More dungeons and loot in feautures expansions

Seems like blizzard is accomodated to launch every expansion with 8 dungeons and ending the same(megadungeon is exception,because it feels like a raid with 5 people).Legion had one more dungeon added in every big patch(CoEN from Tomb of Sargeras patch and from Argus we hade SoT dungeon)after legion there was no more dung added to any new patch and Legion had also megadungeon(Karazan).
Why there isn’t created more storyes during patches to end up in new dungeons?
And why we have now so less loot in dung,i mean you df dung with 4 bosses and 4 loot,this is garbage,the story for the next patches is irrelevant,the loot is the same,we should have more loot to chose in dungeons,even BC and Wrath exp. give more loot in dungeons.
As Zaqul quotes:Open youre eyes!

Because designing in building those dungeons takes a lot of time?
And with them being reused in mythic+ seasons, I don’t see the point of adding even more dungeons, especially if you’re going to tie them to the story.

DPS already has horrible queues for dungeons, and you want them to suffer more through it to finish the story?

Not all the dungeon need to be tied to leveling story campaign,some dung story can come with new patches,the fact that people are staying inqueue too much is not new,more mythic plus dungeons,why not ,i see nothing bad in this,also remind you heroic dung in queue are to help you gearing nothing else,gearing is not a problem anymore.The fakt that some people like you are not agree that is fine,i temain to my oppinion.

Designing takes a lot of time? Was this always the case? WoW now has largest dev team ever so I dont know if this is valid.

Story in dungeons, long DPS qeues…last time I qeued for dungeon as DPS to do a quest or finish a zone storyline I got almost instant qeue via follower dungeons so this point does not stand either.

Its more like a choice between “lets make new dungeons that MAY earn more money via game/time purchase” vs. “lets make 4 mounts and 5 uniques transmog sets and pets in store that WILL earn some money”. Opportunity cost, its simply not worth it to make more dungeons, thats why we dont get new more raids either.

World of Warcraft has probably the largest team, but not everyone of that team is working on, or responsible for the dungeons. That’s still a dedicated sub-team inside the entire development process, same for quests, same for raids and what not.

All these things are handled by dedicated teams, and you can’t expand a team indefinitely either without running into other problems.

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I don’t know the answer to that question, maybe it has to do with M+.
But what I can say is that I’m fine with the change. I’m not the biggest dungeon fan and I think 8 dungeons per expansion is plenty. And also; I don’t like it when dungeons are tied to (or worse: gating) the main story. The worst offense of that was in BfA when the main alliance campaign was gated through a MYTHIC ONLY dungeon. That was completely and utterly crossing a line, imo.

As for loot; I haven’t noticed honestly.

Its their internal problem, not mine. Any team costs money and this money can be invested into any specific team.

So what you are saying is that if you have 4 people designing swimsuits as cosmetic reward then you are screwed because they just have to do it and you cant make more dungeons because it would cost money by hiring more people into “dungeon team”?

This makes 0 sense from business point of view. Designing 10 instead of 8 dungeons at launch is not called “expand team indefinitely”, thats called a hyperbole. You can create another dedicated team, in reality they do it all the time, blizz cancels a game or two, devours one or two other game studios, merges developers etc. This happens all the time, its all about opportunity costs. Store items make more money so instead of ingame content they divert resources (call it money, man days, FTE, whatever you like) into what makes more money - it has almost nothing to do with “story tied to dungeons” (thats nonsense, this problem does not exist anymore) and it has nothing to do with team size.

If their internal data showed they can get away with just 6 dungeons and making twice as many cosmetic store items they would do it that way, make more money and you would still be here defending them.

Tell me you don’t know how running/managing teams work without telling me.

Has been explained in the past already, cosmetics and things that go on the trading post specifically are considered a “free moment” inside the entire WoW development cycle, and someone anyone can do when they are in the mood for it and have time for it.

This makes perfect sense from a business point of view.
Because you need to strike a balance between the amount of hours that are going to be invested here agains the the return of investment and load/responsibility on the team that will be doing the work.

A team has a certain capacity on how much they work they can handle. And if you think that just throwing one or two more people into a new team is going to solve the problem, then you’ve never lead, mentored or trained new people on a team, because the average lead time for someone to become even remotely useful in a new project is around 6 months. That’s 6 months that two people aren’t contributing to your 10 dungeons AT BEST.

And throwing another complete team at it?
Good luck getting all that synchronized between the teams, tested, pass QA, deployed and reviewed, not to mention the amount of additional assets that needs to be maintained, because coding a dungeon and actually designing a dungeon or creating the assets for it? Three different and distinct roles that need to work together.

And why would the game design put on our shoulder when they are payed to make the game,while we pay them aswell,we don’t win any money from the game,they do.I think they don’t want to do too much stuffs in the game unless is all about sub. number,they know that making the game better for us will bring them more money and is a good business,make sense to hire more people and to do multiple expac and unlock different rewards even if they cannot make everyone happy,because will not bee happy about something in the game.I want more dung ,every patch but it will not happen,not developing new lore is a problem,because they will do if wow goes worse,but the problem i think is the economy.
I think they want to balance the expansion with the number of subscr,as everything will depend on the numbers,sometimes is important to keep a good number of players active in game,this is why mediocre means middle,not bad but also not the best but enough to please many.

I can’t say anything other than the 8 DungeonS per expansion is pretty cheap for such a Company.

The revenue that they got from selling pets-mount and only , could easily create WoW 2… not 1 or 2 extra dungeons **

Let’s see the issue .

1st off all Creating a dungeon is quite easy .
Why is easy ? If you have the tools everything become easy .
I made quite a few mods for several games from Spellforce,Final Fantasy to Baldurs gate , including contribution with new Skins-Skills+Visuals for others :slight_smile: . (At some point i was enjoying fixing bugs/error:)

People don’t understand that once you have the tool=Program=engine you can literally teach a guy with zero Idea and within few months could create Miracles.

So how a multi billionaire company doesn’t have the resource to put a team of 7-10 people that within 3-6 months could easily create 4-5 dungeons is quite amusing .

There are 10 expansions and majority of the skills are already re-used skills with just minor-major different cast-visual-effect .

Majority of the npc Models are already re-used skin …even the pets-mounts you buy for 20-30 Euro…

Not talking that the whole Dungeons are not even close to the Level of Classic until Wotlk .
Imagine in 2002-4 for Classic they made dungeons with 4-12 bosses and they were amazing …
Right now …3 to max 4 bosses for dungeons . A 12 min fast run …and that’s All that WoW can offer in the technology advanced era of 2024…
No wonder they started with Classic wow…tbc and so on…

more and more “dungeons” are reused quest/story areas to a great degree or in their entirety, a trend that really took off in Legion.

I would say if it were not for that blatant cost-saving tactics, eight would be fine, but because of the route they have chosen, the formulaic 8 per expansion should raise eyebrows

It already does,every patch will bring one raid and one or two different reputation to farm but is already too much used,game needs some variation,most of people are not even farming reputation anymore because rewards are not based on races,most of people log in to do keystone and raids and pvp.The route they taken since bfa with 8 dung,one raid per patch and always new rep to farm will cause troubles in future if they won’t change that.Once you hit max rep within a patch with one char what then?Except the new raid and mythic plus there is nothing else to do but infinitte farming.Wow races have lost theyre identity,everything is forced to faction,Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor and his denizens are butchered ,forgotton and left to rot,and we develop always new zone while Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom are still in classic era.What is with Outland now after so much time we have yet no answers and probably will never have one.