Metzen's return meant nothing

Lore Story
1

We’ve been tricked, we’ve been backstabbed and we’ve been quite possibly… bamboozled!

Or at least I have been. I knew that his return might not mean a return to form but I chose to give it a chance, to wait out TWW because that expansion was already done and see what Midnight brought us.

And well, it’s brought me regret and shame. The light is just yellow void which is just purple fel. Xalathath continues being a silly cartoon villain which no clear motive. The Amani and the Blood elves kiss and make up. There’s underground cave-night-elves now who shouldn’t exist and before I even got anywhere else, the plot was already done. The void is beaten, the worst possible character to make a return, returns. We get another “I’ll get you next time, meddling kids!” moment and then all the elves forget 10000 years of infighting to sing kumbaya to create the dawnwell, ignoring that the Night Elves would NEVER willingly be a part of creating another well of anything.

I was kind of investing a lot of time levelling a character through all the old content to catch up with current story eventually - knowing that some parts were really bad - but now I see no reason to continue. The hype of the Worldsoul Saga is over. The radiant song is forgotten, they still didn’t address the sword, everybody is worshipping purple feet and beating the enemy with the power of love and friendship and I’ve also gone to google the current people in charge of this mess and learned that there is no hope for improvement so long as they remain.

Maybe Metzen was never the actual guy who wrote the good stuff. I suspect strongly that whoever wrote the good bits. Arthas, Illidan, the Scourge, the Legion, was not him. He was just the guy who wanted to redeem the orcs and turn them into humans and under whose auspicious leadership, every race is now humans. Nerubians, trolls, elves, space aliens. It’s all the same. They’re all white bread humans now.

I’m going to collect my Shadowmourne and then I’m gone.

13 Likes
2

Not even that.

It was literally as if tolerating someone’s first RP character moment. Super all powerful, we finally get to them, do a hit, and find no meaningful purchase or feeling from them. They’re just…

There. And now they’re gone.

“Ugh, i’m bored.” really? that’s all they can do? An arrow and a droll response?

6 Likes
3

I hadn’t even considered that but you’re right. That is actually the response of a novice roleplayer who is godmoding in an RP and gets beaten. Instead of some meaningful response to being foiled, it’s just “Ohyea? Well, I didn’t really care anyway so seeya, losers!”

That character is such a colossal failure. When they brought her in and told us they wanted to build up their antagonist this time, I was on board. After all, all the good antagonists we’ve had, have had a longer presence in the lore and a list of “foul deeds”.

And what did they do with it? Totally forgot that she’s supposed to be an eldritch void entity and not some sassy elf, had her whisper sweet nothings in the ears of a bunch of raidbosses, gloat and parade around while accomplishing absolutely nothing and then devolve her into a silly Saturday morning cartoon villain on the level of Skeletor.

She’s a meme in the WoW community and for all the wrong reasons. I hope they do away with her soon and bring back Sargeras or some actually intimidating and scary antagonist but as I’ve said, I’ve seen who is on the story team and I don’t believe any of them have the competence to tell a story that isn’t complete drivel.

4 Likes
4

Ok, a few points on the Metzen thing, not to be confused with a defense…

  1. They did say from the start that the addons that would become the Worldsoul saga were already in development when Metzen jumped on and tried to will some kind of saga into being.
  2. There were Metzen interviews quite early on, where he already explained (or bemoaned) that the story department had become so much more democratic, so that he couldn’t enforce his vision as he did before.
  3. He is a tech guy in California, so assuming that he didn’t change during a 10-year or so hiatus in the time period where culture over there went suicidally crazy, was always quite a stretch.

So, in essence: The signs were clear, if you were fooled, you likely fooled yourself. Understandable, since we’d probably all have liked this to turn out well, but about as grounded as astrology and tea leaf reading.

She had to suddenly log out, because she has school tomorrow and hadn’t realized it was so late. Very reltable writing here.

8 Likes
5

I think there’s quite a few more missing variables from WoW’s “glory days” than just Metzen, it’s idiotic to think that he alone could change the narrative drastically.

Maybe in The Last Titan or after the trilogy, maybe that’s the timeline here.

2 Likes
6

Ngl, that’s very on-point.

7

fell for it again award then again i was pretty vocal that i didn’t expect any change when they showed him on stage

3 Likes
8

Then you were arguably making up something in your head that wasn’t ever true.

I don’t know what a “return to form” under him was supposed to be in your mind but you don’t seem to know what he had his signature on in the first place, since Metzen alone [in broad strokes] is in large parts the guy behind;

  • The massively disliked story elements and directional changes in Diablo III
  • The massively disliked story elements and directional changes in StarCraft II
  • The massively disliked story elements and directional changes in Cataclysm

Now, I love all of those. And I loved the kind of storytelling and creative ideas he brought to all of them. Because I’m personally not looking for something grounded, I’m looking for fantasy. I love his heartfelt, compartmentalized stories.

Such as Thrall’s fracturing in Cataclysm.

For some reason, players seem to forget how ostracized Chris Metzen was in the 2010’s.

Diablo III’s discourse saw Metzen dragged over the coals for the way that the story left its grounded roots to a more cartoony presentation. StarCraft II’s controversy seen to its narrative included both the additions of a much more prevalent cosmic threat and less focus on grounded stories, as well as a love story in the midst of all of this [which we’ve learned in recent years was inspired by his own divorce being projected between Jim and Sarah, see Scott Johnson’s interview(s) with Metzen]. In Cataclysm the “Green Jesus” situation was like the third strike in regard to player contempt for Metzen, with the moniker potentially driving home how sick players really were.

We’ve arguably gotten exactly what was advertised with his return.

I’m not saying that frustrations with the present situation or stories aren’t warranted either, I’m just saying that …

… what we have right now couldn’t be more Chris Metzen.

Big bombastic, comic book inspired ideas; bigger looming cosmic threats; cliff-hangers; heartfelt stories [unity, reconciliation etc]; cartoonish villains and stakes and so on. This is precisely on brand.

2 Likes
9

This is the pure effect of fanlore brainrot, that I denounce here for years now.
Let me detail:

Arguably the truest statement from your rant, Light is no more “Good” alignement (Void for “Bad”)

Now Light is “Objective-Rational” alignement (Void for “subjective-irrational-mad”).

Fel is no more a kind of Shadow (since Chronicles t1), it is “Chaos”, and so on.

That’s it, and to be honest, I genuinely find this version interesting, or at least, as interesting as the Vanilla version.
(And I still defend the Vanilla lore and its right to be its own thing under a Reboot - hello Classic+)

I understand the silly cartoon cliché because we had Zovaal.
But I still think Xal’atath’s motives are quite clear yet: she wants to claim the Worldsould, and so she uses the Sunwell’s ancient Nexus as entrance to the manifold.
It’s not that deep!

Not true, if you actually do the quests’ story instead of reviewing some other players/youtuber’s feelings.

Indeed Amani and BE somehow have a truce, yet not absolute and not “hippie”-like at all.
The only hippie moment was how fast Liadrin (1 individual (+the player character if Elf)) was able to get Zul’Jarra’s sympathy.

Not the best race - but WAY better than the baseless Dracthyrs and the infamously absurd Void Elves. At least, they SHOULD exist, as an extinct race, or as we get them, the living fossil of what we know for long (elves and trolls kinship).

True.

I agree about the unnecessary Sylvanas moment also.

Incorrect - in the NE (former) starting zone, you’ll learn Moonwells are actively CREATED by kaldorei with HYJAL WATERS. I’m not kidding (:exploding_head: )

Literally Aln’hara’s song we hear about for hours of quests again but ok…

I’m not even here to defend Metzen and the devs direction, but you missed so much important points or maybe you chose in advance to dislike the direction, that biases your opinion.

I for one am surely biased because I was the only lunatic here to predict a Quel’Thalas-based Expac.
They gave me what I asked.
I could have complained if it were truly nonsensical. I was absolutely worried of how bad it could turn if done awkwardly.
But I must be honest: to this day, Midnight is an absolute banger imo.
Even reviving the dark lore about Ula’Tek is neat, and a proof Metzen still has a coherent idea about ‘his’ world.

Not anyone has to be happy, sure.
But with the respectful treatment of Quel’Thalas and Zul Aman, I can forgive the cringe Sylvanas moment, and focus on the positive part where she tells “Lol okay the Shadowlands are bullcrap and we’ll retcon that a bit, I mean, Shadowlands are not what they seem.”

1 Like
10

For Liadrin it makes sense to try to mend a rift, as she knows very well how good the Darkspears are as Allies.

But there is zero reason why the Bloodelves and Amani shouldn’t outright hate each other. What we see ingame isn’t how any realistic grudge, not even to mention generational hatred, would look like.

It’s a watered down version of a watered down version at this point.

The only one showing somewhat reasonable hatred for the Elves is Zul’jan… And he will sadly get escorted out pretty soon for that.

Idk if you are joking or serious. If it is the latter, I question your taste. The Void Elves and Dracthyr MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE than the Haranir. Simply from an objective PoV alone.

You seem easily impressed then.

You can’t be serious! The Bloodelves lost basically all of their edge. The Amani are anything but bloodthirsty savages…

You are basically acting like some house cat is a fierce predator that endangers humans lives. That’s how disconnected it is.

I really recommend you to actually go an replay the old content.

1 Like
11

I am not a super huge lore player. However, I believe changes can happen, even in ancient races like the Elves.

Plus, I think that the game needs to proceed in a direction. It cannot be a costant complaint for everything that does not stay the same guys- -

12

Additionally, I would argue a lot of players are currently missing the forest for the trees.

In order to have impactful conflict, I’d posit it needs to stem from something. There’s no purpose nor stake to war if there’s no peace to counter-balance it. This is especially true in the Warcraft mythos seeing as how the races require a degree of amicability and a shared foundation since we as players require a shared foundation, regardless of faction.

Right now, we’re watching a new foundation being put in place. One without cracks.

Yet.

Everyone’s seemingly getting along, unthinkable allies cooperating, old rivalries put to rest and new allegiances being forged; once hard lines in the sand are blurred and erased …

Hmm—it’s almost like it’s being set up for failure.

13

…could you elaborate on that? “Everything is going perfectly, that’s why it’s going to go wrong” by itself doesn’t sound very salient to me. If we’re building a new fundament without faultlines, how, specifically, would you imagine a possible break? And do you think it along the same faction lines we have now, or do you think they are preparing something new?

Apart from that, taking more than half a decade to build that fundament, without clearly hinting the change of direction to come, and still expecting the audience to stay interested would be a pretty bold move. I’m certainly not the only one that would experience it not as setup and payoff, but as failure and backtrack, even if it were to happen now. Putting that much trust in the patience of the audience in a mass medium like Warcraft sounds like a conceptual failure in itself.

14

Who said anything about the foundation being without fault lines?

That we can’t conceive of them at the moment doesn’t mean they’re not necessarily going to be highly present or presented moving forward. I’m not omniscient, I don’t know about you.

I prefer to be open, excited and optimistic about the future.

We have Ziadan and Vidious in the Voidstorm revelling in having chosen the Alliance and the Horde respectively and the potential carnage the two sides can unleash upon each other, constantly taunting the players regarding these old rivalries and how easily we can be persuaded and led [astray or not] to old habits.

More than a third of the Voidstorm map is dedicated to open-world Player v. Player content.

Ziadan has been my nemesis for countless ages. We vie for dominion over Slayer’s Rise in glorious, irresistible tide of bloodshed.

We have nearly destroyed each other many times. Large swaths of land has traded hands between us many times.

Such a delightful game. I would not have it any other way.

:speech_balloon: < Ask Vidious how they brought the Alliance here. >

Oh, simply through powers we domanaar are feared for. We may slip into other worlds and pluck combatants from whence we please. The willing ones are rarest, but the most entertaining…

Azeroth has been… “off-limits,” for some time now. When Xal’atath overthrew us, that changed.

Ziadan and I took an immediate interest in the Horde and Alliance. I sought out the most bloodthirsty, most furious members of the Alliance I could find. Those willing to abandon the fight to save Azeroth from the Void merely for a chance to slay the Horde.

I was delighted at how many I found.

So, they are here willingly. They fight in my name, willingly. And I relish in it.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vidious

And they’ve supposedly forgotten? Hmm.

Meanwhile, we’re seeing them doubling down on anything and everything that has to do with separation of the red and blue. We can use Housing as a prime example, including upcoming and datamined assets that solely perpetuate the Alliance and the Horde.

I’m not suggesting everyone’s going to consider whatever is coming next to be the greatest masterpiece to have ever touched the Earth, but I am suggesting that they are quite obviously pushing these allegiances so hard because they’re meant to be broken.

15

I don’t expect you to know, but if you actually think it possible in any real sense I’d expect you to be able to have some informed speculation. I certainly could, it’s just that any way I could come up with sounds either implausible or undesirable (or both) to me. And I am of the conviction that if we players collectively can’t come up with any good ideas (usually more than one), that the writing team won’t be able to, either. Since you seemed certain that were were ways, I was interested to see what you had in mind, but well, “trust the plan” by itself is way less interesting.

16

I am certain there are ways because I do not—in my opinion, arrogantly—believe to be all-knowing. I imagine there are thousands of incredible stories to be made I could never conjure up myself, for World of Warcraft or otherwise.

And I am, as mentioned, ever excited and optimistic about what the team might be doing.

17

That’s kind of the point though. “There are ways” is a knowledge claim. You exclude the possibility of there being none, for no reason that I can see, but faith in the writing team that I, among others, just don’t share. “I can’t see a way” is just stating a current lack of knowledge.

18

I’d posit it isn’t. It’s being open to the possibility. You’re arguably saying there’s isn’t a way, definitively. That lest you and the handful of players [supposedly that ever could or would join such discussions] could conceive of “good” story …

… neither could the writers.

To which I’m suggesting and commenting that I consider that to be an extremely arrogant position.

Meanwhile, I’m saying both scenarios are entirely possible. They might, or they might not.

And that I am choosing to be optimistic about what the future holds.

19

…you find it extremely arrogant to think it plausible enough to be personally convinced, that if thousands to millions of players can’t come up with an explanation, the writing team won’t be, either? I’m obviously not suggesting logical necessity here, but I fail to see anything wrong with it as a method of judging plausibility and forming convictions accordingly.

If that is arrogant, most convictions even reasonable people hold certainly qualify for the same lable. Any conviction you stated here certainly would.

I’m open to the possibility. That’s why I asked you, as part of the collective imagination of the playerbase I was invoking, to make it plausible to me.

1 Like
20

I find various aspects of such a position and statement to be extremely arrogant.

Are you suggesting you’ve read the theories of “thousands to millions of players” [as you put it yourself] to be able to say—with certainty—that there hasn’t been a single story suggestion written anywhere that could have potential for you or the writing team?

Because that’s arguably, fundamentally, what you’ve written.

As I read you, that’s what you’re saying you’re personally convinced of. That’s an arrogant position, in my opinion. And to me, that reads as someone that wouldn’t be open to a story either. Sadly. Simply by how that view and that argument is presented, if nothing else.

But there’s naturally nothing wrong with it.

Not entirely sure where you’ve got the impression I’ve said it’s wrong.

If you had written: “So far, I haven’t read a suggestion that would make sense for me as for how the factions could return to a setting of war or conflict […]” that’d be a different thing.

Yet, I’d suggest that is a far cry from what you’ve been saying. You, not me, pulled the number of “thousands to millions of players” into your argument, and how the lack of an explanation by these supposedly thousands to a million players play into your conviction that there’s not a way forward.