Let us be honest, the PvP is abysmal; A rant

So, considering PvP is about the only way to really get geared up, I have been playing this primarily on my Warrior. And let me tell you, I am NOT having fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not some guy who has never played PvP in his lifetime or is “Just there for gear” (Part of it is, other part is that I do have an interest in PvP), but frankly the short end of it is: I hate PvP in this game, in MMOs to be specific really.

Frankly, anytime when gear comes in to play in any PvP enviroment, the player with the best gear is going to be the one on top, no second guessing that. Sure you can cheese your way to victory through a certain strategy which may or may not work, depending on execution, but frankly someone who has 10k more health than you and better stats overall is no doubt going to be the one to pulverize you.

I have been doing the weekly quest with doing arenas, and out of fifteen or more arenas, I won… Two. One of which was a Balance Druid just doing everything by himself, the other one was when the enemy team was somehow equally geared as my team was. I was keeping an eye on the health bars as they were a good indication of what the enemy team would be like, and they all for the most part had higher amounts of health. Unsurprisngly so, they were the ones who’d turn me inside out. In fact one Shadow Priest had 40k health and managed to kill me and my teammate… By himself. He killed me first because I have only 24k health on my Warrior, the other guy lasted a bit longer becausehe had 30k, but still, didn’t need the Balance Druid to help him.

The only time I EVER played PvP for longer periods and ENJOYED it, was during Legion. Now some of you may end up throwing your soy lattes in a fit of rage seeing someone praise Legion for its PvP, the fact of the matter is, that it was a lot more welcoming and gave the irregular PvP player a fighting chance, thanks to Templated stats.

And let’s be honest, template stats were never the problem. Sure there were some fringe players that decided to throw blame on it because it meant that they wouldn’t be able to nuke people from the face of Azeroth, and that they faced a risk of getting killed by someone who normally wouldn’t be armed to the teeth, leading to use excuses like “RPG progression”, when in reality they just wanted easy rating from people who wanted to break in to PvP but weren’t geared for it.

No, the thing that really was a problem back then was class design and how compared to Warlords of Draenor the classes were pretty much butchered with even more abilities being taken away. It was ironically enough the only time I really did any PvP outside of low level brackets, and now I am back in to Warlords of Draenor territory, where whenever I decided to do any PvP, I’d be throwing myself as cannon fodder and effectively being useless with no ability to do anything useful.

To put it simply: Battlegrounds should have Templated stats again, and if you want your Big Daffy gear to make you feel powerful, there’s a pretty good mode for that. Two words: War Mode.

Frankly, I am just frustrated, I’d like to play the PvP with a bit more of a smile on my face but it’s proving to be really difficult to put a smile on when every encounter basically ends with getting obliterated by someone who’s played since launch and is geared with the best kind of gear possible. Or alternatively: Got a bunch of people to carry him in order to get gear to make himself feel powerful.

That’s all, really. I want Templated stats for Battlegrounds back. I want the Legion days again.


Template stats killed PvP partcipation during Legion. Why would people play battlegrounds if the gear rewarded serves no purpose?

Should we also get template stats in mythic+ then?

PvP is the best it’s ever been in so so long, and it’s really good right now. I encourage you to keep trying, there are many catchups mechanics in place right now. My friend’s warrior hit 60 two weeks ago, and he is already rocking 32k HP.


I see you’ll be dishonest about the reason. Weird since I’ve outlined it but okay.

The reason people were really feeling dry was the classes being butchered, leaving them essentially with very few options to play with for the most part. Some people decided to blame Template stats (Like you are), but really they were for the most part a minority.

Why would people play MOBA games when their characters don’t stay powerful after the match is over and they’re back to square one in the next match?

Well, I can tell you why: Wanting to show off their dominance outside of Battlegrounds, in the thing that is called War Mode. I hear it allows you to fight people in the open world.

This is a false equivalence and you know it is. Though I must admit I would be interested in seeing how it would turn out.

Really? Well I will politely disagree with you.

Yeah, I don’t exactly see the point in “Keep trying”, when losses net me a shrivel of Honor, and I need a bunch of it in order to upgrade my gear in order to be any good. I mean, what’s the point of playing PvP at that point, if you’re useless and you need a TON in order to really get anywhere?

Good for your friend. I don’t care.


m8… there is no end-game content, which doesnt require you to improve (gear up) your character. What would be the point of game if you could just level up and go 15+ keys/mythic raiding? Same goes for pvp. You are supposed to feel progress and growth of power of your character and be able to conquer the game. Priest with 40k hp should have like 217-220ilvl gear. He worked hard to get that gear… and there should be a “reward” for that =) He can now kill 5 players with 24k hp solo.


Why just not give to “option” to join a bg in gw2-fashion? Everyone can make his “meaningfull” choice of which to play. Or do you guys think that through this one option one kind of pvp would almost die?


Ah, so the Open World doesn’t exist, and neither does Torghast. Good to know.

This should be enough for me to disregard your post, but… I’m feeling generous, so I’ll keep reading.

I don’t know, to have fun I guess? I’m still interested in seeing how it would look to have “Template stats” as some smart donkey decided to propose.

Uhh… No, not really.

Yeah, I don’t exactly get all moist and wet whenever I play Heroes of the Storm and I face players who have no sense of survival. I highly doubt I’ll be having such a great time (At some point, assuming I care enough to continue doing PvP) being a 40k Warrior squishing other players.

There’s a reason I play MOBA games. There’s no “Progression” as you pretentiously decide to use as an excuse. Players are more or less on the same footing, leaving skill and Hero choice to really dictate how things turn out. It’s a whole lot more enjoyable.

Yeah. And that is a problem.
Okay, not really a problem, but it’s definitely making me just think “Why bother?” and just go do Torghast or go back to doing PvE. At least there I feel good and don’t have to really worry about knowing whether or not a mob is going to pulverize me due to having higher gear than me.

Frankly that Shadow Priest should really “Feel the Reward” in the open World, in War Mode. It’s what people were doing when they saw me during Legion, doubt they were pissing themselves being butthurt about Battlegrounds not letting them be superpowered.

Good job. You failed to convince me that Template stats are bad and why they shouldn’t be in the game for instanced PvP.

I approve of this. My girlfriend actually praised Guild Wars 2’s PvP because it was skill-based, rather than gear-based. Actually she doesn’t even want to do the Arena weekly quest because of how PvP in WoW is gear dependant rather than skill dependant. And it’s people like Opopedia who really don’t do anything to make it seem like a good thing.

It’d be fun to see just how people would gravitate more towards Templated PvP rather than “Gear PvP”. At least PvE and casual PvP players would appreciate it, given how they would have a fighting chance.


It’s ok to have PvP progression but right now the power gap is just pure insane.
Also the huge class imbalance doesn’t help things either.


I don’t mind people making progression via ratings and honor levels. That is after all one of the things that people seem really fixated on whenever they play MOBA games, that ever-so-coveted “Rating”.

The power gap certainly doesn’t make me want to do Arenas, neither seriously consider Rated Battlegrounds, I can tell you that much.

well the fact that you are trying to compare moba to mmo is enough for me to “disregard anything you say already”… but as a long time moba player i can find same logic there. If you play your early game good enough as a carry or mid player and get like 2lvls above everyone else and a gold for extra item, - you can win the 5 vs 5 game solo… it take like 10 minutes in a match of moba but take weeks in MMO… also your argument is “pvp is bad in mmo i like pve more”… well then go play pve i guess or moba ;). noone is forcing you to do something you dont like. (however i have to dissapoint you coz without gear progression the only activities you can do in wow are above mentioned Thorgast and world quests with war mode off)
p.s. you can also do pet battles!

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Okay. What are you doing here then?

Sorry, I only play Heroes of the Storm. Did however play League of Legends waaaaay back in the day, and I don’t see any corellation there.

Mostly because it STARTS ON THE SAME FOOTING. You don’t even get that in WoW.

I played Guild Wars 2’s PvP. It was good, because gear didn’t have any part in it.

I say “PvP in MMOs is bad” because no developer has come to the conclusion yet, that having gear be the defining thing that wins or loses games in instanced PvP enviroments is a BAD idea.

Yeah, no player specifically. But Blizzard certainly is pushing me towards it.


we all start at lvl 1 m8 =) as a person above mentioned - it take you like 2 weeks to get 32k hp if you know the game.
If the game had no progression system - noone would be playing it coz any activity would feel useles and borring after like 5-10 times (people play moba match and progress to win. they dont win the game with no items/level ups). There are games with no progression like Counter Strike but wow is about progression and everyone hated era, when there was pvp balancing. Blizzard turned it off for a reason.


MOBA games have no permanent progression, and yet they’re played constantly.

Heck, Heroes of the Storm has no real “Progression” aside from levelling up in the match, and the game is still played as well.

Blizzard forcing. Cause of bad balance, cause of gearing system in PvP they force me to do raids or Mythic+

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Pvp died cuz templates, nothing else. The sole reason i quit pvp in legion was because my character didnt progress. In fact, my character that i play for years - was as strong as your 1 day old alt. No thanks. Template sucks

I feel more of a balance in burst would be better. As I agree, full templates reduce the feeling of progressing. But at the same time, being killed in one stun lock is also extremely boring and frustrating. Being both killed in a stun lock, and for others to be able to kill that easily, reduces all skill IMO. Since there is no play or possibility to counter. And it goes both ways, sure it is fun to just melt someone with convoke, but it gets old fast. Especially if the pay off is that 10 sec later you are killed in a cheap shot.

What I really like is complex fights, where everyone utilize all skills and coordinate together. For example when you as a hunter, place the explosive trap just before someone is about to cap in WSG, then jumps in, takes the flag, disengages out, then places traps to stop pursuers and get away with it while team mates keep the enemies busy with slows, roots etc.

It also feels like skill in general is about 10-15% of the game now. The rest is gear and which class you play. I know this because I’m an altoholic. On some characters I just get blown up, no matter what I do. But on others I can easily dominate everything, with 18k0d top dmg etc etc.

Yeah. And this is why anyone I see here talking about “PvP died cuz templates” are pretend PvP players. People who pretend to be PvP fans, but are people who aren’t serious about it (Because gear being the defining factor that makes or breaks your character is a joke in any serious enviroment).

I can’t believe people are still willing to put up the lie in spite of me clearly outlining that it was the drastic class redesign that made people unsatisfied. Then again there are still those few dishonest chums who want to blame templated stats.

Ah, so ratings don’t exist, neither does Open World PvP, or the progression of you yourself being able to do better with your character. That’s weird. Meanwhile I enjoyed the PvP during that time because I had a fighting chance on my characters, without getting one-shot by someone who also did Mythic raiding in his spare time. That happened in the open world, a place that I tolerated.

That is typically how it is in PvP games, or at least in any serious PvP game that exists. Something tells me you are someone who’d never play any other game because you don’t get a bunch of points that then make you upgrade your account to be far superior.

Good, then you can stay in War Mode and do PvP there, while all proper PvP players will do instanced PvP.

I’m curious what’s your take on wod gear scaling compared to templates?

For the record I and every1 on my friends list stopped playing in legion caus templates dictated secondary stats allocation.
Butchered the playstyle of alot of classes, i mean aff lock with sub 8% haste abd no way to increase it, noty

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I can’t say much about WoD, as I didn’t do PvP at the time… Actually haven’t played a good quarter of that expansion’s life cycle actually…

Though I did do raiding durring the summer, and anytime I jumped in to the PvP I still faced the similar issue I have with Shadowlands; Anyone who played PvP the longest was an indestructible killing machine, while I was incapable of even killing healers, let alone deal any damage to them on my Rogue at the time.

Okay. This is a bit more of a legitimate reason to have an issue with the templated stats. However I still don’t see it as the “Thing that killed PvP”. If anything, it could have been easily fixed by allowing people to choose their stat allocation rather than get rid of it completely because one or two players complained about hating its guts.

I just feel alienated from wanting to do PvP since I am experiencing the same thing I experienced countless times: Being useless because I don’t have the bestest gear ever, while everyone else does.

I get you I honestly do and in another thread have been arguing for gear scaling in rated pvp settings.

I cannot comment on why pvp died in legion, only why I and my immediate friends left the game, where the oddly allocated secondary stats left a lot disheartened with the class they mained for your years and now could not enjoy the playstyle they wanted to.

Wod scaled gear up or down depending on certain ilvl brackets so pve gear and ilvl inflation was kept relatively in check but still offered progression and control over secondary stats

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Templates will always suck. I prefer to choose my own stats.

No i dont play any other games indeed. I prefer to play this game because I enjoy how it is. Problem?

Pvp died of templates. Stop thinking it didnt. You are wrong. People cba’d when they couldnt choose their stats.

You talk about proper, but proper players can gear up within 1 or 2 weeks in this simple expansion. You however, can’t? Pvp gear and pvp vendors will stay in this game and you arent gonna change it :slight_smile: