Or maybe, just maybe, rise is actually the only one being as difficult as it should.
This season was a blast for those who can barely play their class. Was the easiest season to get all the portals, was the easiest season ever to get to 15s, and the list can continue.
20s are currently the end game, considering they match the criteria : Max loot ilvl + max weekly value. What’s the point of having myth track value when a 20 feels 3 times easier than the raid on mythic?
Maybe people should stop complaining that the content is too hard, and start thinking that maybe they are not as good as they think they are.
its not that they are specifily lookign for there is just sooo many players doing those keys due to how easy this season is that ofc competition is wild.
i just started to do +20 last reset and im geting ton ton ton of declines. but its ok i will just do my own keys this week plus im in no hurry have like 3 months of crests and GV upgrades in front of me untill cata classic lands
havent dont +20 since SL and its shocking how easy this season is compared to those
honestly +20 this season feels like +15 in S1 / S2 of SL .
it shows in raider io stats too - it was shocking to me to see that on my DH 2k score is light green not even blue color - this shows how many people are doing higher keys because of how tunign is.
and imo its feel really really good. they did very good job with tunignb.
its just that all dungeons are garbage and unfun to do
I find Murozond quite funny dungeon, different from the pack … with harder mobs, careful pulls, and precision-requiring bosses. I like it as palate cleanser after madhouses of pulling like Everbloom or ToT.
Too bad no one wants to watch MDI anymore, otherwise they’d get publically embaressed by the dungeon layout and design so adjustments would follow quicker. A whole season of this garbage dungeon is too much.
The balance is poor, some classes do unbelievably more damage, can dps better while dealing with mechanics, can survive better, have more utility. As a result it’s clear there is a strong meta preference. I mean I play an Arms Warrior, I’m screwed on multiple fronts and literally nobody wants to invite one, thankfully I don’t pug much.
But it just so happens that getting geared from M+, getting KSM and even unlocking a 20vault is not as brutal as it was in the past, it’s way easier. You see very low performing/geared/both players doing 15 keys, and this group of dungeons for the most part can be “winged”. It’s not like for example Sanguine Depths, De Other Side, Plaguefall where every pull and every boss had something that was about 99-100% certain to kill a player who didn’t know, and often enough even if they did…
So it’s just easier, and when it’s easier it’s more popular. Just like raiding in Classic.
Why do people keep saying that? Its not true and data shows otherwise.
Dont confuse YOUR spec not being meta, with an oppressive meta.
Let me remind you where we were in S2 with Exodia… THAT was bad balance.
Right now, we are really close to good balance in S3. Keys 20 and below there is practically equal balance in representation for all specs and classes.
That is completely false. What happens is that there are a ton of players with more io thank you queuing for 20s. And especially from your stat “16 timed dungeons 20+”. That is a red flag for me when I have to choose DDs.
So do more 20s basically. Start by doing the ones you already did to make your “CV” more attractive and stop complaining about class balance.
If its so much easier, why is it that the top M+ keys are ~ the same as today (arround 30s). If we (the plebs) used to be doing 15s and now 20s, then the pros that were doing 30s should be doing 35s. If you get what I mean.
Or maybe the answer is: M+ has become more accessible. Which does not necessarily mean “easier”. And so people play it.
No it does not, stop pulling things out of your rear. The performance difference between specs is gigantic and hilarious, spec popularity is another thing but it’s no surprise that 2 of the strongest specs in the game Havoc and BM are also the two most popular by a landslide.
I’ve been running 20s for several weeks, I don’t need to take time off work to play the game more to try to get invited to pug keys by being more overqualified. I will just play with my friends. Nobody is inviiting a Warrior to a key if they have the option to invite a Meta class, I’ve seen it happen in every group I have played in.
You gonna invite an Arms Warrior over a Mage? Give me a break, you’re believing a fantasy.
Or maybe the dungeons got easier. I didn’t get better at the game over the years, I never had such an easy time in my life to time high keys. The dungeon tuning at +20 is effectively where a 15 was in the past, and the dungeons in this pool are way easier than for example, Shadowlands dungeons.
I dont pull stuff out of my rear. Are you even looking at the stats in Raider IO?
But I will indulge in this game… OK… So DH and BM are the most popular all of a sudden because they are FOTM? OK…
Lets take a look at keys “20 and up”. Why that and not “ALL keys” or “25 and up” because the first option basically every spec is equally represented. And 25 and up only the hard core meta is. And there is always 1 every season. 20 and up is the sweet-spot.
For BM hunter, its funny that you mention this because right now its representation sits at 12.2%. However, closer inspection we see that MM and SH are both practically 0%. BUT, in S2 when hunter was FAR from the meta, we see BM sit at 5.6%, MM at 4.8% and SH at 1.8%.
And there are similar results from S1.
So basically, comparing “meta OP” in S3 with “trash” in S2 the overall number of players is the same, its just that all the hunter mains re-specked to BM. But what is funny is that the % of population of hunters remains the same.
And if we were to check +25 and up for S3 instead of +20 and up, we see that BM hunters literally dissapear. So even though they do some serious slaping, they are far from being “meta”.
And the same can be said for DH. However, the same data also shows that ret pala is the most popular spec by far. Its always either #1, or at a minimum top 5 most played specs. We can argue that in S1 they were a bit meta, but NOT in S2 and S3. So its weird that during the hight of “exodia” metacomp of S2, THE most played spec is Ret Paladin…
In fact, its FAR from being meta right now but it still sits at #3 most popular. Please answer me what is going on with “trash tier” ret palas all of a sudden?
So tell me again:
After having taken the time to write down the data I see (which you could have checked if you were not so lazy), tell me again this:
If BM (hunters in general) and DH, and Ret palas have ALWAIS been top 3 picks, meta or not… then why would there be a relationship now?
I mean… yes… specs that slap do see more representation that’s for sure. But not much more compared to the “background” representation.
If you dont want to PuG and only play with friends is a legitimate choice. Even meta specs sometimes dont want to deal with the drama, and its fair. But blaming “not being invited to PuGs” for that, is lame.
You did not read what I said before: You are underqualified. And the suggestions I said were to get just “qualified”. Let me put it this way: They wont invite YOU because there is a afliction warlock (forget about mages) with more XP than you, or a ret pala or DK.
Has nothing to do with meta mages.
Want proof that I know what im talking about? Check out my warrior Zavia-Uldum.
I know exactly what im talking about. And I know exactly why I dont get invited to keys, even though it sais “main has 3290 rio”. Meanwhile, if you ckeck some 25s I did last week, half of them are with warriors. Because they actually slap.
In SL max dungeons acheived were in the range of 30 to 33. Which is ~ the same for S1, S2 and from what were seeing, S3 as well.
So I ask you again:
And you can see that data in Raider IO rankings. Its public.
You need to stop looking at popularity trend charts and start looking at some damage meters. You just wrote an essay on the semantics of class populity to hide from the fact that we’re talking about spec performance.
Don’t dodge.
I disagree with your opinion and you’re wrong. But you’re also missing the point, there is no smoke without fire, considering we have youtube videos, reddit threads, discord discussions, forum posts all talking about this topic, all of them meming the impossibility of getting invites as non-meta spec, especially as Warriors, you’re just completely tone deaf here.
If we take 50 signups all the same RIO score, all the same experience, all the same ilvl, who are you going to take? You wouldn’t take the Warrior even if he was overqualified, when you can choose a class that brings more damage and utility.
And that’s why nobody will invite Warriors. Every Warrior with a 25 key done, has a team, a guild, a social circle or friend group. Swap to playing a Mage, an Aug, a BM hunter, a Havoc… Suddenly we’re having a better time?
What that means is: Mage DPS performance >>> Warrior DPS performance, THEREFORE: There are more mages doing keys than warriors. And I just proved that NO. In fact that is not the case.
That is literally what you said about BM and DH. But lets talk about ret for a minute:
What popularity means is: There are people that like to play ret, even if they dont slap as hard. And they keep playing ret even if its not meta because they still get invited to keys and manage to play the game at whatever level they choose.
Therefore, ret representation is high. But same could be said about warrior.
I have seen WAY to many damage meters of DHs dashing into swirlies and eating every frontal on the planet. Or BM hunters being so ridiculously squishy anything will kill them…
OR, I could go to Warcraft Logs and check what the best of the best the plate do in DPS. And use that to compare. But lets be honest… who plays at those levels? Do you upload your runs to warcraft logs? Or maybe, its just the most dedicated players that use that info to analyze their own gameplay.
So logs are always skewed towards the top. So why look?
I will tell you who: In my comp of Ret + Monk or Rogue + Monk, I would take a warrior. Hands down. +5% AP to all 3 DDs… plus the tank… and monk +5% physical damage… YES PLEASE… amazing synergy right there.
Screw the mages.
I cant stop repeating: HALF of my runs are with warriors… Look up my history. PLEASE…
I have participated in those discussions many times. And I cant stop saying that people confuse they personal skill with “skill”.
You might be top dog warrior. But if you dont have the rio to prove it its worth nothing.
And people that have timed 17s all of a sudden want to get invites to 20s. Or people that refuse to network even a small bit and treat PuGs as if they were NPCs suddenly are surprised that he is treated as an NPC in turn.
I can link you up 1000 posts about it. And all 1000 people complaining are people 100% like you. With 16 timed 20s. Which is NOTHING. You literally did 16 dungeons in 7 weeks of the season. So 0.3 dungeons per day more or less, with guild and friends.
Why would I ever invite a person like that to my runs? There are literally thousands of warriors with 50+ dungeons.
And I will repeat that once again: There are THOUSANDS of warriors (not mages, not meta specs) with more RIO than you. Why would I invite YOU (warrior A) over that guy (warrior B)?
That on top of having played more than you, has farmed the raid more than you and has the leggo?
Because this is a “made up” falacy:
Never happens. And definitely not with you.
My point being here: If YOU have made the legitimate choice to not put down the effort in M+, then DO NOT be surprised when others that did are given preference over you.
In other words: Its a fair choice to say you had other things to do other than swet M+ keys. 100% fair and legitimate. But then DO NOT be surprised when people that did swet M+ are taken over you.
plus im in no hurry have like 3 months of crests and GV upgrades in front of me untill cata classic lands 
