I know lets make things "fun" by slapping a rep grind on it


You can almost certainly hear those words in every Blizzard WoW meeting at some point.

I don’t understand why everything in WoW these days can only be achieved by some form or rep grind. You want to fly -> rep grind. You want an allied race -> rep grind. You want a mount -> rep grind + a ton of gold. In the older zones as soon as you reached a certain level you could buy flying or you just got it. In WoD it started with Pathfinder. The Pathfinder part where you had to do the story-line quests on your ground mount so you at least had to visit each zone was quite nice, but then came the rep grind again. The in Legion 1 Pathfinder was not enough they brought out 2 with each it’s own rep grind. Once again the story-line quests for both path finders was nice, but the rep grind is just a grind and a grind = “no fun for you”.

All the grinding is making things hard for people with limited time to play WoW so Blizzard you are loosing a part of your audience by consuming the limited time they have with some form of rep grind. Farming materials for professions is already a grind so we don’t need more grinds to take up the little time we have. If all I have to look forward to when I log in at night to play a few hours is some form grind. Eventually I am going to stop playing. People play games to have fun, the grinds should be something to unlock legendary items like legendary gear items, mount skins or transmog skins for dedicated players with loads of time to play. The basics must be less grindy to get. And by basics I mean flying, playable allied races, basic mounts and transmog skins. Then if you want to the epic skins upgrades for the basic mounts, transmog items or get some legendary items then you have to grind some rep. I don’t mind doing the unlocking quest-line or unlocking scenario for the allied races. Those are fine and adds to the story of the allied race and their alliance with it’s respective faction, but the rep grind requirement I find soul-wrenching.

Less grinding = “more fun for you”
More grinding = “no fun for you”

(Minria) #2

It’s not about fun. It’s all about engagement and retention.

Retention is the negative form of engagement. A retention-focused game creates an idle experience for a bored audience. It presents an ordinary, non-innovative game that the player can easily understand and then finds a way to reliably contact the player and nudge or cajole them to return at regular intervals.

Retention-focused games are more easily describable with template game designs because the game itself is largely just a part of a process of communication and obligation. The player returns, gets to play a little game before being made to stop, and then is obliged to leave or spend money.

Retention does not foster a relationship. The player puts up with the developer’s nagging and demands for money, and the transaction is ultimately mean spirited. The opposite of retention is enchantment.


Sadly WoW has come to this.


if you play the game 30 minutes a day, you’d have pathfinder months ago.

it literally requires you to play the game, and even if u dont focus to get pathfinder you still get it.

only issue is pathfinder in older expansions


It’s not like it has been that since uh I dunno… forever. Even since Vanilla.


Exactly what mr Buka said.
Im beyond casual the last 2 expansions and i easily got each expansion’s pathfinder at a point.

If you cant even spend 2 hours a day , feel free to unsub and play Kitten Adventures or anything similar to that.

In the end its an MMO .
MMO games, require time and grind at some point.

PS. Im trying to recall any mount / transmog / achievement which required nearly no grind at all.

Oh wait that ugly af Alliance bike from the WoD event which costs 100k.
There you go


cant wait till classic launches and people whine that they have to grind level 20 to buy a mount :joy:

(Teknetia) #9

It’s a subscription based MMO. Rep grinds are an easy way to make people play the game longer hence money.


40, not 20. and 40 is only 60% speed. Not to mention it costs a ton.


Can’t wait for the influx of people a week after launch screaming classic takes too much effort

(Yinghei) #12

oh god…the long and painful grind at level 40 to finally afford your first mount! Then the further ‘enjoyable’ grind at 60 for that lovely winterspring sabercat.

I dont mind the grinding at all. I dont PVP or do raids at high level so having a few goals in mind gives me a sense of progression in my PVE play. In fact Im happy to just kick back and grind at a snails pace (took me forever to get the rat mount in Legion coz I literally killed a few rares every few weeks when I could remember rather then PVPing it!!).


Rep grinds in BFA aren’t there to make the game fun, but to reward playing the game.

I don’t see why it’s an issue, if you don’t try to get these rewards why should you recieve them ?

Nothing hard there, 1 emissary 2 assault and more than 40 WQ per week. If you don’t enjoy it then do it slowly and you’re good to go.

You still have at least a month before 8.2, do your emissaries and it’ll be fine.

If i have any issue with the reps it would be that there only mandatory rep, and no additional ones you would farm if you want to and which would unlock some kind of rewards.


This. They’re not even difficult grinds compared to others

(Samkelly) #15

Skyguard in BC. The Wintersaber Trainer in classic. Faction mounts in classic. Red Drake in WOTLK… mounts have always been locked behind a rep grind. This is an MMO with a gameplay loop. It’s not like Halo’s campaign where you play though once-a few times and leave it for years. It needs to keep you involved so you keep buying subs making grinds essential.

I can agree the current content isn’t thrilling but then most MMOs and video games have grind elements that aren’t. From herb farming in the Witcher to Feathers in AC games have elements that are time wasters with a decent-to not so decent reward at the end of it.

In Witcher, if you want to avoid the grind you put the difficulty down so you don’t need pots.

In AC, if you don’t want the achievement you just don’t collect feathers.

In WoW if you don’t want to grind, just don’t go for the things behind grinds. BFA is laden with flight paths. If all you do is Mythic’s and Raids you really, really don’t need flying as it mostly only helps with World Quests (for rep grinding and Azerite grinding) and gathering professions (which you must hate, because grinding?)

There are lots of games for people with limited time. WoW isn’t one, it’s an MMO. It’s a grindy MMO. It has been since Classic. If you don’t have half an hour a day to do an emissary quest WoW isn’t a game your the audience of.

You say these are the basics. They aren’t. Flying is a high level skill and it’s access makes the game trivial in a lot of ways. Allied races are literally reskins of existing models with one new ability. You don’t “need” them. They are epic. Basic mounts are available, your race vendor and your faction flight mounts. That’s it. The rest are optional. Transmog skins are basic, and that’s why you’re given some nearly every other quest while levelling.


Level 40 not 20, and even then chances are they couldn’t afford it.

Edit…beaten to it lol.


I highly doubt they unironically think that world quest counters reputations are fun

Reps have never been an issue, the issue is how you acquire it in BFA and how slow it is
also rares and rare elite WQs give just as much as regular WQs, which was a big difference compared to Legion and low-key felt like a punch in the gut


Really? Either your mount can fly or it can’t. If it can fly in Kalimdor, it can fly in Boralus. It’s a flying mount. Get real.


Do you find it slow ? I mean you need the mission table for the champion or Azeroth but i found it pretty easy. I usualy had 2 or 3 paragon chest per week from emissaries and faction assault, so >20.000 rep per week without trying to farm it. (Mostly for honorbound though)

Seems about right imo

(Teknetia) #20

This ain’t real life though. This is a game.

If everyone could fly in the new zones immediately, it would make the game extremely trivial.

The no flying worked in WoD, it worked in Legion and it works in BFA. Once you have proved you have done a sufficient amount of content in the expansion, you can then skip it by flying.

Flying should be a tool to speed up going through old content. It should not be a tool to get through new content quicker.


It feels slow, or rather the fact that it’s only from WQ’s and only for 75 rep a quest makes it feel very grindy and basically just makes me want to avoid it on all alts after having gotten it on my main

I believe flying and AR’s should be behind a rep gate, but at the same time the rep grind is so dull that it feels like it takes forever because it’s objectively just not enjoyable to keep repeating the same wq’s over and over and over


ITS OVERKILL. I think they trying to say.