How would people feel about the return of armor pen?

PVP Arenas
1

Not as a stat but as an ability.
Since a major problem for the physical damage classes atm, besides WW monk, is that they can’t put out as much pressure as the ones with schools of magic or armor ignoration.
A good example is the newly buffed BM hunter, which made Barbed Shot do more damage and penetrate all armor, and is now a viable spec.
Other specs, mainly arms, subtlety, fury, outlaw and marksmanship, could use a situational armor pen to deal with heavy armor comps.

It could be a simple PvP talent.
Colossus Smash/Warbreaker no longer increases your damage dealt, but will cause all of your attacks to bypass 70% armor on affected targets

Pick this if you’re going into comps like lock/DK, TSG, WLD or whatever.
Feel like it could be a step in the right direction.

2

Sounds interesting actually.

And if such thing came back i might as well pick something else then Demon Armor. :rofl:

3

There are many things that should come back from past expansions

4 Likes
4

Having 1 thing back is better than 0 :slight_smile:

1 Like
5

Actually a pretty good idea, would appreciate it aswell when they take Resilence back.

6

Having one thing back that affects only melees? Why is that good for the rest of the playerbase
Bring back spell penetration also in that case

7

Eeexcept that bypassed spell resistances of the target. xD What would it do now, just increase dmg done whenever a caster pops it? Same effect in the end, with lower depth though since there’s no difference in resistances anymore, so the dmg increase would be the same on every target instead of armor pen which would have a different effect depending on the amount of armor the target has got.

I’ve never been a fan of armor pen though, nor spell pen. It was only ever used as a psuedo-dmg increase which was heavily punished when you didn’t gear towards it if you ever met something with a lot of armor.

8

I mean we could argue the same about any ability/mechanic in the game, like Demon Armor and Necrotic Strike. What good do those bring for the rest of the playerbase?
This suggestion is aimed at making physical dmg classes compete with everyone else when it comes to dealing with high armor targets.

9

The effect is the same vs. low armor targets though, which is why everyone’s armor was designed to be higher when they introduced armor pen and stuff. I’d rather they bring back at least sunder armor, since warrs kiiiind of needs to bring more utility.
Because if only 1 class can bring down the armor of the target, it opens up room for more comps again, and would bring back a place for warriors that nothing else can copy.
(Rogues would whine about expose armor though.)

10

% will always have more value against higher numbers. The idea is that you give up whatever damage increase you had, in this case the 30% from Colossus Smash, and give it % armor pen instead.
You now have a choice. Is it worth it if you pick the increased armor pen, to do more damage to enemies with high armor, and do less to low armored targets.
If you’re up against lock, mage and Rdruid you could pick this to have more dmg for the lock, but if you swap onto mage/Rdruid at some point you’ll have less damage against them.

11

Except it won’t. You’re confusing the results for the numerical value shaven off. The results will still be that targets with higher armor will have more than the ones with lower, when you compare the value left after both would have reduced armor.

The effect is the same, and there’s no point in making it available to all “physical damage dealers (except ww monks)” as you put it.

Honestly, it seems like you’re just underestimating the damage mitigation of armor on clothies, and what reducing it by a flat percentage with such an ability would have.
So what you’d need to accomplish your goal of “making a choice” depending on the type of target, would mean that it basically needs a reduced percentage vs. the “low” armor types.

But the gameplay will never be “better” with more damage. It needs more depth. And sunder armor brought back for something as shallow and homogenized as warriors is a slightly better step than just increasing dmg for all “physical damage dealers (except ww monks)”.

(Also, armor pen won’t really fix the problems those other physical dmg dealers deal with. They just need more damage overall that’s closer to the average now. Well, not sure about sub and outlaw, but the rest does. Rogues are just a little whiny about playing stun bots when it’s just broken beyond belief when the amount of cc they have should actually be relative to the amount of dmg they can output. Ferals also need a little more dmg in the bleeds.)

12

Old stat systems were unnescessarily overcomplicated. I wouldn’t want them back.

1 Like
13

With all your good idead guys , you would probably be 100% better than the actually pvp team dev .

And pvp would be so much fun than right now

14

https://www.wowhead.com/primary-secondary-stats-and-attributes-from-world-of-warcraft here’s a list of all the removed secondary stats if you scroll down just a bit. I’d personally love to see a lot of them back. (Not so much the penetration crap though, which only became a thing because the armor/resistance values started stacking too high because they didn’t keep the static max increase with the increase of levels compared to expansions prior. And then the penetration crap made 'em stack the armor/resistance values even higher, and it just created an evil loop of secondary stats.)

15

bring symbiosis back

16

worst. ability. ever. in the game. Lots of fun with the advantage it gave of course, but the consequences were far, far worse on the state of the game overall.

17

C’mon dude.
30% damage increase is by far better than 70% armor pen on cloth users. 70% armor pen is much more efficient than 30% damage increase against high armor. It’s a package deal.
Of course reducing a target with 4500 armor and one with 1500 would still leave the first one with more armor, but you’ll have gained much more value from using it on someone with high armor (4500 to 1350 and 1500 to 450).
You’ll take less damage this way as a clothie, than if I were to flat increase my damage by 30%. I can’t really underestimate damage mitigation of armor on clothies, as it’s a flat number.
That’s where the choice comes in.

You’re right though, giving an armor pen to all the specs above doesn’t fix them, but it’s an idea that could potentially help them.
The reason why I said WW doesn’t need it, is because WW already has it. Tigereye Brew causes your attacks to do wind damage, bypassing all armor, but also reduce the damage your attacks do.

Putting in Sunder Armor would be great… for warriors.

18

I feel like not worth even going to hit Hpalas or anything with high armor as WW so what are you smoking there?

19

Yeah I know it reduced the resestance and that resistance couldn’t be brought under 0, there was going on something i can’t recall it that at a time you could get hit twice or something like this. And no I’m not confusing it with multistrike.
But I might be wrong.

20

Not entirely sure what you said.
I left out WW’s because you already have the ability to ignore armor with Tigereye Brew.
Whether that talent is worth taking currently Idk, but it’s the design and purpose of abilities like that I’ve aimed for here.