I have a huge problem with not timing a key. I don’t understand why it must downgrade. I don’t like it. I already receive lower ilvl loot for not timing it. Why not just make the key change to another dungeon when I fail the timer but let me keep the current level.
There is already NPC which allows me to downgrade the key.
There are plenty incentives for pushing the key.Like key master or the portals at level 20. I really don’t enjoy the downgrading of a not timed dungeon. I find gw2’s fractal system to be better made.
I dunno, I find the high of victory tastes a bit better after feeling the lows of defeat.
Not lowering the key seems like there’s no consequences for failing, and no I don’t see the minor loot difference as a meaningful consequence.
I think dungeons are way too long tho. If dungeons were 25 to 30 min long it would be less galling than these 39 min dungeons.
I currently got mixed feelings about downgrading keys. I have been for the great push-event on the tournament realm and we had stupid amounts of fun there with unlimited keys of every level available. Including just go in for 2 hours in the same key and try different things (and never finishing the key).
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Do you want more toxicity in pug keys? Because the key not downgrading would ensure that.
With the key not downgrading, if it goes sideways, people would just call it quits and never finish the dungeon. They’d just try the new key at the same level in a different group. That’s a huge waste of everybody’s time.
Currently, there’s an incentive to finish: it still counts towards the vault, and you can’t retry at the same level at no cost. If there is no cost at retrying at the same level, there’s no point in finishing an untimed key.
On top of that, the key rerolling to a different key when untimed would make it easy to fish for easy keys: have a bad key you don’t want to do? Go in, start it, go out, reset. Boom, you have a different key at the same level! Repeat until you have the easiest dungeon, and then blast that. Then repeat this until you have an easy key again.
No, thanks.
Now lets discuss your 1st problem which is people leaving dungeons. Well sorry to break your bubble but that is already happening left and right. I don’t see how this is a new problem.
Also i don’t see anywhere in my post saying anything about making changes to loot acquisition. It will be exactly the same as before. Well will be nice if there is some fail safe mechanism but that is a totally different topick which i don’t want to touch and doesn’t interest me right now.
Just because I haven’t given any ideas about how to fix key rerolling you think there couldn’t be any? Let me start with something easy. I bet there are more out there.
To fix entering and leaving is simple. If you exit a dungeon under 15 minutes you get a 1 hour debuff which won’t let you start a new M+. This is already working perfectly in LFG with its 30min debuff.
This is hurting more than it fixes. We are key pushing and a lot of first pulls are a make or break of the key. When it fails we just walk out and try another key (or the same key but 1 level lower).
Another way i can think of is if anyone leaves at any time the key won’t change to another dungeon. And will stay the same dungeon and same level. No other penalty.
Only on completion timed or not the key will change dungeons.
Indeed, it isn’t. But the key not depleting would make it even worse. Currently, if you wipe on the first pull, you can - and the pug usually will - recover. If the key doesn’t deplete? Leave and restart to have a perfect run.
No, thanks.
Nor did I.
It’s not, and I’ll show you why:
So if I do a key with my team, we screw up the first boss of a ToP+23 royally, to the point where the key is not timeable, we can’t go out and do it in a +22? We’d have to do other keys for an hour straight? No, thanks.
Any other similar “fix” would have unwanted side effects, too. But the first problem of even more toxicity is already a problem big enough to make the idea undesirable.
This isn’t an automatically assembled group, though. You have full control over who you invite, and how you do the key. The safety measures are unnecessary, and will only hurt people who play together as a team.
Might as well remove the timer if the key doesn’t downgrade. What’s the point? There must be a considerable negative consequence for failing the timer. It’s called pushing a key, not brute forcing it. And sometimes there is pushback, which is exactly what makes it fun. It’d be the most boring content ever if you always knew “hey, it’s no biggie if we fail, just go again until we get it”.
And if you personally don’t find that part of doing m+ fun, I’d recommend looking at something more casual with no real stakes in it. Maybe adrenaline isn’t for everyone.
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I do alot of keys the only people I see leaving are egocentric people actually, I never had a problem that someone just leave tbh also this week especially you really can see how many people know their class well. Necrotic for example. its an easy affix not in all dungeons but the most of them are ok is, just like spiteful freaking easy stun them root them and tadaa problem solved. Don’t waste time to kill them. Or you are in SD and then it’s annoying.
Don’t think too much about m+. It’s a rush rush content and the main reason for blizzard to introduce time gating. People burn out to gear up faster then ever making HC raids obsolete and wondering why the devs are forced to install certain gating mechanics.
Failing a key should not lower the key. The main problem are raiderio douches leaving because of their ego.
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Spiteful is amazing in SD. You can use them to extend the lantern buff!
Now, in Mists or ToP, where you can’t progress until shades are dead, that’s a lot more annoying.
Because you didn’t see it happening doesn’t mean it is not happening. Yesterday i was in a Mots lvl 20 key. I specifically said before we started we are skipping to the 1st lieutenant. When i do a level 20 i expect people to know what they are doing.
1st mage pulled an observer because he went directly into it and was seen. 2nd a shaman pulled the trash which is normally CCed because he didn’t wait for me to pull. Well guess what happened? After 2 deaths in 20 secs one member left the group. And i perfectly understand him.
How can people get to such high keys without knowing the dungeon i have no idea.
I have actually no idea how to skip to the 1st lieutenant either 
It is the 1st thing you pull, without having to deal with a pack? And i have timed mists +22 on the tournament realm 
All those things are really group depended, i suppose. We have a warlock in our group and we usually invis into a corner and gateway through a wall into the pack next to the mushroom-area.
It’s actually quite easy: follow the rogue who’s shrouding, or if there’s no rogue, follow the tank. It’s that simple. Even if you never skipped it before, you do not walk directly into a mob. Not even with invis, when it has a big pulsing eye over its head, signalling that it has true sight. And you don’t walk through mobs with stealth, because stealth is not invisibility.
The reason you skip the first few packs by the way, directly to the lieutenant is that they’re tough packs, take a long time, and eat CDs. It’s easier to get that count elsewhere, especially if you can pull through the mists in the maze part. On necrotic week, the first two packs, the patrol and the pack with the big tree, they tend to stack up necrotic stacks fast, and there’s little room, and not many opportunities to drop the stacks. So not having to deal with that makes life easier.
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I mean; we invis from the start into a corner where we gateway through the wall into the pack at the mushroom-room. It is not that we pull something before the lieutanant. But i don’t think i make it with an invis potion all the way to it. And i don’t think you can pull him without doing one of the packs where he is ‘in between’?
You invis until you get round the corner to the pack that groups always skip (either by ccing the nearest mob, invis or using lock portal) and then carry on as normal. It’s pretty easy once you figure out the line to take.
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Xa! i just did 2 keys. And both failed the timer. And the group disbanded at the last boss after one wipe. We were only 4 mins behind with one of the groups and 30secs with the other. So how can this become more toxic? I doubt it can become worse than it already is.
I mean the key atleast won’t downgrade if anything. Waste of time? Yes i just wasted hour and a half!
I think people will have more incentive to stick with the group if the timer fails because they will be able to do the same level and dungeon again. This time maybe playing smarter lol.
They didn’t leave the key because a key 4 of them don’t own was going to downgrade did they?
Your example isn’t relevant to what your suggestions are.
I can’t say what is the reason for them leaving. What you and i can do is only speculate. What is a fact is them leaving and downgrading the key. That is undeniable.
With my suggestion that hour and a half will not be atleast a total loss because the level of the keys will stay the same and the persone who started it can re-do it.