M+ Requirements

see people like you are being controlled by raider io

And how is raider io controling me exactly?
So using tools which are freely available to everyone. To make sure my key is not destroyed on the 1st pack is “mind control”?

Gee. I am sorry that I am not picking any random John, Dick and Harry for my key and “pray to God” that they at least know where is the dungeon’s entrance…

so raider io give accurate how good the players are? i did mythic + with player high mythic score and he left the group right after when the leader start the key … now the key got destroyed by high mythic score player gg

No. I never claimed raider io is absolutely fool-proof. But comparing raider io to taking absolute any random person.

Taking absolute random person = Shoting in a dark room. You have no idea where is the target…if the target is even in the room.
Using raider io = Turning on the lights. You can still miss the target. But at least you are shoting in the right direction.

So. Not using raider io = chance of getting a descent person = 1%
Using raider io = chance of getting a descent person = 50-70%

I will take my odds with raider io :slight_smile:

thats greedy and you give the new players zero chance to join high key and thats not good for the game.

That is irrelevant to the people who are joining you.
And my point.
The point is that because you have the key the person who would NOT WANT YOU because of your rio suddenly do not give a damn about your rio.

Even though his reason for not wanting you is that you are most likely not skilled enough to do the key.

M+…especialy higher keys are not charity. If he or she is indeed a new player. Then let them start with +2s. The low keys barely require any raider io score.

Don’t tell me that you expect me to take a newly dinged person who hasnt even cleared the dungeon on heroic to a +15 because its “fair to new players?”

Of course i would. When a key goes wrong, the keyholder gets a downgraded key, but it has little to no consequence on the other members.
As a keyholder you’re looking to do everything you can to make sure the key goes smoothly, but if i am joining, then all i care about is that there is someone in the group who is giving out what i want to get.

If you imagine the group finder like an auction. When you put a key up, people bid on it. More or less you can consider your RIO score as what you’re bidding. That is a nummerical representation of what i can provide. The keyholder then sells the spots to the highest bidders (though you can have bid include class viability and such, but you get the point).

So now my question is, is it ironic that i am willing bid high on something i want which is provided by a guy who is not that wealthy himself, but i would not sell to that guy when he bids low on what i am selling?

As someone said the keyholder has a priviledge. He has something i want, so i am willing to look past his lack of score, but if i had what i wanted, i would not take him as ideally i would not have him in the group, but he is locked in cause he has the key.

I really hope that you see there is nothing paradoxical or ironic about this statement.

And what exactly do you propose is to be done about that? Gear isn’t any kind of indicator anymore, besides seeing if the person has a few +10 mythic items equipped.

Players will always use some metric for inviting people to harder than trivial content in a PuG environment. It just so happens that this metric currently is done by a website that tracks M+ runs from the WoW armory instead of being done through in-person/armory inspections or a similar tool.
You’re always going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to PuG’ing and being behind those doing the harder content and you’ll continue to be as long as you blame the tools players use to filter for their runs.

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no ofc not i’am talking about when the player have like 400 ilvl and he keep getting reject every time he que because of hes io even tho he knew every mechanics in this instance

It does matter in the RIO days you get lower rio score for not completing in time.
it gives lower amount of loot so an even smaller chance for that amazing titanforge.
and you ofc lose the time you could have used to start another run in another dungeon

Actually it does not it only tracks (i think 500 now) runs before you need a higher m+ key on kazzak as i am on it means often to even get the score to count you need to do keys on Wednesday or tursday, if you do it on sunday monday or tuesday you often do need to do 14+ in any dungeon.

You got to understand the TOOL you are using when using it.
this is the problem with Rio people do not understand what it does or how it works and just assumes something.

Fairly certain it’s bound to track your best timed runs as well on any given character since armory itself displays that after it got updated a while back.

thats why i said dead game :blush:

Nope it does not at least i know for a fact it does not track it on myself.

I’d say it’s more a matter of a failed gearing design, which partly was brought along by M+ and 4 difficulties of raiding. Titanforging and an overabundance of catch-up gear at higher than normal raid quality certainly didn’t help either.

If we’re going by your current character then it seems it does. The keyword here being timed runs as non-timed ones don’t show on the armory page.

Ok. Obviously you are anti-raider io.
Then what would be your suggestion to this scenario?
I want to do my +10 key but I cant use raider io or any other tool to recruit?
So…how I can get a tank which I can be sure that he has some idea on how much to pull and what to pull?
How can I get a healer which I am sure can heal us?
How can I get a dps which I am sure that he/she knows what “interrupt” means?

So…How do I get these people if all tools of inspection are forbiden? Is there some secret vodoo ritual? By all means. Give me a viable solution and I will blacklist the raider io website right now.

P.s Talking purely in pugging aspect. Lets ignore “guilds, friends,communities” for the scenario above.

not just failed gearing design but also class design

Can’t avoid there being a most optimal line-up for a dungeon, though there still is something to be said for lacking utility toolkits in many cases.

No i am not anti-raider io
This is the problem just because i do not agree with asking for having done ALL THE DUNGEONS at the KEY LEVEL you are looking for you think i am anti the tool.

what i am disagreeing to is when people like you abuse the tool.

Talking to them and you knowing what to ask them to know.

Talk to them communication is a great way to find out stuff you know.

Again Talking to them, heck talking to them in the run can work fine.

I know this is hard in todays gogogogogogo world but you do know you can TALK to people ingame right?

But why would that ever be in my interest? Why would you expect people to gamble their keys on people who have nothing to show?
And trust me, i have seen a lot of the “i have no score, but i know all the mechanics” and they know nothing. They know like the big obvious mechanics, but they have no idea how other people actually deal with them and they easily miss key interrupts and wipe the group, or ninja pull.

Like i have coached keys and boosted keys, and their lack of experience usually shows even if they think they are good.