How would a war against the horde and alliance go realistically?

I have Horde alt, though need to do the War Campaign on her. Does Oculeth mention working around the defenses of the… I believe it is Tidesage Monastery, yes?

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Yes, you’re right.

Only Locus Walker who is essentially a Void Master was able to perform this kind of teleportation, and maybe even Alleria.

Umbric had to cooperate with Jaina to breach into Dazaralor.

Not to mention the very many risks the void ritual you mention poses to the caster.

So yeah I dont think Orgrimmar has alot to fear from your average void elf. We’re good.

A fearsome technique when performed at its highest indeed, but there’s like one or two people who could pull it off and they’d still need like Jaina or somebody to work with them

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Wrong, you’re running into Rangers in the Zuldazar war campaign in Zuldazar. You can open their portals, and then they come out, they step out of this dimension, so you are mistaken here, many Ren’dorei can do that.

They told you, they watching you :wink:

They need not, look at UC :wink: And Jaina is not needet, Jaina needs Umbric to hide her spell, but umbric is able to summon himself arround the place…he made it arround the warcampaign many times.

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I quickly skimmed through the thread and from what I gather:

  1. Alliance have a relatively small but ELITE task force with 1000 years worth of combat experience to fight against some ruffians that have been thrashing around for a couple of decades.
  2. The Alliance outnumbers the Horde.
  3. The Alliance are technically more advanced/possess more races with advanced weaponry than the Horde.
  4. No internal conflict in the Alliance.
  5. Oh… and they have a freaking SPACESHIP.

Yeah, who’s the clear winner here, I wonder?

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Actually we have two spaceships, since Lothraxion and the Aurobos are servants of Turalyon, they too serve the Alliance and must answer if called upon in the war.

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And also in general alliance is better with magic.

Although there are good horde casters, but alliance is better in general.

Blood Elves, Nightborne, Forsaken. At least 3 good caster races with high key experience. I call the outcome even.

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Forsaken are effectively on the same level as humans in terms of how and who they were taught by (High Elves/Blood Elves), as well as the amount of experiance both races would have in their short lifespans and the knowledge that was lost with the destruction of Dalaran.
The Nightborne are of course excellent casters specialising in temporal and portal magic as well having good mastery of construct creation and ley line mastery. But they have not really built on their knowledge since they had no need to,nothing threatened them and they were all powerfull within their domain until the Legion returned. Much like the Highborne when they ventured out during Cata, they could be outclassed by younger races.
The BE’s are of course THE magical race within the Horde and the biggest threat to Alliance casters, they have built on their experiance and knowledge since the destruction of Silvermoon by Arthas,every xpac they have added more magical power to their arsenal from Mana Bombs in BC to Blood Golems in WoD. The only thing that limits the BE’s is their low numbers, a problem i guess all the long lived magical powerhouse races share now (Draenei,LF Draenei, NE’s, Highborne, BE’s, HE’s, Rendorie) I don’t include the Nightborne in the list because even with everything that happened in Legion they should still have significant numbers, maybe the most populous race in the Horde after the Forsaken.

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Why? They lived in a single city (actually just a fraction of the original Suramar), and since they couldn’t actually build new houses due to the bubble, in the last 10.000 years they most likely had to keep their population growth quite low. Furthermore, many of them were driven mad due to the addiction to the Nightwell, and a huge amount of their military was wiped out along with Elisande and most of their command structure. In addition, several civilians were sacrificed as fuel for the Legion’s war machines.

I mean, are we suddenly going to ignore all the Nightborne mobs we had to kill in the first year of Legion?

Nightborne cloning machine. Might as well call it at this point tbh. The city should be what…half-empty with the casualties they took? Entire district(s) wiped out by the Legion and later fighting. But alas WoW does not handle logistics.

Oh right, I forgot that pretty much one of the most bustling residential districts in Suramar was wiped out by Elisande.

Also the original Suramar was much larger, going as far as the Broken Shore, so really modern day Suramar is just a fraction of the original metropolis.

Hard to tell, because even if population-wise, the Alliance might beat the Horde numerically speaking, the Horde races are simply more predisposed for conflict and war (mentally and physically speaking).

I’d say things would be rather even.

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Humans, draenei, gnomes, void elves, lightforged draenei, night elves although they mostly don;t use it, night elves, if they wanted could make for excellent mages, basically the highborne, worgens, same with kul tirans, especially considering jaina is from there, i mean come on.

Sorry, alliance would win, they not only have the numbers, but also generally better technology and generally stronger races, if the draenei were more numerous this wouldn’t even be a question, after some thought, i just have to give the edge to alliance.

I understand the reason why blizzard doesn’t pick a winner, but looking at it, the alliance would win, everything the horde has, the alliance has better, even void elves they are high elves like the blood elves, but better, stronger, they are just as good with magic, but they are also void empowered.

And the draenei singularly are just freaking insane, they not only are amazingly strong phisically, but they are also the best magicians in the universe, and have incredibly long lifespans, they are pretty much op, and don’t get me started on the lightforged, they have all the draenei have, but they are also empowered by the light, making them even stronger.

I thought about this but i just can’t see the horde winning, they just are not as good, the horde are strong, orcs, trolls, blood elves, nightborne etc, they are all strong, but the alliance is just better.

Humans make for extremely fast growers, they can become really powerful sorcerers, it’s a possibility that if they had longer lifespans they would be the most powerful mages in general, there is one thing though, shouldn’t your lifespan increase if you know magic, i mean, you could use magic to rejuvenate your body i would guess, making a human mage live much longer than your average i would guess, idk, that seems to be the most logical thing.

During the First and Second War all of the above served them for little. The Horde still came close to beating them, and only failed because they ended up splitting (a rather recurring theme must say…).
Not my words by the way, but the ones of the Alliance High Command itself.

All things considered, doubt things are as onesided as you think they’d be.

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Count all the time he says “But the alliance is better at everything.”. Don’t take him too serious. Trying to sell subjective feelings as objective facts is nothing new around here.

From what i remember the kingdom of stormwind was enough to drive the horde back where they came from, and they were fel empowered, so don;t give me this they didn’t have any help, while the alliance was united, the burning legion gave them power, which s quite something.

The alliance would win, end of story.

And i mean, yea, if you are always divided than maybe there are some problems that the horde should solve before going to war, as a matter of fact they lost quite a few times.

The fact alone that alliance is better at magic on average already gives it a significant advantage.

Not saying that it would be completely one sided, but the alliance would win in the end.

From what i remember, the Kingdom of Stormwind managed to repel two bickering Clans riddled with infighting and got defeated the second Orgrim took the reins of the Horde and directed it as an actual functional faction.

Regarding ‘fel empowerment’, i doubt we are to factor it as any kind of decisive factor as most of the narrative pieces that describe that time, seldom reference it as any kind of perk. It had already started wearing off, to the point it no longer offered the kind of frenzied boost it had directly after consumption.
It had been several years since they had last came in contact with it.
Not once it is referenced as some advantage in those wars. Not in Chronicles, and certainly not in Tides of Darkness.

And where did i say anything about how much help they had? I’m pointing out the obvious: The reason the Alliance defeated them, was because of Gul’dan causing infighting. They were losing prior.

I though the thread question was

Which means no sudden plot twists that save the good guys at the end of the day. Which again, includes sudden twists that cripple the faction at random.

Yeah, if you wan’t to analyse the faction as is, then the Horde faction, as a functioning entity, has been shown as capable of defeating the Alliance.

In an ingame universe that has the Nightborne and the Blood elves working for the Horde…i seriously doubt this one.


All things considered, i think the odds are rather even. Numerical advantage serves for little if the one you are facing is able to withstand armoured cavalry units with 2 metre tall footmen wearing only loincloths.

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All the information should be on the history of the horde wiki page, i could read it later to see if i am correct, because it;s been quite some time and i’m going off fro memory, noobel should also have a video most probably.

You are giving too much credit to the be and nightborne, they are good indeed with magic, probably on par with the other races i mentioned before, but the fact is that the alliance just has more, aside from draenei, draenei are just insane.

The orcs are stronger physically compared to the humans, but not as much as you probably think, and there are quite a few alliance races that are extremely powerful when it comes to physical strength.

doron also made a few video about how strong each individual race is, just to gauge them and have some few useful information about each of them.

And also, remember that things have changed quite a bit since warcraft, so we also have to look at how things were in the past, but also how they are now.

lets not forgot the humans will lead the numbers by far. stormwind and its kingdom are the largest and most populated in azeroth. and if dalaran will have to choose side, they will clearly choose the alliance.