Love to get into any dungeon on 391 Dh Blood Elf Tank just to experience it! HAve 397 DH NE Tank as not levelled anything else with all prunings etc. Left Warrior and Unholy/Frost DK alone for that reason. Sure I can read up on all dungeons spend hours watching videos for perfect routes, watch MDI and see how bad they were at M19 considering they were supposed to be good at this key lol! Die res hit motherlode bomb die rez bomb on a druid lol lol. So how to get good is to join communities coz lack of guild recruitment on ED Terenas for horde. I got given an Ally Guild on another server but onlm me and alts play it so dead and cannot get even 5 on at once. Would love to play and experience some end content but WQ and warfronts it is
Sure, remove all affixes too.
Actually let’s just remove all the mobs and the end boss is now just a weekly chest instead.
The timer is there for a reason. Stop it.
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Yeah and I don’t want to play with people who do that a lot so Blizz, gimme.
Until then, raider io it is.
If Blizzard ever decides to implement something like that, pugging will die off. Then you won’t be able to play with people.
No, why would it? Plenty games have leaver protection.
How do these systems work then? And no, the dungeon finder heroic system is not suitable.
They make it harder for leavers to find groups. What’s the issue with seeing how many M+ keys someone has left in the LFG ? You have nothing to worry about unless you leave a lot, case in which that’s exactly the type of player I don’t want to play with.
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The issue with these type of system is that you have to create a ruleset which also provides for the possibility of a legitimate leave as high key groups often do.
For example: How do you differentiate between me using a hearthstone during a key that is lost while I play with 4 friends of mine and me doing the same in a random group?
This type of system might work for a system where you simply join the dungeon as it is for the heroic version but the LFG-Tool is a completely different beast because you cannot allow a bigger ratio of false positives then maybe 1% here. And that is the reason why such a system might work for a specific use case in theory but since you rarely can judge intention in an automatic way you have to make a choice which path is likely to create the least amount of trouble for the players.
I think if the statistics would show a significant amount of aborted runs with a single player leaving the group a certain amount of time before the rest of the group while the characters are placed inside the dungeon then there would be a reaction to this.
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The best solution is…as mentioned many times: guilds,communities,friends and etc.
The 2nd best solution is: To never…never…NEEEEEEEEVER put too much faith in pug groups. When I put up my key. I put it up fully being aware aware and prepared that the healer will “DC”, tank will overpull and “blame the healer/dps and leave”.
Maybe…if the WoW Gods are merciful, the run will actually get timed.
If you enter the pug world with this mindset then seeing your wrecked key will be a lot less painful.(if you even bother to pug and ignore suggestion number 1).
What is funny is that you think doing more runs = greater personal experience.
I actually have 4 chars I play this expac. So you looking up one of them and trying to whip out your epeen is hilarious.
People that do this tend to have low self esteem, so perhaps think about a valid response in future instead of attacking someone based on logs.
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If your cat is choking and you need to leave you’ll have 1 leave not 50.
If you frequently have to go for whatever reason I personally don’t want to do keys with you. Legitimate or not, I don’t wanna risk my time.
You are not getting the point.
A lot of groups who have the goal to finish a certain key on a certain level will not finish a dungeon if things go wrong. They do that to not waste their time and play the key one level below the current level (because a key finished in time will almost always result in a higher score, even 1-2 levels below the targeted level). A +17 in time will result in a way higher score compared to a +18 with 5 minutes above the timer.
Let us be very clear here: This is a decision of the whole group which is discussed in the (voice) chat before.
If you are in a random group and decide to leave on your own then that is exactly the behavior people are complaining about and I agree that this behavior is not okay.
The big question is which factors one can pull to differentiate between these behaviors and my point is that this is very hard and very expensive to do since a rule set which aims at just punishing players will also punish players who are behaving properly. If we follow this logic you basically have to proof intension and I do not see how to do that.
I repeat: This is not a problem with a simple solution, even if we prohibit groups from leaving dungeons earlier.
As an example: Let us say you punish a player with a 1 hour ban of using the LFG tool if the player is violating one of the following rules:
- The player used his hearthstone in a running mythic+ dungeon
- The player left a running m+ dungeon through the entrance
- The player left the group in a running mythic+ dungeon
- A player which enters the state of “AwayFromKeyboard” is removed from the group
This rule set will destroy groups who cannot complete a certain part of a dungeon. I have played with less skilled players who simply gave up on the sisters in Waycrest Manor for example because the group was unable to kill the boss on the specific key level (yes, that happens).
As a game developer you do not want to prohibit those players from leaving the dungeon and playing another key. Therefore you need a better more specific rule set / combination of rules and this is where the problem begins because now people will be able to figure out ways to circumvent these rules.
But for the sake of the argument we can add rules to restrict the above stated set:
5. Rule 1-4 are active as long as the timer runs
This is a less restrictive set because it allows a group to not finish the key after the timer ran out. On one hand this will make it less attractive for players to leave keys early (which is also a time waste for them as well as for the group) and it will force groups to stay in a dungeon for a particular amount of time… which is a waste of time if the group itself has no desire or capability to finish the dungeon.
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Put in a vote to destroy the key. Has to be unanimous.
How about just letting ppl choose at the start of a key if they want to try doing the dungeon with a timer or not? Problem solved ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Actually this forced timer is very unforgiving for new players that are trying to learn the dungeons and affixes.
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That’s the point. What exactly is the challenge of M+ if you can just wipe 500 times and get the loot/key ?
Well for those that are still learning the affixes and dungeons, it would be better if they could choose if they wanted to start the timer or not.
I mean if they choose to not start the timer the key would just be depleted, so it would be the same as the timer just running out.
The only difference would be a little less pressure and that newer players could focus on not standing in sanguine pools etc instead of watching the timer slowly depleting for the whole run
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//10 chars
That is something that should have been learned while people push their keys to +10.
But i know this is a fault in the game in general, people get showered is so much high ilvl free gear that the lower level M+ is never a threat, and they jump straight into 10’s.
But at the same time, i learned the dungeons at launch, where there wasn’t as much high ilvl free gear, and worked my way up from there. And as the keys overtimer became a higher and higher level, new mechanics started to matter.
Is it fair on me, or anyone really, that some people decide, no, i don’t need the learning proces, i can start at +10 for example.
+10 Is not where you learn basic dungeon mechanics, that should be done in M0.
Sanguine Is a +4 Affix, so if you don’t know how the affix works, what are you doing in a say, +12.
The only affix that is new, and you need to learn to handle at +10 Should be reaping, if it isn’t, it means you’ve skipped something, and you can’t expect others to wait on you because of it.
But again, i also realise this is a fault in the game in general, that you can get so geared, that the only way to get upgrades, is doing 10’s or HC/Mythic raid, yet at that point, never having set a foot in M+ or Raids. And that is something Blizzard should adress.
While i support catch up gear ect. It should come from content where you learn the basics.
Say you hit 120, get a q to do 4 HC’s -> Get some 360 Loot, Get a new Q to do some mythics and LFR -> Get some 380 Loot -> New Q for some M+ and Normal raid -> Get 390 Loot. That in my opinion is a far better catch up system, and will hopefully teach someone the basics, rather than the, oh, Warfronts up, don’t worry, you can’t loose, but you’ll still get 400 loot -.-
Yeah, I agree with most of what you are saying.
And I aswell did the same, completed the dungeons on lower key levels before aiming higher.
But still I think ppl should be able to choose if they want to start a timer or not, as i said if they’d choose to not start a timer the keystone would be depleted and its just the same as the timer running out. Realy its a change that would improve quality of life, learning process and communication, as ppl signing up for grps that would state they are not going for the timer would stick to through the end instead of leaving after one wipe
And with a simple change like this you’d be solving so many problems instead of creating more.
If its the same, then whats the point of what you are suggesting. You can already state in description something like “even if not on time”
And then ignore there is a countdown on your screen?