Mecha gnomes instead of sethrak as an allied race while horde goes with vulpera?


(Lilura) #211

Nobody asked for them because everyone simply expected them.
The only thing people asked for in Kul Tirans was a scrawny option.


(Korrina) #212

My bad, I meant to say the most unique allied race. Missed the “allied” part :blush: Their rigging and animations are unique, compared with all the other allied races that are just reskins, including vulpera.


#213

They get literal white and you want lighter???


(Korrina) #214

Which of the skin colours do you think it’s white (the number)?


They all seem different shades of purple to me.


(Daltor) #215

If there was any posts like that,they were smothered to non-extinction by the allied race Sethrak and Vulpera ones.

Ironically, when people foundout they were getting KT humans, they only wanted the skinny type which they later didn’t get.


#216

I believe skin 6 was the very white one

and to the others, nobody asked for kul tiran humans because they just assumed they were the same


#217

Yeah, whatever alliance special snowflakes demand in forums is justified. How not unique lol


#218

Blizzard did the same with Nightborne (the only new model).
Horde gets all the new toys.


#219

Add a bit more no argument, passive aggressive venom and you just might burn though the forum’s server and down into the planet’s core.
Who hurt you?

Exactly. Their rig is unique. Literally new to the entire game.
However the race itself is not. You are literally looking at humans with different body proportions. Not more and not less.
Vulpera, sethrak a bunch of other races with their copy pasted rig, hold more unique feeling in one hand than kul’tirans as a concept in their entirety.

Im not saying this to try and make blizz’s efforts count to nothing but lets be perfectly honest here for a moment: Using the kul tiran rig to introduce i.e. ogres for instance would have been a riot.
Players would have been kissing the sky for it and praising them to high heavens over it, because it would have been wanted, unique, open completely new aspects for rp, feel and the rest of the good stuff.

I mean my point here should be self-evident.
A completely ground up new race. A literally NEW RACE. Will be always more cherished than something that should have been a customization option to begin with.
I mean we can spin this any direction we want, you cant compare something like copy paste gnomes with sticks for limbs to vulpera. Im not even sure why this statement needs any form of explanation and why ppl like Lilura or Ronda are so butthurt over it.
Its a simple fact.

Would the horde side appreciate goblins with wooden legs, hook arms and eyepatches as an allied race claiming its “pirate” while the alliance gets a ground up completely new race like vulpera or sethrak?
We both… no… we ALL know FOR A FACT that there would be a backlash.
Just like there will be a backlash over mecha gnomes vs vulpera too if it comes to pass.

We can call this moaning or whatever the salt else.
It remains a simple, self-evident, easy to understand truth.
Well easy to understand for everyone other than the geniuses in blizzard’s decision making process. Im sure breathing must be taxing for them in itself.


(Lilura) #220

I mean, I’m fine with Mecha-gnomes coming. I don’t think they’re mutually exclusive to Sethrak; they fill different spots on the roster. Sethrak aren’t going to be a gnome allied race, they’re a worgen one.
It just makes more sense to introduce them at the same time as Vulpera, imho.

I mean, the Worgen and Goblin model updates are due in .2.5 already anyways, it’s the perfect opportunity to do the ARs for those races alongside.


(Brigante) #221

Preach it, I agree on that, and the standard of writing. Looking at it from a Horde point of view the Uprising against Sylvanas should have occurred right after Sylvanas burned the World Tree. So lets say it devolved into a three way barfight, Sylvanas Loyalists vs The Vastly outnumber Horde loyalists. Do you think that’s going to matter to Tyrande and Genn? Anduin might convince most of his troops to focuss on Sylvanas, but Tyrande and Genn, No, they want Horde Blood, so will be attacking both sides. Its inevitable some Alliance will have grudges to settle with some of the Horde Loyalists, Void/High Elves against the Blood Elves, any human of the right age will remember the horror when Stormwind was sacked, before it was rebuilt, so, whoops, accidents happen, and suddenly you have a Four way fight on your hands. Until it all went horribly wrong, Ashzara appears, both sides are exhausted, but have to fight her together, so that they all surpise, who when they defeat her, both sides are weakened, and realise no one has the military power to prosecute the other side(s) So a -very- Begrudging Ceasefire is called. Which is in line with Blizz saying this is the last time the Faction war is the focus, and it will end with BfA…

But hey, I’m just spitballing here

It has to descend to use its own armament, to as we see, artillery range. They should be using it more, I agree, but where its real skills are, as a ship that you can load up, have some sneaky chappies plant Beacons, and Bam! You can teleport a whole shipload of soldiery anywhere the Beacons are.

Yeah, that doesn’t make sense, unless becoming Undead utterly twists your persona 180 degrees.

Oh I get that, I mean why would Vereesa join an organisation with a Blood Elf heading it up? Why would said Blood Elf leader who thinks she is a dangerous terrorist and War Criminal execute her on the spot?

( I mean the obvious answer is that Brigante was not the Leader of the Unseen Path Canonically, but that is game mechanics taking precedence over Story, which is nothing they could really do about without have two phased Class Order Halls per Faction, with Faction specific NPC’s…)

Know what I think it is? I think it is making a bad choice, seeing what came of it (The Burning) and then being trapped with that Bad choice, because your best buddies are, everyone is. Thalyssra even says in the Baine arrest text “I don’t know whats going on here, I’m going to talk to Lor’themar, see what he thinks”. So she clearly doesn’t exist with the Burning, and nor from his Dialgue does Lor’themar, he thinks Baine jumped the gun. So whilst initially it is like, “We joined our long lost cousins who were nice to us” (Because it is clear the Shal’dorei only joined the Horde because of the Sin’dorei) but then this atrocity happens, the world reels from it, and the thinking -could- be, “Well if we leave the Horde now, The Horde, if they win, will come for us as Traitors, whereas the Alliance, if they win, because they will regard us as complicit in this, will also come for us for our perceived part in this, I suppose we have to ride this crazy train and see where it ends, we can’t make ourselves neutral again, not after -this-”

Part of me wonders if this is what Sylvanas thought, by binding the rest of the Horde to her by a shared atrocity, she leaves them no option but to go with it?

I agree its bad, but once Sylvanas burns that tree, everyone is sort of bound by necessity in case the Alliance comes for them when they turn neutral. As for the Shal’dorei, the Sin’dorei are natural Allies, and Tyrande was nice to her, Tyrande was not, and made threats, Thalyssra’s decision makes some sense. Not complete sense, but some sense.

But can it though? We never see it do so.

That ship had sailed when Jaina had failed to keep Neutrality. “This entirely powerful Magic Item, I know, I will place it with people who really distrust Magic, and are Clearly Affiliated with the Alliance. If Only I had a magical City, with a Magical Prison where it could be locked away”

Lets be fair, Jaina herself took Dalaran out of the ‘Neutral’ stakes.

Maybe for her to find out what happened and act on that, by y’know, not committing a Valid member of the Council of Six to Prison? (Remember that at that point Aethas was arguably entirely innocent, the four guards certainly were, but she kills them anyway Y’know, what any sensible ruler would have done would be to Confront Aethas and find out what the heck was going on? I mean she can clearly one shot his guards if they pose a threat? She could have convened the Council of Six, and asked him to explain the actions of a couple of Sunreavers, But nah, simpler to just walk in all ‘Pew Pew Pew’ and kill four innocent people, Stage a Coup’detat, at this stage she has declared herself Queen of Dalaran and clearly not in what anybody else thinks.

Remember The Blood Elves bar -one- person, Thaelan Songweaver were completely unaware of the Mana Bomb, in fact at Garrosh’s insistence there were actually Sin’dorei troops on the ground when that bomb went off. That’s…hardly complicity…They were -Bait-. So they knew nothing of the Mana Bomb ( In fact if you even remember, Aethas sided with jaina in the vote on the Council of Six, that Dalaran should intervene)

Come on, You, the ‘Hero’ are sent out to kill a shopkeeper, a bloke taking his money out of the bank ( So, Aggrated Mugging as well as murder then) and a third who I can’t remember, but they’re all citizens. The Silver Covenant are murdering mobs that don’t even fight back, (And remember, she set this in motion) but cower as they are hacked down. Jaina sees all this as she swans on by and does -nothing- to intervene.She is complicit in the murder of civilians wholesale. nd you see that when playing the Alliance side of the Purge. There are a Unit of Stormwind troops there. They too watch impassively as civilians are murdered. There is a Silver Covenant Mage, force choking a Sunreaver Civilian over that shark in the sewers, Segacedi I think. The instant he sees you, he drops the civilian into the sharks mouth. I mean he drops them into the Sharks mouth, I mean he’s already torturing t he guy, how much more villain do you want? For him to tie a screaming Sunreaver to a set of traintracks? (Fun fact, this -never- happened in the Silent movies, except in later parodies, it was in fact the male hero tied to the tracks, and the female love interest had to save him in time)
A lot of the things Jaina and the Silver Covenant did that day are later described as ‘War Crimes’ when Garrosh is on trial in the novel of the same name. So…yeah, I kind of would class them as War Crimes.

That’s kind of what I am saying though, post Burning, there is nothing the Horde can do, but reap the whirlwind, I agree, it is horribly Machiavellian of Sylvanas, but she has bonded the Horde, by common fear of what the Alliance will do if they try to go it alone…

I completely agree. That would have been the time for an uprising, but it isn’t that simple. The Horde leaders as shocked when Baine is arrested, heck, Lor’themar even says something like Baine may have doing the right thing, but he should have had more concern for his people, the time to act was not now.

Pretty much every racial leader says the same thing. She’s went too far, she needs to be stopped, but this is too early, we need to plan it.


#222

Not really. You are pretty much on point.
One of the very first key issues bfa had in terms of story was the horde’s reaction to the burning of teldrassil, and even following up to that point. The reaction was simply removed.
Its not just hard to understand, it goes beyond that.
It changes the horde, which always had internal politics, a council, AN IDENTITY… the horde which stood tall and proud, and fought for its own values during the civil war with garrosh, to… i dont even know… a confused emo teen?

I mean the cinematic with the old soldier was the very peak of this, with the “we got to follow cause the horde is the only thing we got left”.
What? Why? How? What am i even watching here?
When did the horde become the only thing you got left?
You got no pride left in you as a darkspeak? As an orc? There is literally nothing left for you but the horde just a couple of years after you burned the horde down because of garrosh?

Its just bad writing 101 that retroactively destroyed what the horde is and how it functioned.
All identity the horde and horde races had were removed for the sake of this Sylvanas narrative, because Sylvanas might have a lot of fanboys on the forums, but inside wow, she has but a handful of supporters. The entire thing would have been escalated right there on darkshore after the burning of teldrassil, had they not crippled the horde’s soul and spirit.

Oh and i might add here that this entire problem could have been avoided by actually making sylvanas morally gray.
Dont know who it was, maybe bellular on youtube who was musing things back during the start of bfa that the night elves could have been made to stockpile azerite and supply the alliance with it.

Such a simple concept really, yet it would have changed everything down to the core.
Sylvanas would have had an actual reason and even the physical notion of burning the tree by ignited azerite. Itwould have made a bit more sense compared to the retarded notion of wooden catapults setting a live tree on fire in the middle of the ocean at several island’s range…

Just… yeah…
Isnt it tiresome to watch after a while?
That players have to come up with ways how everything could have made more sense?
That there was not one single entity in a multi billion dollar company who would have pointed these things out?
Cause it sure is damn tiresome to me.
What are you being paid for if you cant do this much? If you cant even put up a narrative that makes sense?

BfA storywise is going into a 5 star restaurant, ordering something and getting served a piece of bread with margarine on it.
Its just baffling. You are not even mad cause its so far removed from the realm of possibility that you are just sitting there wondering where YOU yourself made the error and/or wrong assumption or if this is a joke of sorts.

Yeah, not the point really… beacons or otherwise its still a ship that could assassinate half the horde leadership or any naval vessels or or or or or…
That thing should not exist by now just like so many bad story elements…

Hey that reminds me. Do we finally know what the ever living **** Sargeras was doing around azeroth in a cloud after having spent A LITERAL DECADE OF STORY TELLING establishing how and why he could never get there? Hell, two decades if you count the original rts warcraft series.
Still makes me chuckle.
We want to make some sort of epic scene
boop
We just undid a decade of story for the sake of it
Dont ask why, we dont speak about such things.

Well this at least makes sense… i wish it would be articulated.

Okay.
In regards of the entire Jaina thing, let me rephrase…
No, its not like she is a pure white sheet of paper either, but i wish that bfa’s story had been fleshed out just half as much as the cleansing of dalaran?
I mean all sorts of morally questionable, yes, but how much more fleshed out was that story? What level of complexity was that compared to bfa?

Take the character of Jaina and walk it through to that point in time, after all that happened, down to the bombing of theramore, being borderline insane with grief, she warns them and in the end she not only gets it thrown back in her face, even after she walks up to Aethas calling him out on what he did, he still wont back down and simply states that this is their city too.
And it snaps
You can literally hear the snap as all sense and morality she had just breaks away.
Oh okay fine then. Removal by force it is.

Compare that to Sylvanas and the burning of teldrassil.
You can have any amount of disdain or disgust towards jaina’s actions but there is one thing you will not need: The story explained to you.
Cause it makes sense.
Not only that. It forces an emotional reaction out of you regardless whether its the just rage of those who have been wronged, or that of the person who always had good intentions but is made to snap.

Its a level of story telling that cant even be mentioned on one page with bfa’s bs and plot hole artistry with the war of sylvanas which came down to

  • Slyvanas: I dont think peace will last so ima start a war by invading teldrassil
  • The horde council of racial leaders: we dont exist, dont look at us
  • Slyvanas: nvm actually now that we defeated its guards, just torch it, i feel morally gray
  • The collective population and all races of the horde: we dont exist, dont look at us
  • Sum single lone orc in the background called saurfang: That was not cool
  • Slyvanas: Okay kids, they are targeting my city. Stand in line. Good. gasses everyone then blows up the city ~teehee
  • Fappy boy on the sideways: Ze horde iz ze only thing we got left, we muz follo mon.
  • Comedy Baine: shakes head and walks off screen … then does it 3 more times.

I think this expansion would have been great as a caricature of wow…
Makes me think of the irony how wow survived a hundred different supposed wow killer mmo releases from other companies and is now slowly dieing due to its own devs.

Which just adds even more color to the story as i pointed it out.
There are those who can literally make the argument that they are a victim too, and in the overarching picture it will come out as a mass of bad decisions leading to a tragedy or well… several tragedies.

What is bfa’s story telling compared to this single scene?

Well… i just feel that we are walking circles about something that is dung, no matter from which side or angle we are looking at it.

I mean here i could point out that this is yet another misplaced aspect of the story… the suggestion that everyone had to wait with their actions cause going up against sylvanas is suicide, so we need time to build forces and catch the right moment to…
really…?
I mean if this was Garrosh’s horde, it would make sense.
But its not.
We are talking about sylvanas here.
What is this overwhelming support the horde needs to be so aware of?
A quarter of the leaders want her outright removed. The pretty much ENTIRETY OF THE REST agrees that she is incapable of leading the horde and/or is taking it down the wrong path.

So really. Remind me. Why all this cloak and dagger comedy?
She has a handful of supporters.
Hell she is standing in the open pretty damn much alone alongside Cuckthanos and i donno… the magthar orcs and the vampire elves?
Hell even her own people the god damn forsaken are now dead silent (no pun intended) about her after she massacred her own people for the sake of some joke along the lines of “they cant have hope”.

Do you know what the horde looks like around that bonfire when Baine is taken away?
Yet again like a bunch of emo children who are too afraid to talk back to mom.
Not more and not less.
They all agree with eachother. THEY ARE BASICALLY THE ENTIRETY OF THE HORDE. RIGHT THERE. But we need time and the right moment and this and that and what not…

I give up
I just give up
This is wow in 2019 produced by a multi billion dollar company that forgot how basic math works.
Here’s one to… how did you put it…
“To be honest I’d be more concerned about their mental health.”

Yeah… thats the point where i personally am right now…
concerned about mental health
Cause im all out of rational explanations as to how they manage to be this bad at their jobs… or i dont even know… maybe its possible… i just dont know, nor will i know, nor will anyone know, cause nobody is saying anything, we are just expected to take this product and go with it. Keep paying them monthly too…

I just dont know at this point anymore.

EDIT:
Regardless. Thanks for the conversation.
It was nice to be able to finally talk about this even if we disagree on some things.


(Brigante) #223

I would respond further, but I prefer to dignify well thought out arguments which sadly at this time I cannot give, need to do Shiz today, got to see the DWP, and then try and send my Voice Acting work to a Client, as I’ve kept them waiting a few days, Thankfully they are a very understanding Client. (If this goes well, I get to do a whole Quartet of Novels! And so far I am apparently smashing it out of the park is what the author says, “That’s not the same as I had planned…That’s -better than I had planned” So I probably will get back to you, just definitely not in the next few hours :smile:


#224

Ofcourse m8.
Have a nice day and cheers


(Korrina) #225

Hope it goes well for you :grinning:
I like reading your comments, even if they are a bit, shall we say, verbose, sometimes :grin:


(Erevien) #226

Allied races are reskins. Not actual new races. People are delusional if they think stuff like, Vrykul, Sethrak, Arkoan. Ogres etc. are allied race material.


(Lilura) #227

And Vulpera are just a reskin?
You don’t have an argument to stand on here Erevien, please leave before you hurt yourself.


(Erevien) #228

I except Gilgoblins as goblin reskin AR.


(Lilura) #229

You really want to try and argue against the mountain of evidence saying it’s Vulpera?


(Erevien) #230

If you won’t let go of alliance Sethrak. Yes. Gilbins pls next.