crimson vial should be 45-1min cd or 20% of max hp. With the insane hp pools %hp spells like crimson vial are nuts right now.
Assassination
Kidney Shot, Toxic Blade and Marked for Death line up at 30 seconds every time causing the spec to have overbearing single target pressure by just pressing kidney on kill target on cd and doing max pve dmg.
This rotation needs to be bricked by making either toxic blade or marked for death a 40-1 min cd ( marked for death would be the better skill to nerf imo it’s WAY to strong at 30 sec for assa)
Poisioned knife needs to be nerfed to a 30% crippling slow from 60% it’s actually insane how good this spell is
Prune internal bleeding kidney should not amp dmg this much
Subtlety
Remove Shadowy duel. Honestly this spell is so bugged and broken in certain comps that i think it’s limiting every thing else this spec can do because of it’s potential to complety reset stun dr’s off trap/sheep. If this speel is to be removed however sub would maybe need more consistent dance dmg to compensate.
Nerf blood of the enemy r3 for sub in arena and buff consistent dmg during dance. This is essence actually beyond insane if you have the gear for it is unbalanceable because of the variance in eviserate damage.
Add garrote as an honor talent if you remove duel but only make it useable from STEALTH not dance or put a cd on it in dance. sub rogue actually have like 0 reason to restealth atm becuase of the dance reset mechanic the only reason to stop hitting someone is to avoid cleave or go for lucky sap or something.
Outlaw
Remove the cd reduction on blind when talented and buff it’s dmg by alot (NOT DEADSHOT) and see what happens from there. honestly no one can say whats exactly wrong (other then dmg lol) with this spec cuz noone plays it/ plays against it. buff it’s dmg for like 4 weeks see what happens idk just do something with it
ALSO
Remove relentless and adaption replace that tier with a pvp only modifier like 10% increased dmg/ or dmg reduction things that remove trinketing one of the most important things to learn in arena should not be replaced by passives holy REMOVE RELE HOLY FLIP
They need to fix subs evis. A spell shouldnt have a hit range between 13 and 70k. Having our crit talent butchered is also upsetting.
Maybe its better with blood but thats just to fix the hole the crit talent left. And give poisons, remove nightblade and make it a bleed. This whole ‘everything must be shadowy’ bullcrap is dumb.
As for assa, ib should never exist and mfd should be a minute. Tb wont be nerfed; it would hurt them too much in pve.
Do you use blood as sub/sv? Ive only played sub/fire but on an alt who doesnt have it so ive never tested it
acting like you play rogue cuz you want it nerfed or what, this is not a change this is a nerf, rogue in itself isent over performing compared to alot of other, there are pletny of good classes right now, reason RMD is so strong is mostly cuz of healing is op, if healers acctualy had to heal the stronger cleaves would kill RMX easier, if you get my point. cuz they are more squishy.
It shouldn’t exist.
Class who can control match shouldn’t heal. It leads to unfun and unbalanced strategy of Rogue prolonging game until he heals up. Which is viable since he not only has Stealth but also great control.
I’d say class should either have to avoid damage or heal it, not both. Defensives, Stealth and Control is already great tools at avoiding damage. If you both avoid and heal it’s unbalanced (design-wise).
WIth unbalanced design comes rock-paper-scissor unfun game play of countering.
MY PROPOSITION:
Stealth should slow Rogue by 25%, it might make Rogue more findable and it’s mechanic requires some good playstyle on both sides (Rogue and enemies) for them to achieve their goals, instead of being uncounterable mechanic
Subterfuge removed (for similar reason as slower movement during Stealth), by removing punishment from getting found the game becomes more boring and Rogue’s becoming more easy and counterability is butchered
Self-heals removed (again, class based around avoiding damage shouldn’t have self healing too).
In my opinion learning how to avoid AoE and not getting caught in stealth while you’re slowed is much more fun skill to learn, than which button to press when.
There are skills and skills. And those sort of strategic skills are fun to me, while “knowing which cooldown to trade with which” same as everybody does isn’t fun, but rather scripted.
It’s a difference of composing music vs playing music. Composing music is more fun and game should lead you the way so you can compose music (Classic does this well). Instead the game now is no-downsides buttons you have to trade in some manner (Skill capped tells you) and you basically play music.
When a robot can play the game (aka games becomes about noticing stuff, quick reaction and perfecting scripted gameplay) then game becomes insanely unfun to me. When a person can craft their strategy and way through game, it’s fun. That requires counterable spells and spells that have both upsides and downsides.
The spec that’s left behind in the arms race of mobility/self healing will become unviable. I don’t mind seeing nerfs like this, but it should be something done to all spec’s.
Some ideas are kinda good.
But why the hell would you reduce vial as a self heal. even fire mage has more „heal“
Warlock and dk / dh have up to 4 Times more heal. While they have way more dmg.
I wish they would bring back WoD sublety
The Legion sub reducing cd of dance by uptime completely destroyed sub.
I really respect you for playing it at high lvl
For me Sublety died in Season 18.
Assa is the easy rogue, the way to go rogue.
But it’s the only spec that is actually feeling like rogue…
Self-healing is for warlock the core of their survivability, for dh and dk it’s way too much actually you can’t do anything to make them run away or play defensive.
I think you guys are confounding about the core design of lock (cause what makes destro really tanky is the armor) and the other broken spec and or trinket pve which is not the same.
Seems like nerfs more so than changes, the class is unfun to play in most scenarios as it is. Why gut more button presses? Literally main rogue and it makes me puke in my mouth having to bare with what the class is, as it is currently.
Would be nice to see actual changes like maybe outlaw being just combat again and a nice apology from blizzard about how much of a waste the “yaaarh RNG” mechanics were.
Preparation potentially being baseline even if only for PVE? Just to make up for how garbage of a mechanic stealth is given it breaks with 99% of new patches.
Assa getting a bit of flexibility instead of heavily committing into ST or AOE, blind side being baseline and a new offensive CD taking place on row 15.
And lets face it, the one charge dance for sub as OP as it was, was a really good iteration of the class if not the best. Not sure what the legion sub rogue was like but it seemed to do juicy damage too Not sure if it was actually fun to play however.
I know I’m just afking at 1800/1900 and don’t really get a “Opinion” in the eyes of people who religiously play but I’ll be damned if I see rogue devolve back to a pillar humping class.
nope, every single healer has way 2 high output, disc is the only one that gets trained, they still have high healing output, go watch 2s it will explain how the meta is, slow phased, some comps faster than others, but its with damp even
the iteration of rogue since legion is overall just terrible.
shadow dance 3 stacks is beyond stupid and if you play the spec, also not exactly fun.
I liked the woltk version a lot better with 1min cd and no subterfuge.
Sub rogue can’t have dmg as long as this iteration of shadow dance exists in the game
can’t save pvp without redesigning almost all specs
The problem is that beside warrior every class has self-heals and some of them quite alot. It’s not healers healing output whats the problem is the lack of sustained damage combine with self heals + healing.
You literally can’t kill anything without cds
Can’t make a DH or a do run away? What? I remember a time that if you ever let a lock cast on you it was game over insta dead in two minutes so I don’t know what your talking.
DK DH self healing is fine all these tank trinkets and azerite absorbs/defensives however need removing.
And to the rogue further up who said dh does too much damage you realise that dh damage is mostly cleave and in nowhere as high as rogue single target is and rogue has ms making your damage almost double what a DH is to heal through.
REMOVE RELE HOLY FLIP
about how much of a waste the “yaaarh RNG” mechanics were.
Not sure if it was actually fun to play however.
