I would say Ret

I would say Ret is almost there in terms of the nerfs it recieved. Sure its still strong, but it cant be completely useless, otherwise what was the point in changing it?

I’d say its sustain damage is fine, but needs less burst. 1 minute wings with such a long up time is probably the only broken thing. Oh, and Judgements of the Pure needs an internal cool down. Other than that its fine, still has pretty poor mobility, but I would say ret was tuned right in Shadowlands, not OP, not terrible.

We’ll get there. I think it does need tuning down a bit, but also wings needs to be scary, I just think the duration needs reducing in PvP, or the cool down needs increasing. 1.5 mins would probably do it.


Imo they need to re-rework the dispel on judgement.
It’s a good example of one button doing too much on its own.

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Theres a difference between “scary” and “may, or may not full on global you” and i think we´re far, far off from having rets be “almost there”.

Rets currently has no compromises what so ever in their kit. They dispel just by existing, are never a kill target anymore due to absurd tankiness that looks like pre nerfed dk in the start of the expansion and ontop of that hits like 3 freecasting destro locks with berserk buff and saltwater potions inside a BG. The whole “mobility” argument is long dead aswell because first off with freedom n mountup they arent even that immobile to begin with not to mention they do all their crap from ranged anyways.

No one is queing arena anymore, myself included and for good reason. I would rather go back to guardian druid meta than see another ret paladin.

From 1 day ago on another post.
Instead of actually trying to give choices on what they could potentially nerf you just want them gone. I understand you are a ret hater, but thats just plain funny xd

:joy: No comments.

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Facing ret is like one of those dreams where you’re fighting but your hands are really slow. There is no outplaying or outskilling them.

You need to be on an industrial grade copium if u think ret is anywhere near balanced. It is the most blatantly broken spec since S5 DK 15 YEARS ago.

yes 60k+ sustain is fine, RET IS GOD TIER.

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If it were up to me to balance ret, I would:

  • remove the “Judgment of the pure” or whatever it’s called talent
  • make wings 1min 30sec instead of 1min
  • remove the spell bubble talent or make it replace BoP so you can’t have both

After such nerfs, ret would still be easily S tier

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I also feel like the range+dmg is too high when you can bubble and do it. Previously, you could outrun them… But with the range it’s not really easy lol

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Yeah, that should be reverted so that all damage done whilst in bubble is reduced by 50%. Think thats how it used to be a while back.

The issue with bubble is, its either insane or trash, its never in the middle.
Priest can MD and warriors can shattering throw it, so whenever those 2 are metas (which arms warrior or even priest mostly is) it effectively removes 1 bubble. So a 50% dmg reduction in divine shield (pvp only) could potentially fix it for lobbies where theres no priest or warrior.

They share CD unless you didnt know. Yes you have both, but you can only use one. 5min CD.

Yeah, I know, but still you have both and can choose depending on the situation, while I still think you should be able to only have one and go with it

There are never a reason to pick spellwarding if you are going to use protection. Only reason to pick spellwarding is due to the fact the danger is casters.
Ppl basically uses a macro (atleast most do I think?) that uses spellwarding over protection when its picked. So if they make it “replace it”, it wouldnt rly make much different in that part

Got it, makes sense. Probably not as big of a deal really.

I’ve watched a lot of ret matches last few days, and honestly i’m yet to see a single one have issues reaching/hitting a target.

Why is it that people keep pushing this lack of mobility line, yet rets out there doing 60k dps + for whole rounds.

2 charges of steed + non stop dispell and ranged melee abilities means you probably have the least issue with cc/getting to your target in the whole game.

This is not me defending rets state, just me trying to explain the mobility part.

The thing with ret currently is that, yes, we have 20yard range on FV and 30yard range on judgement. Lets remove judgement of the pure out of the picture since it most likely will be removed or changed.
Mages are usually the counter on rets, with freedom being dispellable you can spellsteal the freedom and slow them, leaving them with “2 divine steeds” while slowed. We can keep casting judgements if you are 30yards and FV if 20yards or closer, but the instant you are beyond that, its 0. So with most classes that have dispel/slow/root combination would counter rets and make their mobility bad, but you need those 2-3 combinations for that and just stay at 31+ yards away.
So if we are comparing just the mobility, then rets is on the lower side even if we have a 20yard FV.

If I am wrong, people are free to explain it to me.

  1. Mages are the counter to nearly all melee. (esp frost)

  2. You’re putting rets in a 1v1 situation. Yes, a ranged dps may be able to keep rets at range and win like that, but what about everyone else.

  3. Arena games arn’t 1v3, the ret has 2 other players with him keeping the enemy close, or just by the fact the enemy has to attack his team the ret will never be out of range unless they’re up against a double caster lobby. EVEN then you have more chance that any other melee as your abilities are ranged and you have non stop dispell.

I said that at the start.

  1. As it basically should be.
  2. Then we can discuss everything on everyone at that part since most comps helps eachother in one way or another.
  3. As explained, I based on Judgement of the Pure being removed which also means other classes will have higher dmg since they wont be dispelled by the ret.

Most people argue on rets alone and nothing else.

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