How to make the Council of the Horde distinct

Just here to share some thoughts on the idea of the Horde being ruled by a council rather than a Warchief. To start, I am not entirely against the idea, especially since it is the case of Blizzard basically canonising a fan concept, which is always awesome. However, there are fears, not necessarily unfounded, that this will make the Horde identical to the Alliance.

People say that centralisation is what leads to the Horde becoming tyrannical, but in fact it is what keeps the smaller tyrants, like Lor’themar or Sylvanas pre-BfA, in check. To just relegate all power to local rulers will only lead to more problems with the Horde’s less likeable races like the Forsaken: these have to be kept in check. Still, with how much power is given to the Warchief, I think it’s reasonable to have their own power be somehow limited as well.

The way Blizzard should do this, I think, is to present the Horde Council as a collegial but centralised body, that together holds the same power as the Warchief once had. By this I mean that, while new Horde laws would require the consent of the council, once passed, noone should be able to get around them.

To convey this concept in-game, all of the Horde’s races should have their leaders moved to Orgrimmar, or at the very least, send representatives. For example, Thrall, Rokhan, Gazlowe, Ji and Voss would stay in Grommash Hold permanently, while Baine and Lor’themar would send Hamuul and Aethas respectively. Grommash Hold itself could be rebuilt into a parliament-like structure.

Also, to show that the Horde is not just its constituent races, councillors would be more than just racial representatives. There will be a representative for the shamans of the Horde, its druids and its arcanists, priests of various faiths and veteran warriors like Eitrigg. This will show that the Horde is more than the sum of its parts.

Also, the Horde Council needs some name. The War Council? The Gathering? Perhaps some play on the Kurultai?

The council shouldn’t steal Orc locations and cities in order to force down it concept.
Rather Blizzard had a neutral location for whenever they need to reunite, and leave orcs to develop their own culture for once.

Also, I wouldn’t want racial leader to be shown as permanent guests in some foreign city. That kills racial identity and turns races into some sort of hive mind.

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I think that’s what the Horde is about. Unity. Let the Alliance’s races remain distinct, we’re all in this together. Asking for a new capital is a tad too much, though it’d be really cool. It should be a port city too, and a lot more defensible.

You are very naive if you really believe Blizzard intended to go somewhere with this. The Horde is dead narrative wise. That was the entire point of BfA. Now Blizzard can fully embrace the human potential Club party without those annoying savages to slow down the plot. hooray!

Let me dream, please.

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Settling in Durotar was a mistake from the start. Someone needs to confront Thrall about it.

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We should probably just “copy” the political structure of the ancient Romans, being a warrior culture (at least in the beginning of their history) like the Horde pretty much is…

like Baine said a “Warchief” doesn’t really make sense in times of peace, so a Council of different races working like a senate is ok, but the Warchief position should actually return and having full powers in times of open war with the Alliance, maybe not just one person but two just to be sure one doesn’t go crazy with power again, like the two ancient Roman commanders assuming full powers in time of need

and knowing Blizzard I already know the name will be “the Savage Council” :stuck_out_tongue:

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To be honest, I expect the Horde leaders to all get dumped in a building and elect a “speaker”, i.e. Baine, who will be written as if he was the warchief with the occasional token disagreement overruled by majority within the council.

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Of course it will be Baine. Him standing in Stormwind next to Anduin next patch is all you need to know. He is the ultimate Anduin boot licker no matter how hard he and Golden tries to deny it.

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I would say the Council is a mistake and it feels wrong.

But then again, I like the fact Zul’jin was at the same height as Doomhammer was. So… there is that.

A council can work, but it’s so different that I have to wait and see how this goes. But why Bain in there they can’t really so anything.

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The trick is not giving veto rights to the council members. Baine may call for surrender and pansy crap like that, but the majority of the council will outvote him.

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No they will not. There is a good reason why Blizzard replaced so many Horde leader positions with goody good guys. So they all would always agree on what the Alliance/Anduin and co. want from him.

I forsee him getting the Baina Proudhoof treatment. Something will happen that jeopardizes the armistice and Baine will be the one trying to calm down the horde as a mediator and his loyalty of the horde will get frequently questioned once tensions rise again. The most obvious test will be how far Tyrande is willing to go for vengeance and who she is prepared to walk over to get what she wants.

If her crusade leads her against horde soldiers - and Baine still tries to support the armistice - they’ll say he’s either an alliance sympathiser or that he cares more about his own grudge against Sylvanas than the lives of the horde; in spite of what we risked to rescue him. I don’t see too much conflict arising on this front for quite a while though, especially as Tyrande is confirmed to be involved in the Shadowlands; presumably far enough removed from any horde activities to jeopardize the peace.

As for the council, I’m fine with this depending on how things are structured. It would feel weird to the point of insulting for the leader of the Vulpera to hold an equal seat to Baine or Lorthemar etc so the older races should at least have some amount of seniority. Mostly im happy that we won’t have a single warchief anymore.

My biggest issue with recent horde storylines - though this is not a new horde phenomena at all - is that we’re constantly following someone because HONOUR who is either being manipulated, or manipulating us, and we fail to realise the horror we have wrought until it is too late. Oh woe is us, how can we ever repent? etc etc

  • we continued to do whatever Garrosh wanted despite him completely ravaging Pandaria and blowing up a city because he was the warchief and because HONOUR;
  • Vol’jin named Sylvanas warchief (but was being manipulated into doing so) and we went along with it because he was the warchief and HONOUR;
  • Sylvanas commits numerous warcrimes and crosses previously indicated red lines from other horde leaders (raising the tauren etc as forsaken during battle for undercity) and we go along with it for a whole expansion because shes the warchief and honour;

The story always seems to go that we stick together and don’t question the warchief because honour and that leaves us open to be used as pawns. The faction conflict has been my least favorite part of BFA because the narrative is once again the horde being like “oh sorry we didnt know what we were doing until it was too late, our bad everyone!”

If the lack of a single leader calling the shots prevents this in the future then i’m fine with the autocracy coming to an end. Ignorance is not bliss.

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