Sounds like PvE and not PvP. Then again, the average PvP player can’t hack it in ranked anyway and wants to stomp easy targets. That’s why scaling was so unpopular. A lot of “git gud” types suddenly found themselves losing left and right.
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They should invent that system it would go down a storm! Who would complain!
i warmode a lot, when ever some one with bfa gear comes in to attack my fresh char, nothing i can do buuuuut this is the end of an expansion.
I feel the gear from the scourge event will be too weak as well. Should be heroic level.
What ever though soon it will all be balanced at 60 again and if the games sht everyone will quit again and wait 2 more years.
Its simply not something that blizzard are able to do or even want to do, worse still is that i think the current playerbase wont accept anything less, why bother working toward mythic +15 if your gear doesnt destroy someone who does mythic 5s
I was doing some BGs on this character who is pretty undergeared and i found that shadowmourne was actually somewhat useful because of its stacking strength buff, it wasnt quite as good as the ilvl 80 sword i had as well but i was still able to kill some players etc, although BGs i think have just been a case of “destroy the enemy team” or “get destroyed” regardless of ilvl or class.
I think that most players are purely loot driven or cosmetic driven, if its not a noticeable increase in strength or a shiny new cosmetic, why bother? Finding the balance is going to be something blizzard will have to work harder at in shadowlands.
I think bfa has been the largest increase in player power (aside from legion) in the games history, and shadowlands seems to be the same case. I certainly dont envy their position but i dont think they are going to figure out a good solution
This guy gets it 
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I think it’s a little more historical.
Back in Classic there was no PvP gear (for a while), however the option to fight other players was there without constraints except in a few zones, so a level 60 could go and harass a level 21 until either side got bored. I’ve been oneshot by stealthy rogues in the middle of Ashenvale questing zones. So you’d get in dungeons and raids to get the competitive edge.
If not earlier, BC added gear that was obtainable by PvP only, however had a funny stat (resilience) that would make it inferior for PvE purposes and superior for PvP, to prevent players gearing up in the other game mode.
In contrast, the Diablo 3 team scratched PvP, I guess for the same reasons (gear discrepancy - was way less in D3V).
Right now I’d direct players either towards a MOBA or GW2 for ARPG PvP, admittedly I’m not entirely sure about the latter. There is gear but some scaling was involved when I tried.
I seem to recall WoW used to have a gear cap mode back in Cataclysm, possibly in rated battlegrounds, but it’s covered by the fog of the past. Same concept as MoP dungeon speed mode. Still, to keep players engaged and paying their subs, every patch added stronger gear both for PvE and PvP.
Overall I see Blizzard players preferring evergrowth and big numbers. Gives a sense of progress and superiority.
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Again? 
When was it even somewhat balanced at max level?
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They really should have squished BFA gear also and just have things go up about 10 or so levels depending on content as they did for 1-49 gear. Sure it would feel like your current gear isn’t as important now, but considering that whenever they do this stat squish they immediately make the next expansion gear much better than the previous ones, which then escalates and soon makes the stat squish pointless as it always does, it could TRY to stop that happening so quickly into Shadowlands… try at least…
Not just that, it also makes Raids that aren’t current patch content obsolete. Raid finder also contributes to that.
We always just play the patch, everything is just so short term. I think that’s a shame, a lot of the raids are really interesting and to have them be a valid method of progression throughout the entirety of a expansion would be very healthy.
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Been saying that the whole time.
People need OTHER THINGS to measure progression other than ilvl.
Vanilla, TBC and WotLK had less ilvl bloat COMBINED than we now see in a single expansion these days.
When was the first ilvl squish? WOD. WoW ran through Vanilla, TBC, WotLK, Cata and MoP without needing to squish stats to reduce bloat. What do we have now?
Next only WoD and Legion and you were already hitting MILLION+ DPS. Stats were squished again.
NOW IT’S BEEN ONLY ONE EXPANSION and we needed to squish AGAIN! What does that tell you?
Instead of 3-5 tiers per expansion, we now get 15 tiers per PATCH… thanks a lot M+! This infantile genital measuring contest is killing the game.
Look at Elder Scrolls Online. Several expansions later, max level is still 50 since launch, all gear can be upgraded to maximum (yellow quality) BY YOURSELF (provided you grinded your crafting skills), and they’ve come through several expansions not on bamboo measuring contests (no ilvl grinding the same BS every patch to get a few more ilvl), but STORY, DESIGN and SHEER NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SET BONUSES you can mix&match.
Seriously. Firsts stat squish was after 4 expansions. Second after 2 expansions. third after 1 expansion. Are we supposed to expect stat squishes EVERY PATCH in Shadowlands?
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As far as progression goes, it’s not necessarily an issue that there is a gap at 50, it provides an endgame opportunity to those skipping an expansion. So you can legit raid and progress, although it’s indeed likely that most players outgear earlier tiers and then it’s pointless.
Plus, I’m not even sure you can legit raid at 50. The LFR dialog itself suggested to me it’s 60 only, i.e. “Premium Subscription Content (13/month + 60/2years)”, not “Regular Subscription Content (13/month)”.
For me personally, I don’t need gear progression much. Maybe have the gearing up from greens to epics, but let it end there, so that I can enjoy any and all content. Heck, that means it should stop with blues (dungeons). Alternatively, gear scaling (like MoP challenges) can solve that. Either way, the epics are sort of necessary to keep for transmog.
My personal wishlist begins with “queue for any dungeon”. Same line of thought.
I think / understand that to be the plan. Whenever a new expansion comes out, the old one goes into the 10-50 pool and everyone is reset to 50.
Same concept as GW2 except there are two endgames, one for premium subscribers at 60 and one for regulars at 50.
If not earlier, BC added gear that was obtainable by PvP only, however had a funny stat (resilience) that would make it inferior for PvE purposes and superior for PvP, to prevent players gearing up in the other game mode.
Funnily enough one or two pieces was still fine though some were even preferable depending where you were in the raid progress.
And was about the best I’ve seen gear work to date I think. A little light pvp … you got some sidegrades and a bit of fun times as well.
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I agree with this. There is no reason that the gear between the difficulties or raid tiers has to be that much higher ilvl. It seems to be made that way to lure people into that content, but realistically it would be enough if it was just any higher ilvl at all, even if it is just 5 points. And before someone says that wouldn’t be worth it anymore, people were fighting fiercly over a 3 ilvl difference between raiding and m+, so I am pretty sure 5 ilvl higher would be enough incentive for people to do the content. We don’t need 30+ ilvl difference between heroic and mythic raiding for example.
Otherwise we will need an ilvl squish almost every new expansion, which just feels like a bad solution.
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Its was 15 itemlvls per difficulty and 30 per tier. And yes you actualy need signitifacnt itemlvl jump if you want people to actualy get that gear. Look at diablo 3. You get 90% of power in 10% of time played and 10% power in 90% of time played. Which means lot of players stop playing in 90% of power gain becouse rest of 10% simply isnt worth of time and effort. If players would get most power by runing basic content and higher difficulties would offer such small uograde nobady would care except few minmaxers and top end raiders.
No Blizzard has to remove difficulty levels. Minimun of LFR and normal needs to be removed.
So why were people so mad about those 3 ilvl difference between m+ and mythic raiding?
I’m sorry, but if high numbers on a character sheet is all that makes people play raids and dungeons, I really have to wonder if they are not badly designed and/or if there is an unhealthy attitude within the community.
Progression means I do one difficulty of content and with the rewards I am able to do the next difficulty of that content, i.e. I progress through the content. Anything beyond that is not progression, it’s vanity.
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I have explained you already 100 times that for new tiers only heroic and mythic are adding ilvl, since normal is on the same ilvl as mythic previous tier. If you remove lfr and normal you keep exactly the same. It is a blizz game design decision to keep the players progressing like this per new tier.
People were not. We currently have +15 dungeons dropping +5 ilvl of heroic raiding, in shadowlands it becomes 3 lower than heroic raiding. That is what people were ‘mad’ about. Dungeons are nerfed (together with less loot per dungeon done).
I don’t get your point. Fact is, that people thought 3 ilvl were significant. Raiders said there were finally getting the reward they deserved and m+ players complained, that it wouldn’t be worth doing dungeons anymore. Because of 3 ilvl. Nobody needs 15 or 30 ilvl to be “convinced” of playing content or choosing a higher difficulty.
Also keep this in mind: What is now 15 ilvl used to be over 100 ilvl in legion. These squishes are slowly breaking the game. We have seen how some low level gems and items get harder and harder to balance so that they are not stronger than current content. So we already need a ton of rules to keep everything seperated and secondary stats go wildly up and down while leveling.
The 3 levels that makes it lower than heroic is significant since it is lower than heroic raiding. It makes dungeon loot obsolete (raid or die).
I know it is a mindset, but i am fine with jumping every expansion into something completely new. If they have to scale they have to scale. I also prefer players to be able to buy shadowlands and not be at disadvantage for not playing WoD or what other previous expansion. Just disable every old items/gems/enchants for new gear.