LFR devalues raids

Community General Discussion
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Opinion:

The plight of LFR allowing everyone to tour-mode through raids has bred a pretty overwhelming rush mentality of ultra high expectations.

Do away with LFR, you increase the value and allure of raids through curious mysticism and the want for the good gear and mogs. As a side effect you boost community efforts in-game. In-Game being the key element here. Everyone uses third party programs for real communication but with people relying on guilds, pug guilds and local community you boost the reliance for community.

Yes, I get the solo aspect completely but even as mostly a solo player I myself, not even others I know actually expect to be able to acquire top-tier stats without partaking in content meant for large communities that rely on good communication.

These are key life skills that a lot of gamers don’t get out in the real world during their budding years and even less so the past year. WoW taught me strong communication skills and how other people are very different and still very cool back when I was a naïve 14 year old with no real friends and a hellish school life.

Do away with LFR, you help do away with ultra high expectations from the playerbase. I’m mostly referring to people expecting good loot drops every boss. Easy fights so they don’t have to concentrate. Other people to carry them quickly so they can glide through the story, not paying attention anyway all because they want the loot.

There’s so much more you could do with the open world outside of raiding to supplement the lack of LFR such as having rare elites that have a small chance to drop something really good like a trinket with interesting mechanics like letting you instant cast everything for 3 seconds on a 5min CD. But make that loot drop random on any NPC with a low chance so hundreds of players aren’t just spawn camping it for hours. Have it like time-lost. Random spawn location, long times, triggered by the deaths of other rare spawns.

That’s just an example anyway. There’s tonnes more that could be happening for the end-game era outside of raids.

Make raids valuable once again, cut out the difficulty levels and just have a scaling thing depending on the number of players so everyone deals with the same difficulty level. 10-man raid? still tough but smaller health pools and less loot. 40-man? chances of elite stuff, harder because bigger health pools but same mechanics. Atleast in this regard, everyone who does the raid also gets to see the bonus mythic story elements and mechanics.

There’s really no need for LFR or difficulty levels, you’re just creating way more work for yourselves.

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What are you talking about? LFR loot is incredibly weak. It’s basically only a transmog, or MAYBE somewhat useful for gearing up alts.

Even your covenant gear that you get for free for doing the easiest types of quests (where all you have to do is follow the npc who will kill the enemy mobs even if you do absolutely nothing) is 10 item levels higher than LFR loot.

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People who do LFR only are not raiders, and you don’t want to raid with them.

If there was no LFR these people would probably never enter a raid.

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I believe ghostcrawler said the one thing he regrets was adding LFR so make of that what you will.

it certainly devalues the raid experience though i think having 4 different difficulties is even worse.

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There are some story quests that one must complete by doing a raid. Therefore, LFRF serves this purpose for people who want to complete such quests or simply complete an achievement and/or certain mogs.

Even with a guild it can be hard to find 5 people to do a dungeon, imagine how hard it would be to find 20 to 25 people to do a raid with you? So LFR serves this purpose.

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It is what it is , its just something to tour around the game content . like they claimed when they implemented it , saying it was for everyone to see the content they put so much work and time in and only few percentage of the player base would see it.

I normally run it many times a week on my alts and even on my main , for satchels/runes normally i end the week with like 20/25 runes that i spend later on hc , and to try diferent talent comps , to heal it with my guildies on HC mode…

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Yea I know. It had its uses in Legion with the gear perks to supplement some loss elsewhere but this is besides the point I’m getting it. It’s not about the gear being weak it’s about it being pointless overall. It doesn’t need to be in the game and has only ever had a net negative effect on average compared to the positives of people like myself who enjoyed the story and lead some early bossfights and got recruited in a higher level raiding guild after that. The majority just causes this expectation of gear now, rush, if a group wipes then everyone get’s mad and insults the rest of the raid.

I’m not saying this doesn’t happen at higher levels at all, but why create the gateway of unrealistic expectations of not needing to communicate or listen, and expect your gear to drop the majority of the time when you can have a single raid difficulty with a bit of scaling to offset the number of players so everyone can see the entire raid for what it should be that includes all the mythic story and mechanics?

I’m not saying this is the correct solution or anything, I believe it’s on the right path though. LFR and LFG has played a significant role in teaching players they can just have it all, rarely die or pay attention to mechanics and do everything.

They know they’re missing out on the higher raids but they go in expecting it to be like LFR and give people hell if they can’t progress because they want the stuff. This has got to be one of the main reasons tanks immediately leave if someone isn’t in full hairloom gear during leveling. Or when you pug a group for anything, the bar is set incredibly high for finding a group due to raider io showing stats and the game making it kind of easy to get the ilvl so people expect to recruit only high ilvl players.

It’s kind of a viscious cycle of high expectations and rush mentality.

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The solution to that would be to remove the raid quests, not to live lfr some weak meaningless “purpose”

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I believe it would be much easier if LFR wasn’t there to give everyone the easy way out. There would be much, much more people asking in guild chat and public chat for groups so it’d be quite easy actually. I’m surprised even in classic right now, how easy it is to find groups for dungeons and other quests. I just ask, or I get a wisper.

Imagine not having to run lfr to farm this stuff in the first place, so you can use all those hours to do something not incredibly boring and soul sucking lol there really doesn’t have to be this option, and the runes are only there to make things a little easier. The devs can just offset health pools, or weaken enemies to make things easier rather than rely on runes. But say runes could be a profession thing instead. JC for intellect runes, BS for stamina runes etc… you know?

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I don’t necessarily agree. Look at dungeons, they have like 18+ diffculty levels. Now, I’d say having both Heroic and regular Mythic is a little redundant, as Heroic used to be the max level version of dungeons, but now normal scales up to max level as well, but that"s beside the point. Other than this, dungeons work well, and people GET that you can’t faceroll a mythic+ the same way you do a normal or heroic.

I don’t think LFR harms anyone, and at least it provides some very hilarious moments, like the caps lock screaming in the chat at the boss in Ny’alotha where each player sees a different illusion.

Also, I don’t think people would be less toxic and gatekeepy if everyone had to pug group up for normal raids. And WoW Classic is a proof of that.

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I still believe that the sweet spot in wow’s raiding history was ulduar
10 and 25 man with bosses that had optional hardmode mechanics that ended up giving better loot

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That’s fine you can disagree lol I’ve had my moments in LFR too, I’m just saying there’s a lot of redundancy as you said that can be done away with.

I completely agree actually, I wasn’t there for it but I understand the mechanics and opportunities and watching the videos from back then made it look like the peak of raiding. This is the time everyone was telling me to come back to wow. Even cranius released a song call Ulduar that was actually really good.

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It’s nice to have a civil disagreement on this forum for once :smiley:
I’ll still defend LFR and especially the way it can be done in 3/4-boss segments. During BFA when I had my first baby I only raided in LFR which was fine… still more engaging story content than the war campaign was.

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please dont , every satchel gives me 1k gold , dont mind farming them and its fast tbh…
also i think with inscription you can make those (but correct me if im wrong before i waste time lvl the profession loool) , just started lvl that proff this week with that solo purpose …
I personally dont mind farming for consumables , got all professions directed just for that food/flask/rune/oil all free :slight_smile:

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Oh look a remove LFR a thread we have not had weekly since cata to make the top 1% feel event better about themselfs.

Far bigger issues to sort out rather then blame LFR talk about grasping at straws.

Plus as they said years ago if they remove LFR they can not justify spending so much time and money on raids so we would get less of them .

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Aye that’s great I’m not saying people can’t enjoy it. I think I’m talking about missed opportunities for the world outside of raiding and the fuel of high expectation and negativity that LFR and LFG has directly fed.

I know full well that people who haven’t even played WoW can still join the game with these high expectations of instant gratification and easy loot, especially if they’re from the CoD community or some free to play mmo hosted by korea or china. They’re notoriously grindy but the bosses are notoriously easy and spammy with lots of free stuff to keep ppl playing.

I believe for the WoW community and the future community, they could look at refining this game down to just 1 raid difficulty that scales or something like Ulduar. This will just cause people to use guilds more for groups. They’d become pretty necessary to have again and also the public chat, won’t just be used for spamming grossly inflated items in trade anymore. People will still be able to find groups, do dungeons and raids quite accessibly so I’d say. People can still play the game solo without being drones through endless lfg and lfr for loot or some other kind of thing like grinding items.

This has nothing to do with the top 1% of anything. I’m entering into game dev and I think about game mechanics quite a lot, and community. I know for sure that LFG/ LFR has hard more of a negative impact compared to the lesser positive moments people have had. Kuiu uses LFR to farm. If runes were in other places like random drops from somewhere or crafted and you need to farm the regents then farming casually for a few hours would still net the gold and perhaps be a bit more interesting than spamming LFR bosses while watching youtube on the other monitor lol

Ofcourse they can justify it. Raids are one of the end content areas of the game. Without LFR the raids will absolutely become more intriguing to everyone because they want to see it but they’ll have to do a few things first before they get to join a group for one such as having some decent enough gear in the first place for it. By mid-patch most players will definitely see the raid, and the bottom end of players who still can’t play the game very well will atleast get to chip away at the bosses each week as they progress and learn from the guilds who have already done it all. Everyone will get to see the raids if they want to.

I’m talking 1 difficulty level, scaling to match raid sizes and more content outside the raids for aid other areas of the game that could really use it.

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This is due to the community not due to tools such as LFR/LFD finder. On my horde alt, I do mythics via the group finder and no one talks, no one really communicates, no one says hello or nothing. The only time someone says something is if the group wipes or if someone has an issue with the healer and/or tank.

Removing these items does not mean that people will communicate. As for removing mythics and heroics from the game, you would have the top 1% crying foul as they are in top guilds that do the race to world first.

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Runes do not drop in LFR they come from mission table or signing up for dungeons or raids .

LFR got me into raiding im now 2/10 mythic on my main having cleared normal and heroic before .

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That is because they already expect you to know what you’re doing because they’ve learned the behaviour from both being competent at the game and doing all the lower levels first.

This still isn’t a good point. You got into raiding because you didn’t have a choice because you want the stuff. You’d still be into raiding without LFR.

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More like you think LFR has had a negative impact. I’d say it’s had the opposite effect and gotten far more people into raiding than before.

I’d also argue far more people do LFR compared to organized raiding and the system should be expanded/improved upon instead of be removed.

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