doubt Blizzard will grasp the opportunity to rewrite that kind of stuff.

It's great what they're doing, and I'm looking forward to play it, but I don't trust the writing team with a classic such as Warcraft III, since they already said that they're going to re-evaluate things anyway.

EDIT

Also, for reference: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288520/warcraft-iii-details-from-game-informer-concept-art-story-interview-with-christi

I just don't think it bodes well. I'd rather have some outdated jokes than a writing team touching the already established lore.

(Telriem) #4
08/11/2018 20:27Posted by Theronarum
Normally, I wouldn't mind.

But for Blizzard, I make an exception. A lot of people will play WCIII Remastered for nostalgic reasons, and seeing how stuff is cut from the game wouldn't make them any happier. I know that Groot and Golden said that they'll mostly be cutting dialogue that is outdated, in a way that jokes that used to be funny are not anymore, but even tampering with them will disturb the authenticity of the dialogues.

What I fear as well is that they'll use the game to finalise the latest retcons. Someone else already talked about how WCIII had a Mission set in Suramar, which was supposed to be in ruins, later retconned to be undamaged - and no doubt Blizzard will grasp the opportunity to rewrite that kind of stuff.

It's great what they're doing, and I'm looking forward to play it, but I don't trust the writing team with a classic such as Warcraft III, since they already said that they're going to re-evaluate things anyway.

EDIT

Also, for reference: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288520/warcraft-iii-details-from-game-informer-concept-art-story-interview-with-christi

I just don't think it bodes well. I'd rather have some outdated jokes than a writing team touching the already established lore.


See this is exactly why I was conflicted at first and it does suck but :/ idk but I obviously came to the conclusion that I did above^^

(Weemon) #5
Im an old skool warcraft fan (since getting my grubby lil claws on Orcs vs Humans as a just a wee mon) and im terrified at the thought. Leave my lore alone damnit!

(Zarao) #6
08/11/2018 20:27Posted by Theronarum
Also, for reference: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288520/warcraft-iii-details-from-game-informer-concept-art-story-interview-with-christi


Yes, i was talking about that one.

Also this one:
https://www.polygon.com/blizzcon/2018/11/2/18057924/warcraft-3-reforged-classic-compatibility-blizzcon
Writer Christie Golden, who has worked with Blizzard on multiple novels set in the Warcraft universe over the past two decades, is helping to bring “parity” to the stories of Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, which will require retconning some of the strategy game’s story. Those changes will bring “renewed focus to a few central characters that we thought deserved a little bit more time in the limelight,” Stillwell said.

“There’s been 16 years of evolution of this franchise outside of this game,” Stillwell explained. “Some of that, especially central characters like Jaina and Sylvanas, these people who mean so much more to the world now who didn’t get as much focus [in the original Warcraft 3] because we just didn’t know where they were going to be.”

(Theronarum) #7
08/11/2018 20:46Posted by Zarao
Also this one:
https://www.polygon.com/blizzcon/2018/11/2/18057924/warcraft-3-reforged-classic-compatibility-blizzcon

That one is even more worrisome.

I GET the reason why the writing team wants to change the game in certain ways, but there's just something wrong with retconning it. A writer should not see himself as someone who CREATES the story, but as someone who TELLS it. It's as if the story already existed, and it was so good and so interesting that you want to tell it, or make a game about it. Changing something that was carefully written just because stuff has changed doesn't justify tampering with old storylines. Those are set. You can't change it. Even if you think "well, it'd be better if it was like that", the story is told and that is that.

Warcraft III is a masterpiece. The story was written in such a brilliant way, and truly, it is the pinnacle of Warcraft lore. From what I've seen, the writing team is not competent enough to make changes in it. They just don't have the skill, or the magic to make it into something so special, like Metzen had. Leave it alone, and face the consequences of your retcons.

(Louschey) #8
imo changing wc3 story is the worst they could do

(Zarao) #9
08/11/2018 21:06Posted by Theronarum
That one is even more worrisome.


Right?

Given Golden's past narrative, she could remove every likeable trait Sylvanas had back in her initial portrayal, or make some retcon that pins Jaina or Thrall as even more instrumental in the WC3 campaign against Archimonde just so that she could "explain" why the Night elves aren't the same independent force they were back in the day.

WC3 set the bar so high, that i can't really imagine any tweak that wouldn't make it worse. Specially when coming from someone like Golden.

(Telriem) #10
08/11/2018 21:56Posted by Zarao
08/11/2018 21:06Posted by Theronarum
That one is even more worrisome.


Right?

Given Golden's past narrative, she could remove every likeable trait Sylvanas had back in her initial portrayal, or make some retcon that pins Jaina or Thrall as even more instrumental in the WC3 campaign against Archimonde just so that she could "explain" why the Night elves aren't the same independent force they were back in the day.

WC3 set the bar so high, that i can't really imagine any tweak that wouldn't make it worse. Specially when coming from someone like Golden.


When put like that it sounds horrible ughhh >.< but I guess we will have to wait and see...

(Elenthas) #11
@requestken @gameinformer I think people are fearing the game won't be recognizable, and that's very much not the case! We're talking a few sentences here and there, not new scenes, etc.

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/status/1060336137019912193

Stop blowing it out of proportion.

(Zarao) #12
08/11/2018 22:11Posted by Elenthas
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/status/1060336137019912193

Stop blowing it out of proportion.


"Tyrande and Malfurion looked at each other....they both knew that without Thrall or Jaina they wouldn't last a day. They both held stronger forces than them".

"Sylvanas pondered about assasinating Anasterian and staging a coup to become Silvermoons ruler, but the Scourge invasion halted her plans, and she was forced to rush in defense of what was hers".

Two sentences. Quantify their damage.

A single hint, clue, or innuendo can turn the most basic, compelling or truthful reaction into a noxious pit that ruins the character. They just need to find appealing the intention to "adjust" the character to fit its current portrayal (be that Cartoon Villain Sylvanas, or Alliance Dependant Night Elves). Just to name two examples.

(Theronarum) #13
08/11/2018 22:23Posted by Zarao
08/11/2018 22:11Posted by Elenthas
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/status/1060336137019912193

Stop blowing it out of proportion.


"Tyrande and Malfurion looked at each other....they both knew that without Thrall or Jaina they wouldn't last a day. They both held stronger forces than them".

"Sylvanas pondered about assasinating Anasterian and staging a coup to become Silvermoons ruler, but the Scourge invasion halted her plans, and she was forced to rush in defense of what was hers".

Two sentences. Quantify their damage.

A single hint, clue, or innuendo can turn the most basic, compelling or truthful reaction into a noxious pit that ruins the character. They just need to find appealing the intention to "adjust" the character to fit its current portrayal (be that Cartoon Villain Sylvanas, or Alliance Dependant Night Elves). Just to name two examples.

Certainly, agreed.

I am sure that they will keep the change minimal, but the Polygon article makes it pretty clear that they're looking to actively change the things that happened in WCIII so it reflects the retcons.

Nevertheless, my guess is that they'll use the voice records from the original WCIII so that limits them a bit.

(Sheselyn) #14
Golden touching WC3 is not going to do any good, I firmly believe.

She can only write humans and that makes me worry as many characters and nations in WC3 were "out of her comfortable zone".

I am afraid it ends up with purple and green painted humans instead of nelves and orcs.

(Thalasdin) #15
08/11/2018 22:57Posted by Sheselyn
I am afraid it ends up with purple and green painted humans instead of nelves and orcs.


You mean Blue Orcs?

The Flowerpicker Clan deserves all our respect. They were blue, when everyone else was red.

(Telriem) #16
08/11/2018 23:03Posted by Thalasdin
08/11/2018 22:57Posted by Sheselyn
I am afraid it ends up with purple and green painted humans instead of nelves and orcs.


You mean Blue Orcs?

The Flowerpicker Clan deserves all our respect. They were blue, when everyone else was red.


New allied race confirmed

(Thalasdin) #17
08/11/2018 23:04Posted by Telriem

New allied race confirmed


I damn hope so.

The fact they were removed from WoD upsets me greatly.

(Elyssarain) #18
08/11/2018 22:23Posted by Zarao
"Tyrande and Malfurion looked at each other....they both knew that without Thrall or Jaina they wouldn't last a day. They both held stronger forces than them"."Sylvanas pondered about assasinating Anasterian and staging a coup to become Silvermoons ruler, but the Scourge invasion halted her plans, and she was forced to rush in defense of what was hers".
Where are you getting these quotes from?

(Zarao) #19
08/11/2018 23:24Posted by Elyssarain
Where are you getting these quotes from?


I invented them. Just an example of stuff they could come up with to try and fit the current portrayal of several characters/races to, and i'm quoting them:

helping to bring “parity” to the stories of Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, which will require retconning some of the strategy game’s story.


Such as, having for example Sylvanas character with more evil traits to have players relate more with her current portrayal, or nerf the Night elf race to explain why to this day are they this dependant regarding the Alliance or how their enemies beat them around when they started as a third faction.

This is stuff they could pull if they wanted.

(Aldith) #20
I don't mind it because original WC3 still exists and honestly for new players it's better to have lore aligned with the Chronicles rather than by the old lore.