Immune classes?


#24

Ok I corrected myself too quickly haha! Bubble and deal 50% damage… Derp derp derp


#25

But yeah back on point, I wonder what actually made blizzard think Paladin should be able to go immune and burst at the same time… Shaman with immunity for Ascendance or Locks with immunity for infernal… Jesus imagine the uproar


#26

Yeah immunity which increases your dmg is OP in PvP. Even if it lasts for 10 seconds, in arena those 10 seconds can make you win. Sure everybody say KITE RETS because this is one common rule now, but what if someone will fail to kite and must go to toe with enemy which cannot be hurt, but can hurt you badly?


#27

If a retri is actually planning to bubble burst though, logically they would save HoJ and Divine Steed… So even if you trinket they can chase without being slowed.

Suppose it’s all just about playing it clever, if you manage to survive it then you’re likely to win because they have ‘‘put all their eggs in 1 basket’’.

And if they did change the way bubble works Retri would just be easy mode for all ranged dps.


#28

Yeah i think so too, retri is all about good cd managment (every pala spec is). If someone goes for stun inside a bubble or is chasing you via divine steed while being bubbled then it’s a waste and they have nothing left. Ofc they had spell which caused judgement to slow targets so they couldn’t move faster than paladin IIRC. That was red judgement icon for sure.


#29

The immunities are pretty lame for PvP, especially wPvP and alot can be said about it all (self heals etc) taking away from unique abilities.

Once upon a time, only a Pally could be immune and only Healing classes could heal, meaning class selection was important in many situations.

I think the mechanics are too far incorporated into the play now and so my thoughts are simply remove the ability to damage whilst casting a damage immunity (not reduction).

Example… DH’s doing AoE stun and massive AoE pressure whilst being immune to all damage is pretty lame in wPvP.


#30

I agree mostly, I’d put it down to 50% damage done while immune… However bubble is the only complete immunity move. DH you can’t damage but you can CC… Monk is the same in Karma, same with Ray of Hope from Holy Priest.

If a class can go immune to damage, they should either have damage or movement speed reduced in my opinion otherwise you can’t counter it


#31

Yes.

The issue is the full immunity AND ability to damage at the same time.

This can often also be used very offensively by popping immunity then bursting somebody who can’t hit you back.


#32

Sometimes when i’m in hectic pvp vs few opponents i’m using Evasion + Cloak to be immortal for few seconds, after that time i have killed 2 opponents or vanished to regain health and cooldowns, kinda op.


(Karanze) #33

Does nobody in here realise that OP is saying it’s dumb that a few classes can ignore core mechanics not just for themselves, but for the entire raid?

Jadefire fight - Hunters with turtle, DH with netherwalk or rogue with cloak can run around and clear all the traps with no penalty. This effectively removes the mechanic from the fight and gauntlet phase.

Opulence - Have any class with immunity take Coin Shower out of the raid and solo soak it. Rogues can’t sneak their way out of this one at least.

It’s stuff like the above that’s unfair.
At least something like Touch of Karma only applies to yourself, and isn’t a true immunity but rather a 50% hp shield + damage deflection.


#34

Pretty sure he’s just crying that he doesn’t have an immune move and other people do…

he doesn’t like that he pops his whole burst and they just immune it.

Cheesing mechanics for a whole raid is pretty, well, cheesy, but thats not what he’s crying about


(Karanze) #35

Well this would be the actual argument for why immunities are bad design. Not all though, something like a mage’s iceblock is okay since you’re stunned while blocking damage.


(Mêphâlâ) #36

Major problem is that current gameplay design team doesn’t understand real impact of immune abilities on the actual gameplay and PvP.

Why old paladins, mages or rogues CoS (anti magic) immune was justified?
Well they was only two classes whom had access to that form of ultimate defence.

  • Paladins - back in the days, their mobility was not that good as now, and they suffered from it, they had just to tank they way out the fight.
  • Mages on the other hand, has iceblock because they didn’t had baseline ways of selfhealing.
  • Rogues was simmilar to mages, but they had some ways of dealing with melee damage, and CoS was they ability to survive casters, and yet again they didn’t had self heals.

Now, immune abbilities is overpowered relic of the past. Now almost all classes has access to mobility, self-heals, damage mitigation abbilities and ETC. Some of the classes works better then others, for sole reason of blizzard bias interest in developing classes.
And now when what 6 out of 12 classes has access to immune spells, only few has access to abilities that can counter immune.

Whole class gameplay design/abilities distribution ideology is flawed.


#37

I love it when people say that wanting the game to be balanced is crying :smiley:

I wouldn’t care if my burst is gone because of bubble anyway, it would actually feel good to trade 1.5 min CD for 5 min CD.
What my fellow warrior wrote - about in PvE it’s mandatory to have immune class clear mechanics - you call it cheesing - I call it bad design. Blizz makes a mechanic, a paladin ignores it because they give him the IWIN button.

Sure, divine shield was fine when it was in the RTS and it saved the pally in an army vs army situation. Not cool when it’s army of paladins vs army of paladins tho.

Also - in PvP - I was playing with healer priest and a friend and every time he died I was like - dude just use your immune ability like a normal guy :smiley:


#38

Crying about 1 singular mechanic that some classes have in their toolkit isn’t going to balance the game… If you take bubble from Paladin, Turtle from Hunter and CoS / Evasion from rogues then in PVP they aren’t going to be playable.

You’re original post was just crying, now someone has made a valid point you’re just clinging to it.

It’s not technically mandatory though is it? It’s just easier and more efficient to have a rogue clear meteors with cloak or hunters with shell… It cheeses the mechanic and yes Blizzard should make the damage hit through Immune moves but at a lower rate.


#39

Sure, removing immune from them will make them uplayable but other classes are OK perfectly playable while not having it? Interesting :slight_smile:
And you keep writing about crying.
Some mechanics are mandatory soaks, instead of 3 - 4 ppl soaking, having 1 person do it increases overall DPS, clear advantage. We are talking about defensive cooldown giving DPS, does this sound right?
But of course you are just trolling the thread making it about me, not about immune, because you are too bothered of my crying. How dare I want to que for skrimish and actually fight instead of one target being immune for 6 sec and another for 10, while doing 100% dmg to me.It’s a fact and a problem. Keep writing about crying, if I didn’t want the game to be good i would just quit it -_-


#40

No I’m not trolling, are you legit trying to argue that Hunters will be fine without Turtle? And if Rogues lost CoS and Evasion? Paladin with no bubble would just be lols even for me as Enhancment

Because the other classes have other built in mechanisms to make them less squishy?

Defensive cooldowns allowing higher dps - this has always happened, pvp and pve wise.

But once again instead you’ve now reverted away from a legit reason for wanting less immunes in PVE to stop cheesing mechanics… To wanting to be able to full burst in Skirmirsh and not get immuned haha.

Making the thread about you? It’s your thread??? If you actually read up I agree that Immunity should put a slow or damage done reduction when activated, but no immunities shouldn’t be fully removed. Let’s go back to the days were whoever bursts first wins? No thanks, lets keep as much counter play possible in the game. You do this, so I use this to counter then you have to do that to counter my counter


#41

I am not asking for pruning immunes, I am asking for nerfing them. Another fact - shield wall got pruned, as well as enraged regeneration( now called crimson vial on half cd) while hand of protection got buffed so you can attack using it and even got 2 charges via talent. Are you seriously defending Devs that think this is balanced?

Speaking of counterplay I will tell you some counterplays:
Paladin uses bubble - run away, don’t attack
Paladin uses blessing of protection - run away, don’t attack
Paladin uses shield of sacrifice - bubble - run away, don’t attack
Paladin uses wings - run away, don’t attack
Paladin uses eye for an eye - why are we even saying we are doing PvP anymore?

I made a Paladin a while ago - I destroyed warriors while being immune, provided immune for my team, healed them and did the most damage. And I don’t even know how to play them!

You know what, the whole thing is just funny. You can say how bad I am or how good you are but the thing is no-one will care. So sure, let’s have forum war, at least it’s more balanced than the game’s PvP :slight_smile:


(Mêphâlâ) #42

Immune mechanics was justified when classes had some weaknesses, like rogue’s CoS was their way to deal with casters, when rogues mobility was on larger CD, and rogues didn’t had baseline heals.
Now, when rogues mobility is OP as hell, and they have crimson vial on 30 sec CD, immune effect of CoS is unjustified.


#43

So you think you can prune more from game mechanics? That’s a bad idea, destroying class fantasy that’s what are you talking about. FFS it was aenough kiddies. Bring back Blizzard to the old class design or something similar, and leave the game gray, characterless kiddos! It’s not your game!!4444 Put your sh@t music on and play solitaire!!!