Make ferals good

(Deed) #42

Adding LoTP as pvp talent was a slap in the face. It needs to be baseline for all Ferals in PvE. This always was our core ability and utility.


Tick Tock where are the buffs?

(Nuvic) #44

Really disappointed there is absolutely nothing for Feral utility/dps on ptr yet while WW the spec that does not need any form of buffs is getting 20% insta-death execute.

Why was sub buffed and feral not?


Blizzards up ferals pls!!!


Fury is doing 50k dps on ptr in 3 min fight with only 2/3 essences feral is doing like 30k. Buff the spec already.

(Ridtur) #47

Feral needs more utility, QoL fixes and this extreme shoe-horning where Blizzard tries to make Feral capable of doing AoE damage (via out of place AoE bleeds) needs to end.

Feral always was a strong sustained single target bleed based melee DPS. That’s what Feral needs to go back to in order to be fun and interesting.

Suggestions for changes:

  • Savage Roar needs to have a much longer uptime (so it’s not such a chore), it also needs to either be usable on 0 CPs or be automatically applied (5 CP) upon opening from Prowl. Additionally Savage Roar damage bonus increase needs to be competitive (how is SotF, a stupid passive, BiS!?). Additionally bleeds need to snapshot of SR again (not dynamically update).
  • Shapeshifting needs to be off the GCD.
  • Ranged combo point builders need to go (Moonfire talent).
  • Infected Wound needs to be increased to 50% and moved back to Shred.
  • Combo Points need to be tied to the target again, Ferals aren’t supposed to be split dotting without effort.
  • Bloodtalons needs to be re-designed. At the very least it has to be off the GCD, but it should also be completely detached from PS (since it absolutely stifles any and all creative PS utility plays). Personally I’d just like to see it gone, but I realize that’s not everyone’s opinion.
  • Dash and Stampeding Roar need to clear roots (by default) for Feral.
  • Barkskin has to be baseline for Feral, maybe replace one Survival Insticts with it (but quite honestly we just need another defensive - because Feral is like paper).
  • Affinities need to go. We cannot just be 1/3rd of our class at a time. Feral needs Tranquility, Swiftmend (or why not Cenarion Ward), Rejuvenation, Frenzied Regeneration etc baseline.
  • Mighty Bash needs to be made baseline (replaced by Faerie Swarm) so we get some more utility.
  • Hibernate needs to be added back to PS.
  • Replace SotF talent (or Incarnation, or baseline Savage Roar and replace with this) with Force of Nature (Rake + Entangling Roots version).
  • Damage needs to be competitive. Feral damage is currently so low it’s laughable and it wouldn’t matter even if all the other things on this list were implemented. Feral still wouldnt be viable.
  • Snapshotting needs to make a real comeback (from short duration buffs, trinkets etc).
  • Sabertooth in its current form needs to go, can’t have strong bleeds which are possible to maintain forever. Just re-design it to the old target has <25% full refresh version.


I want my class to feel strong, I want to feel like if I play my character well I can outplay and outskill other players just because I am a better player than them. Either I want to win on the damage meters, perform sick wipe saves or by simply killing them in PvP even though the matchup might technically be unfavorable. All of this just because I am a better player. Currently that is not possible, mostly not for any spec. I want to change that.

Some people will read this and say “wait what this is ridiculous!? Feral would be so OP” - and yes, if you read this in a vacuum of course, they would be. However, I am also strongly advocating that other classes and specs are given more tools so that they too can shine. I am not arguing that Feral alone should be given improved mechanics, new/old abilities, QoL and/or buffs.

EDIT: Added snapshotting (short duration buffs and Savage Roar) and removal of Sabertooth to the list. Additionally added some more surrounding information.


Feral’s damage isn’t that bad as long as it’s pure ST and not much spread, they’re also doing pretty fine in m+ damage wise, it’s the utility lacking. But many of the things you wrote down here would make Ferals rididolous OP in PvP, so thank god you are not working for blizzard cus you’d ruin the class =p


Revert almost everything you done to feral in ToS, aka Bloodtalons nerf, Savage Roar nerf… Keep AoE bleedfinisher… Make Ferals about bleeds again…

(Ridtur) #50

Feral had all of the things I mentioned in MoP S15 and Feral was not OP then.

(Nuvic) #51

Thanks for the leader of the pack. Excellent change. However, it comes at a huge dps loss for the feral wearing it. Please increase the effect on the feral using it so that it is a 1-2% dps loss not a 15% or more.

It still does not help ferals in m+ or in pvp.
For pvp, RIP damage buff and ferocious bite unnerf would be very welcome. Another idea is to make ferocious wound do 10% max hp dmg not reduce max hp. Survivability is still too low.

For m+, rip damage buff would certainly be great, but we still need some form of utility other than LOTP.

To be honest haste is a bad stat for feral compared to crit/mastery, one could easily increase bleed scaling with haste. After all, they become super bad once cat form 50% haste bonus was removed.

(Sariath) #52

It is not a loss per se, it is just that other classes benefit more of it.
That being said, I like your suggestion and think would solve part of the problem.

An increase to rip damage would make ferals broken in mm+, which they already are. I don’t understand why people say they are weak in mm+, they out-do most classes in AoE, and their insta healing can be a huge help on the tank. Combat ress is also a reason to pick a feral over any other class.
Ferals are literal monsters in mm+ since the last talent revamp, and with the right azerite traits they shine bright in multi-target.

As for the suggested retuning of ferocious wound, that is probably the worst change one could think of, no offence. Not only that would make ferals broken in pvp, but it would also make them braindead. All our combo points would go to ferocious bites until the target is drained of all their hp. Please think of the desastrous consequences of a change before suggesting it, sometimes devs are right when they choose to ignore the playerbase.

Ferals are pure destruction in mm+, please stop misleading people if you’re clueless as to how to play it correctly.

ST/PvP is our Achilles heel, and no kind of azerite build can make up for that. BT is clucky and boring as hell, and it makes us loose Ashamane’s ability, thanks to BfA garbage class design, which was a nice add to our tookit. If we could get that back + an overall buff to our single target abilities (namely everything apart from swipe/thrash/rip which benefits from PW), we’d be more than fine. That would mean un-nerf Ashamane’s artifact ability if you don’t want to make it baseline, and don’t make BT the mandatory choice in ST so that people get to choose what to play with…

Overall ferals are less bad than they used to be.

EDIT : Ferals’ main issue in PvP is not just damage, it’s also durability. They are paper as hell and need something to make up for that. Bringing back barskin (I don’t know why the hell you took it away from ferals, worst change ever…) would only be a first step towards fixing that big issue.

(Nuvic) #53

It’s a big loss, possibly more than 15%. you lose a major essence.

Dude u do +11, stop being rude to others who are more achieved than you. feral dps is average: 30% or more below outlaw. Less than DH/WW, frost mage/ele, and less than fury cleave unless there are 10+ targets. big scale AOE is below DK as well. You only think feral AOE is OP because you play with incompetent players at low 10s (good ones are doing much higher).

That is literally what top ferals do. Spend all their CP on bites and maim sometimes. I’ve discussed why ferocious wound is not great in this meta before.

This is wrong. ST is our best strength.

Yes, I mentioned this.

(Sariath) #54

I do +11 because I see no need in doing any higher keys, and also because I’m currently not playing that much on my druid. That being said, if you think it takes to do +15 to be a pgm then you’re greatly mistaken, and your blabbering about ferals being bad in mm+ is plain proof of that, because they are not. Doing +15 in resto (or worse yet on another class) doesn’t make you any good in feral, so save the hollow childish speech for someone else. Thank you.

No, this is not literally what ferals do. In PvP lunar inspiration is most of the time better than sabertooth, because it provides an additional range bleed and makes up for downtimes, which are much more present in PvP. Not to mention rip and maim, ferals finishers are not only about ferocious bite, and should never be that way.

And I’m mentionning it again.

(Nuvic) #55

Just stop trolling. I don’t m+ as resto. I’ve done many 15-17s as feral. I’ve also killed Jaina mythic as feral. logs are on warcraftlogs and runs on rio. If you continue to insult others I will report you.

Feral dmg and utility is low in m+ anyone who pushes high keys would tell you and data from rio suggests so too. Period.

Ok you don’t even play this game. lmao stop trolling. Literally no one uses lunar inspiration (maybe at 1400 they do).

(Sariath) #56

Yes… and ? I’ve done +15 and more on others of my toons and happened upon many incompetent players. You don’t seem to understand my point, so I’ll reiterate it again : it proves absolutely NOTHING, and your complaining about ferals being bad in mm+ is plain proof of that, again.

That being said, I’m not insulting anyone, so I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. If, however, I happened to hurt your sensibility, then feel free to report me for all I care.

I don’t care what people tell me, I’ve heard enough bs from them, especially about ferals. Still hearing enough bs about ferals now. Rio is most probably the worst reference you could bring up, and tells a lot about your mindset, which is sadly the one in trend right now. Rio will only show that people prefer to play the easiest and most obvious meta class. Period.

Truth is some of my friends play feral and push much higher keys than I do, and they are doing just fine, if not better than most.

No one ? Have you made a poll or something ? Or did you come across one or two clueless ferals in some random bg run and decided all ferals were the same ? Since you seem to trust so much in your internet references, allow me to present you with some…

The latter suggests lunar inspiration as an option, the former flat out makes it THE mandatory one.

Thanks for proving my point, though, you do seem to be lacking knowledge on the matter.


Yes, you can easily see what top druids use and filter by rating (e.g., 2400+, 2200+). 99% of the time sabertooth is taken over lunar inspiration. Those are very bad suggestions in the guide possibly written by people who do not pvp at all. It also suggests taking BT instead of FF, and incarn instead of SOTF, but the latter is better most of the time. BT and incarn need buff but are still viable right now unlike lunar inspiration. Wowhead is better than icy veins but If you want good builds, check the druid discord.

Please create your own thread if you want to discuss beginner druid stuff. Keep this thread with suggestions from druid mains with experience so that blizzard can use the feedback.

(Nuvic) #58

I’m not going to waste time on you. Almost everything you say is wrong. Ignored and reported for trolling and insulting. Please do not pollute good threads.

(Sariath) #59

Yes. Again… and ?
Top mm+ runs show that wars are the go as tank. Does this mean all other tanks are to be dismissed as useless ? You keep further proving my point. And what was the point of posting on an alt ?

Have you run out of arguments already ? Because staying quiet would’ve made you keep whatever little credibility you had left.

For a reason. Thanks to BfA trash design and the fact that insta regrowth is almost mandatory in PvP (especially in 2vs2 with dps) there is most of the time no better option than BT, sadly.

Surely you must be kidding. Those 2 talents are the last thing that needs buff in PvP, and I’m still waiting for the reasons as to why these builds are not good. You’re basically just uttering wild claims without providing the smallest bit of evidence. If you think talking big makes you look like you know anything on the matter, you’re wrong. It doesn’t.

The only person I’m discussing these beginner matters here is you, and there’s no wondering why anymore. So allow me to serve you with your own advice.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. Another one of your advices you should listen to.


How clueless can you be. That is not even what BT does. Again shows how much of a beginner you are; you have not even read what druid talents do.

Please help me in getting this troll banned to make the community better guys. Click the report button. What a nice thread we had now noise is too high and can’t communicate our suggestions to blizzard easily.

(Sariath) #61

Tooltip from WoWhead : Casting Regrowth or Entangling Roots causes your next two melee abilities to deal 25% increased damage for their full duration.

BT + Insta regrowth all the time to keep alive (since ferals are squishy as hell and require constant healing) --> healing + damage increase --> make up for GCD downtime in the best possible way.