Ion take my levels!

[Nerika-quelthalas]

I get you - it’s like the tree in Neverwinter only there, you could only level up your abilities by four levels, they have a paragon tree as well so, effectively you get two lots of abilities and 2 points per level gained; one for the main ability and one for the paragon tree. Level cap there is 70.

From what you describe, it still sounds a whole heap better than what we have now, and I never really had a problem with what we already have until I started reading this thread. Still too new to the game in many ways I suppose.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

@Tahen-pozzo-delleternità

Wrath capped at 80, 40lvl less than today. It’s a huge difference.
Imagine you can measure the power gap between lv 1 and max level with a number, 10. To have a linear growth, you have to divide 10 for the number of levels. 10/80 is 0,12, 10/120 is 0,8 and each level you gain this a power increase.
The more level you have, the smaller the gain you get, especially after a stat squish that shrink the initial number.

That’s not how power increases work. You can’t just make a blanket statement like that. You’re not taking in to account the levels on where you learn a new ability, the levels on where you replace your weapon with a better items and such.

Not to mention that this is different for every single class.

@Nerika-quelthalas

I didn’t know there were class quests as well! They have those, as well as race quests, in Neverwinter and I really enjoyed them.

Ohh yes! and it was glorious! Warriors got incredibly items, for example there was this 2-H axe called [Whirlwind Axe], It was something every warrior looked forward to while they were leveling. You’d first obtain the quest at lv30 and it was a decently long quest-chain but you could obtain the weapon at lv30 if you received some help.

This thing would last you for 10+ levels easily and you’d shred through mobs.

Easily one of the best quest rewards ever made… Too bad they removed it. A massive shame.

@Nerika-quelthalas

I’d love to see these in WoW - I’d say again but for me it would be a completely new thing!

For many players it would, I really wish that you and others would be able to experience its glory!

@Nerika-quelthalas

So perhaps you, and the other posters who have said this are correct, it’s not a level squish we need, but more talents!

Well you’d have to remove the current talent tree and put the old one back in its place, but yes! …this current talent tree actually ruins my fun as a warrior, too many abilities that I need to have baseline (and have had baseline in previous years) are now talented; Disarm, Spell Reflection, Bladestorm, Storm bolt, etc… Currently talents only give me my baseline toolkit… rather than enriching my gameplay. It’s not fun at all.

@Dagga-mazrigos

Not so much needing to make my own poisons and always having vanishing powder on me

Ohh the times I ran out of arrows randomly on my hunter…

@Dagga-mazrigos

warrior stances

@Tèsla-silvermoon

even before scaling, levelling was a pain for ppl who played 5+ years.

Erm… care to elaborate? the only thing I remember being a pain was the leveling speed that was fixed by Heirlooms… but heirlooms’ stats were too high, so that ruined leveling… and then they casualized the entire game and now we’re all one-shotting things… sooo…

@Dagga-mazrigos

Don’t get us wrong here, they were VERY different.

@Nerika-quelthalas

Still too new to the game in many ways I suppose.

Here’s a link to what the old talent trees looked like in Wrath of the Lich King. Behold their glorious err-- Glory!

wotlk. evowow. com/?talent#L

(just remove the spaces in the link, I’m not allowed to post links apparantly)

[Radium-dragonblight]

How leveling would feel more rewarding to me, if i could just make the system for myself:

Bring old talent tree back with minimum of 60 points to spend. Vanilla style with ability to load one tree full or sprinkle points to make hybrid specs. Rewards from dinging would go something like this:

• Every other ding would give talent point.
• Every other ding would either give new spell (this would be around 30 or so in total) or gift basket (when not getting a spell). Gift basket would have decent amount of gold (depending what level you ding) and one transmog item you can pick from 3 different options of your armor type (so no rng, pick one you like). Could have other little nice things too ofc (pets, toys etc.), with variety making it worth leveling many different characters to collect whole sets of things.

On top of that, drop some of end game activities to leveling brackets (world quests, islands, warfronts, all rewarding leveling gear and xp) to have more things to do when leveling. Have them available from lvl 20 onwards. Riding skills, different dungeons and such would open on same levels than now.

I would be happy just with this

[Nerika-quelthalas]

@Razien-quelthalas

Ohh yes! and it was glorious! Warriors got incredibly items, for example there was this 2-H axe called [Whirlwind Axe], It was something every warrior looked forward to while they were leveling. You’d first obtain the quest at lv30 and it was a decently long quest-chain but you could obtain the weapon at lv30 if you received some help.

This thing would last you for 10+ levels easily and you’d shred through mobs.

Sounds great! Yes please! My main is a rogue - it’d be great to get something relevant for her like this!

@Razien-quelthalas

wotlk. evowow. com/?talent#L

Oh myyy!! That is different. It reminds me of another game I played a long time ago although the name of it escapes me. Is it possible to get nostalgic for something you’ve never experienced in this game?

And the glyphs!! I do remember those but, again, came back from a break and they’d gone!

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

Is it possible to get nostalgic for something you’ve never experienced in this game?

If the game’s system is thát amazing, sure! haha

[Radium-dragonblight]

. It reminds me of another game I played a long time ago although the name of it escapes me.

World of warcraft was that game!

edit: i mean, it reminds me of something i played long time ago

[Ishayu-frostmane (Ishayu)]

As far as i know they did not say they would reverse scaling if they squish levels. I would find it surpricing if they did after all the work they just put into it.

I hate the way they did scaling too, the feeling of leveling down on 111-120 is horrid. I see that as example of what can go wrong when you try to fix something and i worry we end up with similar style of problem if they start to mess around with levels. So for me level squish is not showing as something that would fix that but something that would cause more same kind of problems on top of what we got now.

So to wrap up, i want same things than you here, but i think solution you support would not bring it to us, quite opposite. It’s like having a school nurse offer to do you a heart surgery… even if you really need one it might be good idea to step back and think another way to do it.

idk man if you need a heart surgery you probably should get one before it bloody kills you. A little bit of medication and bandaids really aren’t going to do it. I think what you mean is trying to evaluate whether or not you need a heart surgery before you get one - but in this case I’d say the patient is getting pretty dire. The sheer amount of hoops and crazy half-broken systems we’re having to suffer through just so that we can have 120 character levels is quite extreme. Nothing good is coming from this.

You’re right that if they don’t walk back on the dynamic scaling, it really doesn’t matter anyway. Sometimes you just gotta admit you ****ed up. No disrespect for the people who developed the tech, but we’ve had a string of high-profile failures back-to-back of game after game implementing this kind of system. Anthem is a particularly ridiculous example.

Hope they’re grown up enough to see that instead of just saying “NO! IT WAS MANY WORK! ME SAD NOW SO YOU CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!”

[Nerika-quelthalas]

I don’t think it was, I only remember the playing with current talent tree in this game. I do remember the glyphs though. Unless I’m getting completely confusticated!

Now your edit’s got me all confussed again - think I’ll go back to writing my essay now!

[Ishayu-frostmane (Ishayu)]

It’s probably Diablo 2.

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/diablo_gamepedia/3/37/Sorceress_Skill_Trees_%28Diablo_II%29.png?version=62b584c535936ddfbde88ec726834446

[Tèsla-silvermoon (Tèsla)]

Erm… care to elaborate? the only thing I remember being a pain was the leveling speed that was fixed by Heirlooms… but heirlooms’ stats were too high, so that ruined leveling… and then they casualized the entire game and now we’re all one-shotting things… sooo…

This is what i mean: For ME playin since vanilla (last 2 months of it in truth) is running the same old content the pain. Not scaling. Oneshotting or not. Killing the 100000000000000000000000 time the princess Therazasomethin or reading the teary story of Mor Ladim is my problem.
Since i consider levelling my main activity (i dont like run m+ and raid) for ME it was and it is somethin bad that the content is always the same (at every pace).

[Radium-dragonblight]

I don’t think it was, I only remember the playing with current talent tree in this game. I do remember the glyphs though. Unless I’m getting completely confusticated!

That link was wows old talent trees. Thinking of other games with similar ones, at least Rift had similar, alltough it was way more complicated (in a good way) but still similar structure. Haven’t played Rift for few years now so it might be different now.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

This is what i mean: For ME playin since vanilla (last 2 months of it in truth) is running the same old content the pain. Not scaling. Oneshotting or not. Killing the 100000000000000000000000 time the princess Therazasomethin or reading the teary story of Mor Ladim is my problem.
Since i consider levelling my main activity (i dont like run m+ and raid) for ME it was and it is somethin bad that the content is always the same (at every pace).

Well that’s why scaling can be a great thing: It allows you to not go to the ghostlands and instead go to a zone that was previously not available to you on that level.

That’s the whole reason they made zones scale: So you can pick and choose for variety!

[Nerika-quelthalas]

Rift had similar

And you win today’s prize! I think that was it! Thanks, that was starting to drive me nuts trying to remember which game it was!!!

But yes, a return a similar system does sound like a great way to go - if Blizz are willing!

[Tèsla-silvermoon (Tèsla)]

i finished that variety (excluding BFA ofc) years ago. But i understand that the ppl playin since the begin isnt the majority

[Aylish-emerald-dream (Aylish)]

Before this Q&A I have never even once heard of any player, new or not say that they’re intimidated by having to level 119

Then you haven’t paid attention.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

Then you haven’t paid attention.

To be fair minorities are easy to miss.

[Aylish-emerald-dream (Aylish)]

Depends what you read. I’ve seen loads of these types of posts, but yeah, anything can be easy to miss. There har also been multiple suggestions regarding a level squish over the years.

Personally I am not bothered by what they choose here, but if it goes the right way(in my opinion), it would mean more zones to pick between when leveling up. I am an altoholic, so leveling doesn’t bother me, but I’d like to see more scaling and more relevant content as you level up. I think it sounds more realistic to manage if they squish the levels.

[Razien-quelthalas (Razien)]

Well sure I see alot of people complain that leveling is boring but never that ‘119 levels are too many’.

[Aylish-emerald-dream (Aylish)]

There is probably more about “leveling being boring” indeed, but plenty have also said they find the amount of levels to be ridiculous on paper, and requested a level squish. It’s not your daily post though.

[Tèsla-silvermoon (Tèsla)]

if i remember well when they announced that the new level cap in BFA would be 120 there it was a huge wall of moaning. And the boooooooooooo were louder when they announced no talent dinging 120