Lor'themar should not lead the Sin'dorei

It’s true. You can share your theories. And I can debunk them :kissing_heart:

Thunder Bluff is also clearly set up to be a red herring. Sylvanas has nothing left to attack it, and if she did the smurfs could just attack Orgrimmar from the north.

Basically your worst nightmare. Nathanos throwing his lot in with Baine and pals D :

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Smart move. It’s better to leave the ship early instead of sinking with it.


Not really since there is still enough loyalists around. TB is a red herring but blizzard won’t recycle a raid that was already lost in popularity. The rebels have like 6 people plus the other Tauren. That’s not enough to take orgrimmar.

Not enough loyalists to hold literally any outpost in the world, it seems. But don’t worry, this is all part of her 1000 iq Shadowlands plan.

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We do not know if the other races really stand with their leaders. But so far, Goblins, mag’har and undead all support Sylvanas.

I am sure that the ragtag group of hobos who came from Draenor will be of great use to Sylvanas.

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Gallywix plays for the winning team. Whatever it may be. But even he has contemplatively remarked on his responsibility for the war.

(This dialogue)

Trade Prince Gallywix says: Y’know, every now and then I think, should I have really told Sylvanas about this whole Azerite thing?
Trade Prince Gallywix says: If ya really think about it, if no one ever found out about the stuff, maybe we never woulda started this whole war.
Trade Prince Gallywix says: Coulda avoided burnin’ down that tree, might still have the undead city… it really makes ya think, don’t it?
Trade Prince Gallywix says: … HAH! I’m just kiddin’! Of course I don’t care about that stuff, I’m flyin’ a freakin’ mech that shoots lasers made outta the planet’s blood!

He brushes it off as a joke, but it is still him that brings it up. One can see that as nothing. Or as a sign of doubt from someone who keeps his own council. And that was before Baine and the others started defecting.
And since one of your arguments was that the leader’s opinion doesn’t have to reflect the population’s… well, that goes here as well. Goblins aren’t really known to take oaths too seriously, and not everyone will bet on Sylvanas’ victory, if it isn’t certain. Apart from that there are goblins like Gazlowe who do take moral considerations seriously.

Mag’har are a few refugees whose motivations haven’t been really looked at, yet. Their leader did support wheeding out traitors. But that doesn’t really mean that she understands the situation at all and would stand with zombies of all people, who she only just met, against the rest of the Horde that saved them. I don’t remember Sylvanas pulling them out personally. Eitrigg’s position on Sylvanas might be relevant here, but I guess there is only room for 2 orcish relics in the spotlight this addon.

And even the Forsaken have shown signs of discontent in BtS. And that was before Sylvanas essentially executed dissenters and plagued their home. There are obviously Forsaken troops that stand with her, but I think it would be premature to say that all undead support Sylvanas.

So yeah… the situation of those races isn’t any more written in stone than that of the other races. They can and will go however they like. If there is to be a big fight against Sylvanas, she will have loads of troops loyal to her. If there is meant to be a bloodless coup there won’t be many who will defend her in the end. If she leaves the Horde on her own terms they’ll leave it ambiguous.


You just answered your own question.

And your reading comprehension still hasn’t reached above grade school level, I fear…

But to take it seriously: The writers put that monologue in. They made it unprompted by you or other NPCs. They clearly demonstrated that Gallywix has been thinking about the morality of the situation. Why? Because they wanted to show that Gallywix is perfectly cognisent of his moral responsibilities, but is deliberately ignoring them, making him willfully evil? Sounds a bit strange to me. He makes the argument against his position, and leaves it standing unopposed.

On the other hand, if it was used to highlight that he isn’t happy with his own role, the monologue would make a lot of sense to me.

I don’t claim to know which of these options it is, but I do think it’s quite stupid to be fully certain that it’s just a joke.


Gallywix is supposed to be like that. Which is why they build up Gazlowe as his actual morality leaning counter part.

He is supposed to bring moral questions up? That’s actually news to me.

I didnt actually say that, i was quoting Jabjan.

Why thank you, I do try. I mean you know that is the quintessential nature of British humour, yes? Self Deprecation. We’re very good at it. Making yourself the backhanded butt of the joke is a way to ensure that you never really get riled about anything people say. A top tip a lot of folks on the Internet could take as a good course of action.

I assume by that you mean that Gallywix represents the more repellent aspects of Goblins, unashamedly so, whereas Gazlowe actually seems like a fairly decent chap, or tries to give across that image?

I mean I thought Gallywix’s main point was that he is (almost) completely amoral. He only cares for one person in the world apart from himself, and she hates him. He’s really not the best character to reflect morality issues, given that he pretty much has no morality of his own…

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Sylvanas? Forsaken forces still help guarding Ghostlands.

Do they lorewise? I thought it was just TBC/ WotLK period.

It’s kind of sad to see the guy who has been depicted as quite the skeptic to jump in the Alliance bandwagon driven by Jaina Proudmoore.

Imagine still being in need of additional forces in the Ghostlands after the PC cleaned out Deatholme in the zone questline over 10 years ago.

I dunno how much control Golden has over her stories but she’s twice now been involved with books and novellas that depict the Ghostlands as the same Scourge infested hellhole as it was over a decade ago with no sign of improvement. The Windrunner family estate was cleared out twice for goodness sake and again in the Belf heritage quest. It’s disappointing since their written work gives them a chance to explore the different zones after taking new lore and old quests into account.

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