last boss PF+21 we wiped and cause we had 1m left one guy says gg and leaves cause he probably wont get raiderio better score so he doesn’t allow the others get a better io score neither.
I whisper him swearing and cursing on him because that’s what I gonna be doing every time someone leaves my keys like that and I don’t care if they report me or blizzs bans me cause this is Blizzard problem, to not have a system which says X person leaves keys or something like that we can see before inviting this kind of people.
So before creating a key specifically I will say we finish it even though is depleted and when people leave like this anyways, this is how Im gonna take my justice. I will act like this.
Pugging high keys is always a risk. You simply do not know these people and their attitudes.
You’re just as bad as the guy you complained about. You should try and get a permanent team and abandon the pug life. It’s turning you into a bad person.
well, as I understand the only reason people join 15+ is raider io score so it’s like finding out halfway during the dungeon that you won’t get loot even if you finish it. no reason to stick around. dirty behavior sure, but as always: don’t hate the player, hate the game
I can get that you would leave if you realise you are getting nothing out of it about halfway into the dungeon, but quitting when you are at the very last boss is honestly just vile. What would it cost you to spend these few more minutes there, if you already cleared the majority of the dungeon and your teammates might still be getting something out of it?
first of all, the game’s structure and environment determines how toxic people will be. a high difficulty, timed run with strangers is prone to be toxic.
second, choosing to run 15+ for rio score is like a separate game invented by the players where nobody cares about loot and therefore finishing the dungeon once they realize their score won’t go up.
it’s just cold hard logic. why would you stick around in a match if you have nothing to gain?
If I’ve already committed 30+ minutes of my life to a key that we would have timed if not for a wipe on the last boss, the group is obviously good enough to kill the boss, so it will likely go down on the second pull. It costs me nothing to stay a few more minutes to complete it. And I would do this even if the key owner had listed the run as ‘in time’.
If there were problems earlier on in the run, and it was clear before the timer was halfway done that an ‘in time’ run wasn’t going to be in time, I’d point out that it isn’t going to happen and wait for a response from the key owner. Nine times out of 10, if you do that, the reply will be something like, “Yeah, I know,” or, “Do you guys want to finish it for the vault?” And it ends amicably without anyone being branded ‘leaver’.
If it’s listed as ‘chill’ or ‘weekly’, I don’t join unless I can commit to at least twice the time. (I have an awesome screenshot that one of my group took just before the last pull of a 3 hour SD key, of the 5 of us sitting in a line, looking out at Kaal on her platform.)
People are toxic, not the game. Saying that the game ‘causes toxic behaviour’ just makes people feel justified in being toxic. We should be calling it out, not making excuses.
I mean… come on. You went there through the entire dungeon. You get to the very last boss and the final step that has to be completed before the dungeon is over. If anyone in the group cared about finishing the dungeon, then you are seriously insensitive for leaving around that point and it becomes clear you treat other players as little more than NPCs. I am not asking people to sit through hopeless hours-long runs that need to wait for CDs before every pull if they hope for completion. But you can stay for that final bossfight with them if you’ve gone that far.
Yes, but no. Sure, if it’s a low key then you can probably complete the final boss with just four people to get that finish you cared about. However, in keys that are around your push-level, especially on tyrannical, it is likely that you won’t be able to 4-man it. The numbers won’t be there, so you’ll get hardstuck. So the leaver essentially ruins the entire group’s key and ends up wasting the 30+ minutes of four people who wanted to finish it just because they couldn’t stick around for a couple more to get that final boss.
However, certain systems do breed toxicity. M+ key depletion is one of them.
That another player can not just break your run, but also undo your previous effort getting there and force you to re-run at lower level just to get another shot at the current level… there’s no way to not be salty about that when it’s some rando group.
Sure, you can run with friends and enjoy it anyway, but as a matter of principle, WoW would do well to start challenging players to do better, rather than punishing them for failure.
I’m so glad folks like you post here and actually surprisingly speak your mind without any red flags going up in your inner thoughts.
Makes it that much easier to blacklist players from keys before we even encounter you in-game. More power to you and people like you, please speak up more on these forums.
The fact that there are non-toxic ways to deal with key depletion doesn’t prove the point wrong, though.
The thing that ‘breeds toxicity’ is people making excuses for toxic behaviour.
Analyzing the context in which toxic behavior is taking place is not the same as making excuses for it. Not analyzing the context and only putting blame on the players, on the other hand, directly helps in normalizing toxic behavior.
I don’t disagree that toxic behaviour is always unacceptable.
However it is worth analysing whether the game environment and systems are antagonising players and leaving them more on-edge than they might be with better design. If systems can be changed such that less annoyances and frustrations occur, there are less flash points to use as excuses.
My personal feeling is that M+ is a particular flash point because another player can, through ignorance, ineptitude, or just bad luck, set someone else back a good 60-90 minutes of their own personal progress, forcing them to re-run a lower key to get back where they were. Arguably rated PvP is the same; another player’s actions can make you lose rating in a match you think you should have won and now you have to win two additional matches to get back on course.
The solutions would need a lot of consideration, but I do think they should be considered, rather than saying there’s nothing that can be done
Not really. WoW is pretty famous for its ‘toxic community’. You can pretty much ask anyone. And I’ve not read a single post anywhere saying: 'Yeah, and I reeeeeeally like that!" People who maintain that narrative are usually people who oppose toxic behavior strongly - not those who support it.
Frustration is key here. While there is no rational reason to not finish a key if you’ve made it to the final boss, it’s frustration that makes people rage-quit. The same frustration that makes people complain about leavers on the forums.
And when it comes to pugging M+, this frustration is part of the design. Some people can cope with that. Others can’t. Simple as that.
Almost sounds like a forced co-op version of Dark Souls you have to play with total strangers on the Internet.
